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Police Secretly Planting GPS Devices On Cars

bfwebster writes "The Washington Post has a long investigative article on how more and more police departments are secretly planting GPS tracking devices on the cars of people they are investigating — usually without a warrant. After-the-fact court challenges on this technique have largely upheld such use of a GPS device, though the Washington State Supreme Court has ruled that a warrant is required."

23 of 609 comments (clear)

  1. Do the police... by ForestGrump · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Do the police require a warrant if they want to follow me around for the day? If yes then I believe this should require a warrant. Else, what's the diff except it costs much less and is more discrete.

    Grump

    --
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    1. Re:Do the police... by spiffmastercow · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Do the police require a warrant if they want to follow me around for the day? If yes then I believe this should require a warrant. Else, what's the diff except it costs much less and is more discrete.

      Grump

      Let's try a better analogy:

      Do the police need a warrant to overhear my conversations while I'm on my cell phone in a public place? No, but they are legally required to have one if they're going to bug my phone.

    2. Re:Do the police... by religious+freak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Eh, I don't know if I'd go quite that far. Police can track you in public, but this thing could track you on private land (maybe your own - esp if you're a farmer or rancher).

      This is ok, but with a warrant, IMHO.

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    3. Re:Do the police... by Joe+Snipe · · Score: 5, Funny

      Let's try the best analogy: Do the police need a warrant to duct tape a midget to the underside of my car? If yes then I believe this should require a warrant. Else, what's the diff except it costs much less and is more discrete.

      --
      Sometimes, life itself is sarcasm...
    4. Re:Do the police... by Qzukk · · Score: 5, Interesting

      A GPS tracker will track exactly where the car is no matter what.

      Given the limitations of GPS, except for when it's in a garage or building ;)

      Seriously, though, if the police put a tracker on my car, and are unable to produce documentation demonstrating that they have done so, is the tracker mine if I discover it before they remove it?

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    5. Re:Do the police... by Original+Replica · · Score: 5, Informative

      No if a private citizen does it they go to jail. If it is known to be illegal will any police officers go to jail for doing this? Of course not. Will their commanding officers be removed from police force for negligence of duty in allowing those under them to use illegal tactics? Of course not. Do the police give a shit if this is illegal, if they only get caught occasionally and when they do the suffer no personal penalties? Of course not.

      --
      We are all just people.
    6. Re:Do the police... by vux984 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Do the police require a warrant if they want to follow me around for the day?

      No.

      If yes then I believe this should require a warrant.

      But its no.

      Else, what's the diff except it costs much less and is more discrete.

      Good point. I wonder if the police would object if I went up to their patrol cars, ghost cars, and other vehicles and slapped my own gps transmitters on them, and then published their whearabouts in realtime on google maps. I mean, I could do all this legally if I just had a bunch of people follow their cars around all day and post their whearabouts, right?

      So whats the diff except that it costs much less and is more discrete?

      Yet, something tells me the police would object strenuously to this.

    7. Re:Do the police... by roman_mir · · Score: 5, Funny

      It depends, is it an African midget or a European midget?

    8. Re:Do the police... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Probably because in some cases that is exactly what is happening. Speed limits in some areas are set unrealistically low. Local traffic is basically ignored at any speed. Out of state plates will be pulled over and ticketed, even though to be safe they should be flowing with traffic.

      Traffic laws are also subject to politics. We don't get safety all the time. Sometimes it is just the perception of safety. Speed variance is a bigger killer than raw speed, but our speed limits are generally set lower than most drivers can handle. This results in one subset of the population doing the speed limit and the other subset of the population driving at a reasonable rate of speed for the road. So you'll get a spread of, say, 15 mph. A car going 75 is much more likely to hit a car doing 60 than it is to hit another car going 75. But we blame the speeders because they are speeding, rather than seeing that the system is stupid and dangerous.

    9. Re:Do the police... by stewbacca · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because traffic laws don't exist to promote public safety. Otherwise they'd ticket people who fail to yield, make illegal lane changes and tailgate...all much more dangerous driving habits than breaking the artificially low speed limits that exist solely to generate revenue. IF they must be lazy and just ticket speeders, then why the hell don't they come to my residential street and pull people over for doing 45 in the 25. Instead, they sit on the expressway and give out tickets for 62 in a 55 on an wide-open, empty highway without another car in sight (let alone small children playing in the street).

    10. Re:Do the police... by coolsnowmen · · Score: 5, Informative

      Would you trust /.?
      http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/05/1730239

      "According to this article at CNN: Police arrested a man they said tracked his ex-girlfriend's whereabouts by attaching a global positioning system to her car. Police said Gabrielyan attached a cellular phone to the woman's car on August 16 with a motion switch that turned on when the car moved, transmitting a signal each minute to a satellite. Information was then sent to a Web site that allowed Gabrielyan to monitor the woman's location." A ruling last year stated that police need a warrant to track individuals in a similar fashion.

      found this too: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2334039

    11. Re:Do the police... by Gription · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Otherwise they'd ticket people who fail to yield, make illegal lane changes and tailgate...

