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Laptops With Certain NVidia Chips Failing
Eukariote writes "An estimated 18 million laptops with NVidia G84 and G86 graphics chips sold in the past one and a half years are experiencing high failure rates. Various laptop models from multiple manufacturers (Apple, Dell, HP, Lenovo, and others) are affected. NVidia blames it on bad chip packaging causing thermal failure. BIOS updates that turn the laptop fan on more frequently or permanently have been released by Dell and HP. The cynical interpretation is that this is likely to only delay the problem until the warranty has expired."
All Nvidia G84 and G86s are bad
The short story is that all the G84 and G86 parts are bad. Period. No exceptions. All of them, mobile and desktop, use the exact same ASIC, so expect them to go south in inordinate numbers as well. There are caveats however, and we will detail those in a bit.
Both of these ASICs have a rather terminal problem with unnamed substrate or bumping material, and it is heat related. If you ask Nvidia officially, you will get no reason why this happened, and no list of parts affected, we tried. Unofficially, they will blame everyone under the sun, and trash their suppliers in very colourful language.
When the process engineers pinged by the INQ picked themselves off the floor from laughing, they politely said that there is about zero chance that NV would change the assembly process or material set for a batch, much less an EOL part.
For dessert, there's this article to finish :)
Here are the Dell models which have BIOS updates, from TFA:
Inspiron 1420
Latitude D630
Latitude D630c
Dell Precision M2300
Vostro Notebook 1310
Vostro Notebook 1400
Vostro Notebook 1510
Vostro Notebook 1710
XPS M1330
XPS M1530
Sadly, it's not the laptops that are the problem. The problem apparently exists in all G84 and G86 chips, including those on desktop models.
This was reported by the inquirer (and here, i think) a few weeks ago, but apparently the news hasn't been getting around..
http://www.xkcd.com/354/
it is not logic board, it is motherboard. And yes, that is PC term. And yes, you got one.
Does this have anything to do with the Xbox 360's Red Ring of Death? [...]
Nvidia has been said to have had a hand in the design of some parts of the 360, and the problem sounds like it is identical.
Xbox 360 has ATI graphics. You must be thinking of the original Xbox, which did use NVIDIA graphics.
Are any desktop chips affected, or only laptop chips?
According to TFA both desktop and laptop chips are affected.
I've read a few stories about this too: http://seekingalpha.com/article/81647-microsoft-s-red-ring-riddle-resolved
Well, unless your replaced logic board fails again, I don't think Apple would take it back for replacement, since it basically works. Unfortunately, the affected GPUs are basically the entire nVidia 8x00 line (except for desktop 8300, and all the 8800's). Very few laptops actually use the 8800M GPU (think gaming laptops), so any other replacement, even a new laptop with an nVidia chipset will likely have the problematic GPU. The other alternative is to find a laptop with an AMD/ATi or Intel GPU.
Sorry, I was distracted by the picture of the BREASTS on TFA page
No sig for you!!
Why is it all Nvidia's fault, seems to me it should be a shared responsibilty.
I work for a company big into mobile IC design (like NVIDIA). And I can say that it is very likely NVIDIA's fault because they (as do we), as the design company, specify every last detail of process, circuit, and package, when it comes to IC fabrication. Additionally, the company which produced these chips--TSMC--is the oldest, largest, and possibly most reliable dedicated fab company in existence. If there is a heat dissipation problem, it almost certainly stems from engineering oversight or management's corner-cutting on NVIDIA's part.
>> Standing on head makes smile of frown, but rest of face also upside down.
I don't know about the US, but in the EU, you are "entitled to have the goods brought into conformity free of charge by repair or replacement" even if they aren't broken as such (i.e. dead).
As long as it's working fine at the moment, there's not much you can do. If it fails repeatedly while under warranty (especially with the same problem), you're likely to be able to talk your way into a replacement computer.
Apple does have a decent history of creating repair extension programs when there's a known and particularly nasty design defect, especially when another company owns up to it being their fault. I imagine especially in those cases, they get the third party to pay for some or all of the repair costs. However, if you're really worried about it, you might consider getting AppleCare just to give yourself the three years of warranty. Of course, AppleCare, like any extended warranty, is a large profit center - but many people (myself included) decide it's better to pay a few hundred dollars upfront than to risk an expensive repair (or an even more expensive replacement) later. On the other hand, the flat-rate repair service (which I assume they still offer) isn't that much more expensive than AppleCare, so as long as you don't need more than one repair in the 2nd or 3rd year, you might be better off just risking it.
But just to be clear - I'd personally expect that many of the computers might get covered by a repair extension, which often last to 3 years beyond the date of purchase. But that doesn't help at all if your computer exhibits a symptom other than what is expected for the particular failure covered; if your CPU fails, for example, you'd be on your own without the warranty.
There is a problem with the chips, there is no doubt about that. However take anything Charlie says about it with a huge truckload of salt. There was a bit of bad blood between Nvidia and Charlie years ago (something like 4 or 5 now), and ever since they've refused to talk to anyone from the Inquirer and Charlie specifically.
It seems these days that all Charlie does is write long article bashing Nvidia. That is unless he's writing an article that's so over the top that his editor has to pull it (yes, believe it or not, there actually is an editor in charge of all those pieces).
Go read dell or HP forums and EE times. Read The Inq only if you want some amusement to see how amazingly slanted of a story can be produced.