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Scrabulous Returns To Facebook, As Wordscraper

Posted by timothy on from the annoying-but-beats-years-of-court dept.

porcupine8 writes "Good news for those that have had a hole in their heart (and Facebook profile) since Hasbro forced Facebook to remove Scrabulous over copyright and trademark issues. The creators of Scrabulous have wasted no time in tweaking the game and have launched a new tile-based game called Wordscraper. In addition to changing the name, they have changed the board look so as not to directly copy the colors, etc of a Scrabble board, and have even made provisions for players to create their own board layout! Interested Scrabulous fans can add the application now. Only time will tell if the changes were extensive enough to keep Hasbro's lawyers at bay."

49 of 262 comments (clear)

  1. Copyright broken by fluffykitty1234 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is a pretty good example of broken copyright laws. How long has Scrabble been out, 60 years? And because of the crazy long copyright terms now, innovation is being stifled. This is not what copyright was intended for...

    1. Re:Copyright broken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not copyright. Trademark infringement. Entirely different legal structure...

    2. Re:Copyright broken by lgw · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, copyright too. You can't copyright the idea of how you play the game, but you can copyright the board artwork. Of course, you can significantly aletr the board artwork so that it's different enough to avoid copyright infringement without changing how the game is played. Most game ripoffs do just this.

      Sadly, the Scrabulous guys didn't take this step, and they could still be facing a lot of trouble over that. The new game solves this problem - guess they finally bothered to care what minimal steps they needed to take to be legal.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    3. Re:Copyright broken by geobeck · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How long has Scrabble been out, 60 years? And because of the crazy long copyright terms now, innovation is being stifled.

      If you define 'innovation' as copying someone else's idea in almost every detail.

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    4. Re:Copyright broken by stonecypher · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You can't copyright the idea of how you play the game, but you can copyright the board artwork.

      There is nothing broken about this. At all. This is, in fact, exactly as it should be. Otherwise, all someone would have to do to duplicate my game would be to change the title.

      Game designs and rules are unprotected. Titles, presentation, artwork and appearances are protected. This is ideal. No brokenness here.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    5. Re:Copyright broken by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're claiming a failure to trademark or copyright chess or shogi implies trademark or copyright is broken?

      As for the "why no knockoff Scrabble", it's because people don't want to play a knockoff, they want to play Scrabble. If you want a proper example...
      Witness the multitude of playing cards available; every single one is interchangeable, but each one is still protected by trademark.

      --

      GPL Deconstructed
    6. Re:Copyright broken by Mistshadow2k4 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No brokenness? You can't copy a game that you played before you turned ten when you're an old man, and you say that's not broken? That's ridiculous! At this rate, everything in our culture now will still be copyrighted/trademarked when our great-grandchildren are adults and we're long in our graves. Copyrights were not meant to be extended across generations. They were meant to protect innovators for part of their lives to generate income, not grant a corporation a monopoly on part of our culture for 6 decades.

      --
      I dream of a better world... one in which chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.
    7. Re:Copyright broken by stonecypher · · Score: 4, Informative

      so, who owns chess, and who owns shogi?

      Nobody, just like Shakespeare and The Odessey. A basic familiarity with the law might help you here. Nobody ever filed for or was granted protection on those items, and if they had been, they'd be several thousands of years expired by now.

      and if all you have to do is change the design, why isn't there a boardgame out there at wal-mart for $5 made in china that has alphabetical discs, instead of tiles, with the same basic rules as scrabble?

      Brand recognition. People periodically try to replace Scrabble. It happens every several years.

      the only game i can recall having 'dupes' are kismet 'the modern game of yacht' and yahtzee.

      This is primarily an indication that you don't know much about the games market. Games that perenially get copied include Uno, Sorry, Yahtzee, Connect 4, Mille Bornes, Scrabble, Rubik's Cube, Battleship, and on and on the list goes.

      Perhaps you don't understand market forces. Clones aren't absent because they're illegal. They're absent because nobody buys them.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    8. Re:Copyright broken by stonecypher · · Score: 3, Informative

      No brokenness? You can't copy a game that you played before you turned ten when you're an old man, and you say that's not broken?

      Uh, sure you can. You just can't steal their title or artwork.

      Copyrights were not meant to be extended across generations.

