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Using Sun's Energy to Split Water Means Solar Power All Night

phorm writes "Reuters is carrying an article about a recent MIT development which may pave the way for solar-energy to be collected for use in low-input periods. According to Reuters, the discovery of the a new catalyst for separating hydrogen+oxygen from water requires only 10% of the electricity of current methods. This would allow storage-cells to function as a form of battery for other forms of energy-collection, such as solar panels. The new method is also much safer (and likely environmentally friendly) than current methods, which require the use of a dangerously caustic environment, and specialized storage containers." sanjosanjo points out coverage of the process at EE Times, which features the MIT group's press release.

23 of 557 comments (clear)

  1. I have my doubts... but, by pwnies · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "...with our catalyst almost 100 percent of the current used for electrolysis goes into making oxygen and hydrogen."

    If that is true (although I definitely have my doubts, as tales and empty promises of the past have made all of us highly skeptical when we read something like this), then it should open the road for a significantly more efficient means of producing hydrogen for hydrogen powered cars / devices. Hell a car equipped with a solar cell could just bake during the day to recharge itself and be ready to go for the commute home come 5pm. Though until I hear a confirmation of MIT's findings from another university/respected source, I hold on to my severe doubts about this.

    1. Re:I have my doubts... but, by mpoulton · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Though until I hear a confirmation of MIT's findings from another university/respected source, I hold on to my severe doubts about this.

      MIT isn't really in the habit of making unsubstantiated claims of new discoveries. That's pretty much the purview of startup companies in need of funding and no-name universities looking for grants. MIT et al stake their reputations on their discoveries, and do not generally cry wolf.

      --
      I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
    2. Re:I have my doubts... but, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Lets say your house needs 5000 W.

      Let's not. That's more power draw than the total available service into most houses; and most houses don't exactly draw at max for 8 hours straight. Divide your numbers by 5, and you have a more reasonable estimate.

    3. Re:I have my doubts... but, by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 5, Funny

      And they say Americans are energy hogs?

    4. Re:I have my doubts... but, by lgw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. In any case, you don't let any researcher (or institution) off the hook because of his popularity - what kind of science would that be?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    5. Re:I have my doubts... but, by CynicalTyler · · Score: 5, Funny

      I don't think so. I just chose a vacuum cleaner at random from a retailer web site and it uses 2000W

      Pro Tip: turn off your vacuum cleaner when you go to bed.

    6. Re:I have my doubts... but, by russotto · · Score: 5, Informative

      15 amps? 120 watts?

      No, most houses have 100-200 amp service. At 120 volts. Which works out to 12000-24000 watts, peak. Average electricity consumption is right around 1 kilowatt, so the poster who said to divide by 5 was right.

    7. Re:I have my doubts... but, by ArcherB · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually you can bike a lot further then you think. In addition it's not a waste of time in places with traffic congestion and you can travel faster by going a constant 15 mph as opposed to a stop and go 25mph. The roads would still exist obviously for an infinite amount of reasons but bike pathways and then offshoots of those pathways into may places of business would ease traffic and promote health and limit pollution.

      Can you ride 30 miles to work in Texas without smelling so much like ass that you boss has to ask you to go home? Then, of course, ride 30 miles home where your wife has to hose you off before letting you in the house?

      Oh, and then there is the rain, occasional ice, cold wind and so on that tends to inhibit normal people from riding bikes to work. Did I mention the hills? Lance Armstrong is from around here, ya know. Guess where he learned to ride up Mountains?

      Of course, then we have to worry about how much stuff we can pack for the trip. First, we need a change of clothes so we don't smell like ass. Of course, we can't let them get wrinkled. Next, we need a towel to dry off with after we shower (assuming we have a shower at work). Of course, we'll need soap and shampoo to wash the sweat off. This doesn't include a notebook or briefcase that is required for work.

      Now, of course, if we all lived downtown, it wouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately, because so many people want to live downtown so they can feel smug about riding their bikes to work that it has driven up the price of homes within bike distance of the jobs so much that it costs way too much for way too little living space. Sorry, but I don't make half a million a year, so I can't afford to live downtown.

      So, forgive me if it seems as if I'm coming down on you. It's not just you, but everyone else who tells me how I too could ride my bike to work. But seriously, please, don't give that crap about how wonderful it is to live in a Utopian society where all our jobs are within 5 minutes of our homes. That's only the case in Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan movies and does not reflect reality. Also, don't get me wrong, I would love it more people rode bikes to work. That would free up the free ways so I could get to work in less than an hour. Of course, if that were the case, all the freeways would still be jammed they would all be one lane government works.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    8. Re:I have my doubts... but, by MagusSlurpy · · Score: 5, Informative

      Dan Nocera is one of the top ten names (American, anyway) in this field right now, and he has been working on this with several of the others (such as Jay Winkler and Harry Gray). I've sat through probably 10 of his seminars at American Chemical Society conferences in the last two years, and he was pretty close in April (and seemed really excited about a new development, too). My guess is that he's spent the intervening time repeating the experiments, to guarantee it works. And as to corroborating sources, I'm sure that his cohorts from CalTech, etc. are double-checking everything, too.

      Anyway, I guess where I was going with this is that this isn't some fuel pill, or Al Gore rambling on about things he doesn't understand. Nocera is to water splitting what Miyamoto is to video games, and if he says that he's done it, I'm sure he's done it.

      --
      My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
    9. Re:I have my doubts... but, by Gibbs-Duhem · · Score: 5, Informative

      Indeed, Nocera has been working on this for what must be at least 15 years by now. I remember he had some catalysts four or five years ago that worked using only the ambient intensity of sunlight, but were far too expensive to be practical (so I heard).

