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California Can't Perform Pay Cut Because of COBOL

beezzie writes "Last week, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger ordered a pay cut, to minimum wage of $6.55/hr, for 200,000 state workers — because a state budget hadn't been approved yet. The state controller, who has opposed the pay cut on principle and legal grounds, now says the pay cut isn't even feasible because the state's payroll systems are so antiquated. He says it would take six months to go to minimum wage, and nine months more to restore salaries once a budget is passed. The system is based on COBOL, according to the Sacramento Bee, and the state hasn't yet found the funds or resources, in ten years of trying, to upgrade it." The article quotes a consultant on how hard it is to find COBOL programmers; he says you usually have to draw them out of retirement. Problem is, if there were any such folks on the employment rolls in California, Gov. Schwarzenegger fired them all last week, too.

6 of 1,139 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Programmers? by neko+the+frog · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Governor refuses his salary, so that won't work.

    I suspect the legislators are wealthy enough that their per diem cut wouldn't be too much hurt.

    Now what *would* work...you know how they choose a pope?

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    -- the opinions stated above aren't those of my employer. in fact, they're probably not even my own. you know what, ju
  2. Re:COBOL. by jeremyp · · Score: 5, Informative

    As any fool knows, the T-800 software was written in 6502 assembler.

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    All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
  3. Re:Problem is not lack of programmers.... by dave562 · · Score: 5, Informative
    This is the State of California we are talking about here. Do you really think that they have "non-production / test" environment of their antiquated COBOL mainframe setup for the amateur's to play around with and test code on? Maybe they can go ahead and just bring it up in an x86 virtual machine?

    My girlfriend works for the state. She handles part of the time/payroll process. Most of it is still manual and done in ledger books. For the facility she works at with about 500 employees there is a single person who handles all of the payroll data entry into the system. The entire system is so antiquated it would be a nightmare to sort out. It isn't as simple as updating a single value to $6.55 and being done with. Everything is tiered and based on seniority. Each position has a different pay rate and is influenced by how long the employee has been working for the state. There are so many layers of complexity in that system that it would boggle your mind. Hell... the state just LAID OFF 200,000 people. Those are only the part time folks. How many people are still employed? A million? Maybe more? Do you really want some amateur screwing with the production database that is responsible for paying a million people? And not just paying, but deducting social security, medicare, payroll taxes, pension payments, Cal-PERS and all of that?

  4. Re:Programmers? by COMON$ · · Score: 5, Informative
    Amen, gov't apps aren't generally created by seasoned programmers, they are programmed by whoever they could grab to throw at IT in the 90s. People that don't understand the concept of a variable, headers, comments, or anything resembling maintainable code.

    Also what is funny here is that dropping the wages wont get very many state workers to quit, they are so entrenched with their vacation time and specialized skills that they WONT go anywhere, they just like to bitch about it. Your average gov't worker is just that, a person who couldn't move on, every once in a while you run a cross a bright star keeping the mess together but they never amount to much as they leave after a couple years anyway.

    I have suggested many times that entire departments need to be fired, halved and hire new employees with 20% raises. There is so much bloat in personnel that it is insane, most of the shops have one guy doing the work for 10 people anyway.

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    CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
  5. Re:Controller is Right to Dis-obey an Illegal Orde by Skapare · · Score: 5, Informative

    Let's not ignore the rest of the circumstances here -- the Governor is acting on a 2003 California Supreme Court decision (though it is an interpretation of that decision). Another fact is that this is not a pay cut. It is just the amount to be paid for now. Other states that have faced this situation have had to simply not pay anyone at all (effectively furloughing all state workers). Even the Federal government has had this issue. So I'm guessing that the California Supreme Court decision is saying that not paying at all, or furloughing as a means to not pay, is not an option, and that a minimum wage still has to be paid for now, for anyone still on the job.

    Then there is the complication that the difference between what people should have been paid, and what they do get paid (minimum wage), be paid back later once the budget is approved and passes. That kind of logic is apparently not yet coded into the payroll system. The problem is more a case that the state has not budgeted to the state IT department the resources to implement, test, and deploy, a system the California Supreme Court decision may require under existing laws (or better yet, upgrade it to an all new system in a modern language on modern computers ... such as Java or Python running on Linux or Solaris).

    This is NOT lowering salaries/wages ... it is just paying them a minimum amount now for staying on the job, and the difference later once the budget becomes law.

    This is NOT "vindictively striking out at rank and file workers" ... it is trying to make sure they are paid something for now, rather than nothing at all, or the possibility of them not even working (time for which they then would never be paid).

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    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  6. Re:COBOL. by Alpelopa · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm surprised by the number of people posting who seem to have no experience working with legacy IT systems (COBOL or otherwise). Here's a quick primer:

    First of all, there is generally no system architecture in legacy contexts. Rather, a set of interdependent applications will have grown into a system over time.

    COBOL applications in particular are not built on RDBMS concepts and changes to back-end data must be made programatically or disaster is likely to ensue. In many cases, no living person will know all the tables that should be changed to update a particular value safely.

    Here, the governor wished to cut the salaries of a broad category of employees which probably has no representation in the system. You can't just do a "update pay set rate='crap' where job_type not like '%critical%'" sort of approach. You would probably have to go through and re-classify many thousands of job types one-by-one to a new pay grade code, except that this would screw up benefits issues that weren't part of the pay cut.

    To subsequently reimburse back pay, as the governor promised, you would have to keep track of the old pay grade in a system that almost certainly does not track history. Then you'd have to build in a method for accounting for back pay.

    Bearing in mind there are no test suites for these changes, it's easy to believe it would take a while to implement them.