      I'd be a lot more inclined to take you seriously if you were at least getting the right branch of the law. This is not and never was a copyright issue.

      They were meant to protect innovators for part of their lives to generate income

      No, that's patents. Copyright has nothing to do with innovation, and this is neither a copyright nor a patent issue. Please settle down until you have at least a basic familiarity with the laws or case in question. This is a waste of time.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    9. Re:Copyright broken by Miseph · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "after the creator/inventor is dead should the copyright still be in place?"

      In fairness, it probably should. Otherwise I could see it being encouragement for some people to try and make the copyright holder dead in order to better evade it.

      Death is also problematic when corporations are able to hold copyrights because it's not something they are subject to. If you're waiting for my immortal corporation to die in order for the copyright to expire, you'll be waiting a very long time.

      --
      Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
    10. Re:Copyright broken by p0tat03 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, in this case I think the claim was that Scrabulous was infringing upon the Scrabble trademark. IMHO trademarks *should* last as long as the company is in operation. There's no reason why a company should have to lose its trade name over the course of time.

    11. Re:Copyright broken by stonecypher · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think the point is the length of the copyright.

      You think wrong. It's not a copyright issue at all, and there is no time frame attached at all. The issue is that Scrabulous was a brand ripoff. Game clones are okay. Brand clones aren't.

      Copyright and trademark are about as related as boats and cars. Please put more effort into debate. It's really annoying for a debate about cars to have people keep saying "but the problem is the water level in the lake." Trademarks do not, and should not, expire. It doesn't matter if Microsoft has been around for 80 years; nobody else should ever be able to claim to be Microsoft. This is a trademark issue because the company needs to be able to protect the brand. Scrabble clones can be released. Scrabble, the brand, is still S+R / Hasbro's property.

      If you don't understand the difference between copyright/trademark, or between a product and a brand, you really need to stay out of discussions like this.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    12. Re:Copyright broken by croddy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, the reason there's no scrabble clone with discs instead of rectangular tiles is that discs don't tile as well, and the board would be a mess. This is not a problem for a computer game, of course, but would be impractical in a physical game set.

    13. Re:Copyright broken by stonecypher · · Score: 2, Informative

      The part that is broken about it is the sixty years.

      Because this is not a copyright issue, there is no sixty year timeframe involved.

      Once a work of art has been around long enough to become part of our collective culture, it should belong to no one.

      As a game designer, I would like to remind you that in the eyes of the law, for a very good reason, game designs are not art.

      Incidentally, Scrabble was clonable the first day it was released. You just had to use a different name and color the board differently. This whole thing you're on about is completely mis-aimed. The real problem here is just that Scrabulous was visually similar and had a similar name.

      Spend less time worrying about what should or should not be, and more time understanding the situation correctly.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    14. Re:Copyright broken by stonecypher · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I hope they copyright their work.

      Games are not subject to copyright. (The binaries of computer games are, but that's a seperate issue.) This is a trademark issue, and no amount of trademarking their title will make any difference to Hasbro.

      The facebook traffic is a drop in the bucket in the Scrabble world. This is really about protecting the Scrabble copyright, so that newspapers can't use the name. If Hasbro didn't say "stop it", other people would be able to say that the trademark was out of defense and therefore invalid.

      None of this has anything to do with copyright.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    15. Re:Copyright broken by Anonymous+Cowpat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      they didn't claim to be 'scrabble'. They claimed to be 'scrabulous'. Is this the 5 8ths rule? if you use more than the larger half (in the case of odd numbers) or one more than half (in the case of even numbers) of the letters of someone else's trademark in consecutive order then you're in breach of it? Because I see all sorts of problems for microstar and anyone who sells a generic microwave.
      If scrabulous were a Hasbro product it would have been called 'Scrabble' or 'Scrabble online', it would not have been a deliberate portmanteau of 'scrabble' and 'fabulous'. Any reasonable person should come to the conclusion that they're not related except that the scrab- prefix indicates that it's a scrabble-like game. Thus; not a trademark infringement.

      --
      FGD 135
    16. Re:Copyright broken by multisync · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because this is not a copyright issue, there is no sixty year timeframe involved.