      Each of those is a ticketable offense, as is the catch-all "reckless driving". They're just quite a bit more difficult to spot.

      The point is that the police departments make no effort to enforce them. They enforce two things: Speed and Intoxication.

      It is hard to argue with drunk driving. Having a moving object that ways 3000+ lbs cruising with no brains in control is a good use of traffic enforcement.

      But speed?
      Everyone "Knows" that speed is dangerous. The problem is that the facts don't support what you think you "Know". Lets try hard statistics (that they don't tell you because they aren't sexy).
      - 80% of fatal traffic accidents happen at 45mph or less. (We spend most of our time in SoCal a 5mph on the freeway)
      - The California Highway Patrol used to have a list of the top 20 root causes of accidents.
      #4 on the list with 16 percent was driving too slow!
      #16 on the list with a fraction of one percent was driving to fast.
      - In the mid 80s the NHTSA commissioned a report to show how many lives 55mph saved. The report was delayed 18 months because they didn't get the results they wanted. After massaging/spinning the statistics for a year and a half the best they could come up with is if they ignored the vast improvements in auto safety each life that they saved cost 150 man/years of extra time on the road. An analysis of the data showed that the safest speed to travel was 10 to 15 mph faster then the flow of traffic. (Car and Driver had a great analysis of it)

      Now if you consider the vast improvements in auto and tire safety it becomes obvious that the actual risk from driving went UP because of the 55mph limit. The 1st obvious reason is because if you are crawling along at a speed that doesn't require that you pay attention people won't pay attention. (Refer back to the bit about moving objects with no brains controlling them...) A second reason is they had bred a generation of drivers that were unsafe a 55 because they had learned "aiming skills" instead of "driving skills".

      Traffic enforcement is about revenue. Fear a government that has become so disconnected that it thinks you are its source of income instead of thinking that it is supposed to serve you.

      Oh and back to the original point of this thread...
      Ben Franklin would have a conniption. The United States was the land of freedom. If it wants to become that again then it needs to ALWAYS error on the side of freedom. You think these things make you safer? More secure? Security is a FEELING. They are protecting you from things that aren't a credible threat. The government can NEVER make you safe unless they lock you in a closet. You are mortal!!! Life has a 100% mortality rate. Being safe is never the point unless your eyes are closed. LIVING is the point. Go out and live and don't worry. You might experience some things that have a little risk involved with them. If you do you will probably smile because you are LIVING!

    12. Re:Do the police... by icebike · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you really think about this statement, I think you'll find it to be demonstrably false.

      No he was spot on.

      It is the speed variance that kills.

      The ditch on that corner he failed to negotiate was only going zero miles per hour. The total variance was probably in excess of 70mph.

      Same for that 2mph pedestrian he killed last week.

      --
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    13. Re:Do the police... by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Speed variance is a bigger killer than raw speed, but our speed limits are generally set lower than most drivers can handle.

      If you really think about this statement, I think you'll find it to be demonstrably false.

      If you actually research this statement instead of taking a knee jerk reaction, I know you'll find that speed variance IS the culprit, established by many studies. You might also find that the recommended speed limits are at a speed such that 85% of the cars will be under it, that raising and lowering speed limits away from that 85% level has very little effect on speeds, and that jurisdictions set speed limits away from the 85% level as a response to lack of revenue or to give residents a false sense of something being done.

      Go ahead. Look it up. Here's a clue: FHWA-RD-92-084

    14. Re:Do the police... by Neoprofin · · Score: 5, Informative

      So what's your theory about New Rome, Ohio?

      60 residents, 14 police officers, almost 3000 tickets issued a year.

      So many in fact that AAA put up a billboard outside of town warning drivers about it.

      Granted, an extreme example, but don't pretend it doesn't happen.

    15. Re:Do the police... by sleigher · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well I am certainly not going to cite anything but I will say this in response. When I am going down 280 on the peninsula at 65 and everyone is whizzing past me at 75 I am a hazard. I might be the one following the rules but it is easy to see that I am the one causing the problem. Although I am following the 'law', it easier for an accident to happen simply because the other drivers have to actively avoid me.

      This is only my observation and not a scientific study!

      --
      All points of time and space are connected.
    16. Re:Do the police... by 1729 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Do the police require warrants to bug my house? YES! The difference between my house and my car is very little so yes they need warrants too.

      Yes, but do the police need a warrant to put a GPS tracker on your house?

  2. Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If they attach it to my car without my permission, doesn't it become MINE to do whatever I want with? Seriously, how many of these do they really expect to recover and download data from? Plus, doesn't it become "theft of services" the minute they hook it up to my car's electrical system?

  3. Scarier still... by nebaz · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you RTFA, you'll see a poll asking if people approve this tactic. As of right now, 55% do.