      I also work in catalysis, and one of my friends is doing water splitting, so I've read a few papers on the topic. The materials used don't surprise me, cobalt is approximately as good as you can find. Also, I would note that this catalyst (I downloaded the paper) is releasing oxygen and gradually producing HPO4, which can then later be oxidized to (presumably) release energy. I'm not familiar with using phosphoric acid as a fuel, but the paper sounds extremely plausible.

      I would also suggest that, based on my reading of the paper, any real world applications would be 5-15 years away, depending on how well they're able to coat their electrodes.

    10. Re:I have my doubts... but, by jcr · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's rather snotty to flatly contradict a statement you disagree with, and then claim to have "fixed" it.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    11. Re:I have my doubts... but, by tuma · · Score: 5, Funny

      Also, don't get me wrong, I would love it more people rode bikes to work. That would free up the free ways so I could get to work in less than an hour.

      You're not alone! A recent study by the American Public Transportation Association found that 98 percent of Americans support the use of mass transit by others.

      --
      If you lived on /. , you'd be home now!
    12. Re:I have my doubts... but, by Toonol · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's rather snotty to flatly contradict a statement you disagree with, and then claim to have "fixed" it.

      I'd mod that +1 informative if I could... there's a lot of slashdot posters who don't seem to realize how rude it is... and how rudeness undercuts real discussion.

    13. Re:I have my doubts... but, by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's rather snotty to flatly contradict a statement you disagree with, and then claim to have "fixed" it.

      I'd mod that -1 Troll if I could... there's a lot of slashdot posters who don't seem to realize how rude it is... and how rudeness often has a legitimate role to play in real discussion.

      There, fixed that for you.

  2. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    First open sourcing solaris and now this.

    Way to go Sun!

  3. Benefits not just solar . . . by StefanJ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This would be a big win for any kind of "environmental" energy source (wind, waves, caged toddlers) that isn't always on.

    Heck, it would make a great general-purpose home UPS and/or load leveler. If properly integrated, a home equipped with this would be less vulnerable to brownouts and blackouts. Local storage would make the job of power companies easier too.

    Fingers crossed.

  4. Re:Vaporware by getnate · · Score: 5, Funny

    'nuff said.

  5. This Quote made the story, by Brynath · · Score: 5, Funny
    "For the last six months, driving home, I've been looking at leaves, and saying, 'I own you guys now,'" Nocera said.

    Scientist and Gamer...

  6. ENVIRONMENTAL RECKLESSNESS by Repton · · Score: 5, Funny

    It is established FACT that Hydrogen is very difficult to contain. It leaks through the tightest seals like they were swiss cheese, and once free it races into the atmosphere and escapes into space.

    This is not a major problem when all our hydrogen comes from the deep deposit hydrogen mines in Australia and Canada, but what if this new discovery hearalds an age of wholesail water mining? Do these so-called scientists not realise that we cannot have water without hydrogen? Have they forgotten that humans are 80% water? That water makes our crops grow and our fish swim?? Our life's blood could be literally floating away!

    This irresponsible god-gaming may save us from peak oil today, but our grandchildren tomorrow will be facing PEAK WATER if these experiments are allowed to continue!

    Write to your political representative today!

    --
    Repton.
    They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
  7. Re:Great. So when do we see it? by bucky0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >> It'd be really refreshing to see scientists develop a bit of altruism. It's the ultimate Open Source, and they'd be guaranteed decades, if not centuries, of good will and fame. That's worth a lot more than a few *possible* royalty checks.

    Altruism neither pays for the scientists' mortgages nor pays for all the equipment they use to develop their theories.

    I'm all for smacking down ridiculously-long copyrights, invalidating silly trademarks or getting rid of obvious patents (one-click shopping?), but this is the _exact_ thing that patents is supposed to support. These scientists (and by proxy, their granteurs (sp?)) took a gamble on developing a technology and they were successful. They should be rewarded for that success like any other person in society. Without that potential for gains, there's no reason to even try.

    --

    -Bucky
  8. You still have to be careful by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Informative

    For one, professors have to get grants to do their research, so they are sometimes given to overstatement to that end. They are, after all, only human which means that not all of them are honest. Also, some are simply unrealistic. They think they can do something, so they announce it, even though they have no idea how to get there, and then maybe never end up doing so. Finally sometimes shit just ends up being impossible. It looks good, seems like things will work, however in the end you can't make it happen. That happens with research. You can spend millions only to realise you've been down a dead end and there's nothing to be done about it.

    I agree an announcement from a major university is much more credible than some startup, but don't think things out of universities aren't overstated at times.

  9. Re:trade secret by Gibbs-Duhem · · Score: 5, Informative

    The paper is published in a peer reviewed journal. It's patented, not secret.

    They used ITO glass as an electrode with a neutral KPi electrolyte with 0.5mM Co^{2+} at 1.29V. They tried it with CoSO4, Co(NO3)2, and Co(OTf)2 as the cobalt source. It also works on FTO glass, as well as with a NaPi electrolyte.

    The description of the processing method is extremely detailed. I would have little difficulty duplicating this experiment. (YIAAS)

  10. Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    > Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.

    No, extraordinary claims require ordinary proof that has been vetted extraordinarily well.

    Otherwise, someone can arbitrarily declare claims 'extraordinary' and simply raise the bar every time the proof meets their old standard. You know, like they do with global warming, or evolution.

    Sorry, but that soundbyte just gets to me.