      I'm just going by what the various articles have said. Like this one, which says "News wire service Reuters is reporting Hasbro and Mattel are demanding that Facebook remove the popular Facebook application Scrabulous due to copyright infringement." Or this one, which says "Hasbro on Thursday filed a copyright and trademark lawsuit in New York against the creators of the ad-supported Scrabulous application, which boasts an astonishing half-million daily users." Or this one, which says "Hasbro, the Rhode Island company that owns the trademark to the 60-year-old board game, Scrabble, on which Scrabulous is closely based, has also asked Facebook to remove the game under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ..."

      But, hey, some random stranger on Slasdot assures me this has nothing to do with copyright, so I guess I'll just go with that.

      As a game designer, I would like to remind you that in the eyes of the law, for a very good reason, game designs are not art.

      As an intelligent human being who has actually looked around and noticed what happens in the real world, I would like to remind you that a can of Campbell's soup can be art. Art is not a thing, it is the act of creation and appreciation. I've even taken some pretty artistic dumps in my day.

      Spend less time worrying about what should or should not be, and more time understanding the situation correctly.

      Spend more time actually reading up on the subject we are commenting on, and less dispensing unsolicited advise to people who didn't ask for it.

      --
      I don't care why you're posting AC
    17. Re:Copyright broken by Number14 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Arg... this is both. The Trademark issue is over the name, and the Copyright issue is over the identical board. The look of the board, unlike the rules of the game, CAN be copyrighted.

    18. Re:Copyright broken by Kangburra · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How do you keep all the discs upright, you don't. Disc orientation is irrelevant, whereas in Scarabble it's critical. Words with upside down and slanted letters would inhibit the fun of the game. No making italic words isn't worth extra points! ;-)

      --
      Common sense is not so common
    19. Re:Copyright broken by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 2, Informative

      How about the artwork, colors, layout, and font?

      Does the fact that they changed all of the above, as well as the name, indicate something about the issues at stake?

      --

      GPL Deconstructed
    20. Re:Copyright broken by lgw · · Score: 3, Informative

      ... and that's how the law works: don't protect your trandemark and you lose it, as happened with "escalator" for example.

      Or, you can make chemical weapons for the losing side in a war and lose your trademark to the victor, as happened to Bayer with "aspirin" and "heroin". ;)

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    21. Re:Copyright broken by Wildclaw · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nobody, just like Shakespeare and The Odessey. A basic familiarity with the law might help you here. Nobody ever filed for or was granted protection on those items, and if they had been, they'd be several thousands of years expired by now.

      That is just insane. What about the ancestors of those great authors and game creators. Why shouldn't they have the right to protect their forefathers creations and make sure that they aren't misused, not to mention profiteered on.

      I hereby suggest a slight change to the copyright law. How does an even 10000 year retroactive copyright law sound. I think that is a nice and even number that should adequatly protect the rights of the creator and his progeny, while still being constitutional. Copyright ensures that the work of art stays in control of the family who actually created it, instead of being stolen by the lazy pricks in society.

      Anyone who doesn't agree with me is obviously a thief and not worth debating with. Have a nice day.

      - A righteous fighter for fairer (stronger) intellectual property rights

      Disclaimer: The above doesn't represent my opinions. Any resemblance to common pro copyright arguments is likely intentional. I have no intention at devaluing the parent post, and it was only choosen because of the nice quote.

    22. Re:Copyright broken by PinkPanther · · Score: 2, Interesting
      WHAT MONEY?

      Hasbro has an ancient game that they has spent zero time innovating on. A market demand opens for the game on the Intertubes and Hasbro failed to identify and fulfill that niche.

      These other guys built it, made money off it, and likely sent money Hasbro's way that they would not have otherwise had (new players wanting an offline version). I highly doubt people avoided buying the game because they could play it online...they wouldn't have FOUND the game if it wasn't online.

      Hasbro has been raking in cash on an idea that they have effectively let die. Along comes someone who does a great job in a market they aren't servicing ... and they whine all the way to the courts.

      These guys did NOT "steal" money (copyright and trademark aren't theft, by the way). They serviced a market that Hasbro failed to find for the past 15 years or so.

      --
      It's a simple matter of complex programming.
    23. Re:Copyright broken by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      WHAT MONEY?

      The money you mentioned three sentences later:

      These other guys built it, made money off it

      I can't believe the furor over this. The only way that it could have been more clear that the Scrabulous developers were profiting off of intellectual property that did not belong to them would be if the app had literally been named "Scrabble" and scanned in the artwork directly from Hasbro's product.