    --
    Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
  4. The difference between "following" and "tracking" by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 5, Interesting

    An easy way to answer your question, and countless others like it:

    "What would happen to me, as a private citizen, if I did this to a cop?"

    If the answer is "Nothing," then it's probably a reasonable thing for the cops to do to you. If the answer is "Waal, I believe that there'd be a tasin', boy," then it is not.

    So, you tell me. What do you think would happen if you were caught placing tracking devices on police cars?

    And as for the courts permitting this kind of crap to occur: remember the most important lesson of the Gulag Archipelago. The judicial system is your last defense. When they fail to protect your rights, the time for peaceful reckoning is past.

  5. Analogies Not Sufficient by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Informative

    Do the police require a warrant if they want to follow me around for the day? If yes then I believe this should require a warrant. Else, what's the diff except it costs much less and is more discrete.

    No, they don't need a warrant to tail you, your whereabouts in public places isn't considered a search, but public information. However...

    The Sixth Circuit held in the Baily case, of attaching a beeper (rather than GPS, c.1980), that merely analogizing with tailing isn't sufficient to decide the issue, it's one of reasonable expectation of privacy.

    The judge in the 7th circuit Garcia case wrote :

    One can imagine the police affixing GPS tracking devices to thousands of cars at random, recovering the devices, and using digital search techniques to identify suspicious driving patterns. One can even imagine a law requiring all new cars to come equipped with the device so that the government can keep track of all vehicular movement in the United States.

    Personally, I read that as a warning, not a suggestion, but it's what he feels the law allows for. I'm slowly being persuaded by Moore's Law that perhaps a Constitutional Amendment clarifying the right to privacy (which many of us feels already exists in the 4th amendment) would be an OK thing. Now, to get Congress to pass that (ha!).

    Bruce Schneier argues for the requirements of warrants for these kinds of tracking, to prevent rampant growth and abuse of the police state.

    Fortunately for the police state, citizens are voluntarily loading up their cars with tracking devices (EZ Pass, Tire Pressure Monitors, OnStar), so they don't have to even bother installing a GPS device in some cases. Sure, everybody knows that cell phones can be tracked, but how many people know that federally-mandated tire pressure monitoring systems send out a unique 'MAC' for every wheel?

    What's gotten people burned in several cases I've read about is that they were driving vehicles they didn't own, and the courts make a distinction there. Does the car you regularly drive have your name on the title or your wife's? That's exactly what got one guy's 4th amendment defense thrown out - his wife 'owned' the car he used, so they weren't tracking his property and he didn't have standing.

    --
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  6. Tracking Devices and the Fourth Amendment by OakLEE · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Alright, having just written a legal brief on the subject, I'll explain the legal rationale behind these rulings so that we can actually have an intelligent debate on this subject.

    The Fourth Amendment, which protects against unreasonable searches and seizures, only applies when a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy in the item or information searched or seized.

    Here, the information about the person's location is what is being "seized." Thus, the way the debate is framed centers around the question: Does a person have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their location?

    Now, the law is pretty clear in some respects. For example, you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in your home. Thus, the Fourth Amendment applies, and police need a warrant to track your movements in your home.

    On the other hand, you have no expectation of privacy when you travel out in public. This is rather obvious because when you travel in public, everyone around you can see you and knows where you are. Thus, the Fourth Amendment does not apply, and it has been long established law that police can conduct surveillance on anyone in a public area without a warrant. (Note: This is the same basic rationale by which placing cameras on street corners does not violate the Fourth Amendment.)

    The Supreme Court has further extended this rationale to apply to electronic tracking devices (e.g., GPS, Triangulation Beacons) used for tracking people in public. The rationale is that as long as the subject is in public, he has no reasonable expectation of privacy in his location.

    Thus, the Fourth Amendment does not apply and you have no constitutional protection against police attaching a GPS device to your car. Police can track your car with a GPS locator, provided they break no laws with respect to installing the locator (A non-constitutional issue).

    That said, the Supreme Court has left the door open to regulating this type of behavior by police. The majority opinion in U.S. v. Knotts left open the possibility of using "different constitutional principles" to regulate police use of tracking devices if "dragnet type law enforcement practices" developed. Dragnet in this context refers to systematic and coordinated measures for apprehending criminals or suspects.

    Thus, presumably one could argue that if the police started using GPS devices in our cell phones to track everyone in a systematic manner, another constitutional principle, like for example the right of privacy, could be applied to find a constitutional ground to prevent it. Whether the Supreme Court chooses to use the dicta in Knotts is of course up to it.

    Anyway, that's it, have fun debating.

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  7. Re:The difference between "following" and "trackin by solitas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For you, a private citizen, following a police officer or other official while in performance of their duties is illegal.

    It begs to be asked: why?

    --
    "It's time to take life by the cans." ~ Bender ("Bendin' in the Wind", ep. 3-13)