      Whether you believe intellectual property, as a legal concept, is just or not is a different issue, but under the current law Scrabulous was a violation. Kudos for the Wordscraper devs for finding a way now to preserve the core mechanics of the game without abusing trademark or copyright, but quite frankly it should have been done six months ago.

  2. DIY boards = infinite cleverness by Sockatume · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So if Hasbro takes them to court for infringing the board design (which IIRC is far shakier than the misuse of the trademark) then they can just delete that. The immediately available user-created boards which look like original Scrabble are, of course, not Wordscraper's fault.

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    1. Re:DIY boards = infinite cleverness by felipekk · · Score: 4, Funny

      Meh, now Hasbro is going to be mad. Not only you get more points for making Scrabulous when compared to making Scrabble, now you can get even more by making Wordscraper!

  3. hexagonal scrabble? by peter303 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I googled this and saw at least five different software versions. I presume you could also play on a 3D tesselation, should you be able design a convenient user-interface. (I guess it wounld start to look like sparse building girders.) I wonder if Hasbro has gone after any of these.

    1. Re:hexagonal scrabble? by Sockatume · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you threw in some pentagons, you could play Scrabble on the outside of a buckyball.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:hexagonal scrabble? by Oh+no,+it's+Dixie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I doubt that any of these have reached the popularity or notoriety necessary to trigger the Hasbro Lawyer Machine. Scrabulous was an extremely popular Facebook app, hence why the litigation was directed at that rather than the less important clones.

    3. Re:hexagonal scrabble? by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let's not forget that Hasbro hasn't so much as a patent on Scrabble itself, just a vague claim to copyright on the rules (which may not apply) and a trademark (Scrabble name, and perhaps the appearance of the board and tiles). If there's no risk of mistakenly assuming that the Scrabble-likes are actually Scrabble, then there's no trademark infringement to answer for.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  4. confused by SirShmoopie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Scrabulous is stil available for me, I'm in the UK.

    1. Re:confused by bigfatdeal · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, because it was only blocked in the US and Canada.

  5. It could have gone a lot better.... by the_weasel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So far, I like it. The custom boards are going to take some getting used to. I am in one game where every tile appears to be a double word score or more, and we are seeing scores of 4000 in some places.

    I much prefer the sparse tile versions, where it takes a LOT of planning to get a good score.

    Right now, i don't like it as much as scrabble, but I am willing to keep playing until things start to settle.

    In my personal opinion, scrabulous was always in clear violation of the law (I am not interested in discussing the ethics of that), and the takedown was inevitable.

    If Hasbro had learned from scrabulous instead of acting like spazzes, I would have switched to playing their client.

    They needed to release a client equal in speed, slickness and functionality. Then they should have negotiated a wrap up period of several days with the makers of scrabulous, where no new games could be created, but existing games could be wrapped up.

    They did neither, and you won't see me switching to play their version as a result.

    --
    - sarcasm is just one more service we offer -
    1. Re:It could have gone a lot better.... by SirShmoopie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Acknowledgement that a thing breaks the law is not the same as saying that you agree with the law that was broken.

    2. Re:It could have gone a lot better.... by the_weasel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I also park illegally on occasion, and sometimes drive a few miles above the speed limit. I have been known file my taxes late, and have stolen music by downloading it. Sometimes I accidentally throw away paper without recycling it.

      Scrabulous was a popular, well implemented version of a game I own no less than 4 boards for. i probably have purchased anywhere from 10 -15 boards over the past 20 years.

      I enjoyed it, so I played it. Now that wordscraper is available, I will play that.

      Those are all illegal, getting caught has penalties, and I know that. I may not agree with the laws, but when I get caught I pay the consequences, without whining or trying to come up with some sort of convoluted justification for my actions.

      Not all laws are equal in my books. Murder is not a law I break with the same equanimity as a local parking ordinance.

      If you have managed to live your life ethically pure, then I applaud you.

      --
      - sarcasm is just one more service we offer -
    3. Re:It could have gone a lot better.... by eddieboston · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > Not all laws are equal in my books. Murder is not a law I break with the same equanimity as a local parking ordinance.

      I think you're getting at the difference between a moral law and a civil law. Now "moral" can be a loaded word, so you can maybe think of it as the difference between an *intrinsic* human law and a law imposed by the government for the purposes of maintaining order or commerce. Both are important, but usually breaking moral laws are considered more severe.

      It is *wrong* to murder somebody. It is just *illegal* to run a stop sign. That's a big distinction.

      Of course, it's not always so clear cut. What if you run a stop sign and hit somebody? Is it immoral to download a song illegally? How about a terabyte of songs? Does that cross the line? Is there a difference between downloading a Beatles song and one by the local struggling artist? The law of the government cannot and should not make such distinctions, but we as thinking individuals must do so on a daily basis. That's what a conscience is for.

      --
      If it weren't for my stupidity, I'd be some kind of genius.
  6. I actually registered on FaceBook by dkone · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am not a big fan of social anything, but I actually registered on face book and downloaded the wordscraper client. I did this in my way of protest to Hasbro and their heavy handed stupidity. With that being said, the wordscraper client is buggy (it is in beta to be fair) but it sure is fun.

    How could a company like Hasbro, hiring a company like EA mess up something that should be relatively easy to convert into a program. I am not a programmer, but I would think that a game like Scrabble would be easy to make into an online game. Certainly easier then something like Age of Conan.

    DK

  7. Yeah! by davidwr · · Score: 5, Funny

    A
    B
    O
    U
    TIME

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  8. Good Exposure by Wiarumas · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm sure the creators loved all the press attention they have been recieving lately... additionally, I bet Hasbro regrets not giving these guys job offers rather than legal complaints.

    --
    I will bend like a reed in the wind.
    1. Re:Good Exposure by iamhassi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "bet Hasbro regrets not giving these guys job offers rather than legal complaints."

      prolly hard since they've already said they made $25,000+ a month from Scrabulous. I think if I were the guys I'd be begging Hasbro to buy the game from them for a few bucks rather than lose a lawsuit and lose all the money they've made and the game itself.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
  9. Wordscraper also wins the word score! by i_want_you_to_throw_ · · Score: 5, Funny

    Scrabulous = 14
    Wordscraper = 19

    A better choice of letters in more than one way.

  10. ABBCELRS by nedlohs · · Score: 4, Funny

    or ABCFHKORSU would be far superior names...

  11. This is over. by stonecypher · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Scrabulous was taken down because the name and visual presentation were too similar. Game mechanics are explicitly not protected by any branch of law. (In fact, I warned them in email six months ago that this was coming, and that they should rename/reskin their app.)

    Hasbro may try to sue again, but from here, if they do, it's barratry. Wordscraper is now safe.

    --
    StoneCypher is Full of BS
  12. Use this original Scrabble layout then... by drcagn · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've just recreated the Scrabble layout. You can play a original Scrabble game on facebook by clicking this link:

    http://apps.facebook.com/wordscraper/?action=newgame&similarto=54248

    I know I'd rather play a real Scrabble layout on Wordscraper than to use anything else. Enjoy.

    --
    Scorta futuere amo!
    1. Re:Use this original Scrabble layout then... by Radish03 · · Score: 4, Informative

      One thing you forgot is that the middle tile needs to be a double word score. Went ahead and fixed that: http://apps.new.facebook.com/wordscraper/?action=newgame&similarto=56609

  13. No, Wordscraper by DigitalReverend · · Score: 5, Funny

    The name only has one 'p' and it's from the word scrape, as in "I need to scrape this Hasbro from the bottom of my shoes.", not scrap, as in "Hasbro has always been the bottom of the scrap heap."

    --
    I read Slashdot for the headlines, because the headlines, unlike the articles, are usually original and never duplicated
  14. is it just me... by WwWonka · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...or am I the only one, this far down in the comments, to initially see "words craper" as the name of this app? Reminds me of the guy who named Titslinger who invented the bra.

    1. Re:is it just me... by kazumi · · Score: 2, Informative

      ...or am I the only one, this far down in the comments, to initially see "words craper" as the name of this app? Reminds me of the guy who named Titslinger who invented the bra.

      I think it's just you. What the hell is a "craper"?

  15. Re:single player by Kugrian · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Scrabulous site has a practice version available which allows you to play by yourself or against a computer. I'm guessing Wordscaper will have the same thing once they fix themselves up.