Slashdot Mirror


Support Grows For Blanket Music Licensing

Anti-Globalism sends in Ars coverage of a speech by Jim Griffin, who is a consultant for Warner, one of the big four music labels. Griffin is encouraging dialog on the idea of blanket licensing of music — a topic heretofore more likely to be heard from the EFF or the Barenaked Ladies. "Taking music without paying for it may not be 'morally voluntary,' Griffin says, but he admits it has become 'functionally voluntary.' No civilized society, he adds, can endure 'purely voluntary payment for art, knowledge, and culture.' So Griffin's job is to help Warner monetize digital music, and he's convinced that the issue of payment for music is nothing less than 'our generation's nuclear power.' Griffin's most intriguing idea, and one he's been pitching for some time now, is a voluntary, blanket music license; essentially, bringing the collection society model to end users. In this model, consumers would pay royalties into a pot (by paying an extra monthly fee to their ISPs, for instance) and would then have access to all the music from all the labels that participate in the scheme."

24 of 606 comments (clear)

  1. But some artists suck. by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Under blanket licensing, how do I reward artists with good music preferentially to those who suck? Frankly, any business model that has talented artists like Radiohead, NIN, etc earning the same amount or less than crappy acts like Britney Spears is fundamentally broken. I will not give one penny to those talentless pop stars.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    1. Re:But some artists suck. by the_humeister · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's just another form of taxation. I don't want my tax dollars going towards the "war" but it's going there despite the fact.

    2. Re:But some artists suck. by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't see how either mandatory or even voluntary reporting of the music I personally listen to can be considered a 'bast case' scenario.

      I would rather see a system where the release of a music recording is sold (rather than a copy). For example, a band records a studio album and goes on tour. They price the release of the album at 100,000 tickets. After they've sold their 100,000 concert ticket, they release the album to the public domain. That's just one example, artists that don't tour or perform live would have to come up with other mechanisms.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    3. Re:But some artists suck. by arth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, this isn't taxation, which actually pays for services.
      This is protection money, plain and simple.

    4. Re:But some artists suck. by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's described as voluntary. As in, you can pay X to the companies which join the scheme, and then get carte blanche to download music. Or you can just not bother, and continue to buy music from the specific artists you prefer. If it was mandatory, then it'd be pretty dubious.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    5. Re:But some artists suck. by DirkBalognapantz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's just another form of taxation. I don't want my tax dollars going towards the "war" but it's going there despite the fact.

      Exactly. It would be a tax. That is why I oppose this. Unless the government is collecting this money, not everyone is covered. I do not believe it is the role of government to ensure the health of a commercial entertainment industry through taxation. Why does this country dislike socialized programs for the protection of its citizens, yet encourages socializing the support of whole industries? I thought this was a capitalistic society.

    6. Re:But some artists suck. by jacquesm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's spot on, it's really the only thing that would make any sense at all.

      The reason why it won't be popular with the industry is exactly because of the multiplier involved in 'running the copies', that multiplier is not in the hundreds (like a large wedding) but in the tens of thousands to tens of millions.

      Performing artists with a good income will be exactly that again, performing artists, not studio artists. We'll come full circle to lots of live music.

    7. Re:But some artists suck. by sm62704 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, this isn't taxation, which actually pays for services. This is protection money, plain and simple.

      Yeah, but what they're protecting is themselves against the competetion. Their competetion is the independant artists and labels, who are NOT suing their best customers like the RIAA thieves do.

      Under their scheme, they get paid but the indies don't.

      No civilized society, he adds, can endure 'purely voluntary payment for art, knowledge, and culture

      This is an incredibly ignorant lie. Every society in the world had just such a voluntary system until the advent of copyright in 1662.

      he's convinced that the issue of payment for music is nothing less than 'our generation's nuclear power

      WTF is that supposed to mean? Ironic though; when nuclear power was first engineered they said it would make electricity "too cheap to meter".

      I'd be willing to bet that this sleazy RIAA goon never heard of open source software or copyleft.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    8. Re:But some artists suck. by Grishnakh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I do not believe it is the role of government to ensure the health of a commercial entertainment industry through taxation. Why does this country dislike socialized programs for the protection of its citizens, yet encourages socializing the support of whole industries? I thought this was a capitalistic society.

      You are misinformed. This is a corporatist society, not a truly capitalistic one. The corporations and the government work hand-in-hand for their mutual benefit (not really the benefit of the government as a whole, but rather its individual members), to the detriment of the citizens. This is why socialized programs for industries are highly popular here, while socialized programs for citizens are not.

    9. Re:But some artists suck. by davester666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Once again, this is just a way for the big labels to a) get regular, steadily increasing income [as you can't vary what you pay, and the monthly rate will only rise over time], and b) obfuscate which artists should be paid what amount of money.

      The musicians will have no ability to check how much they should be paid or even how much the labels are skimming off the top from all the artists.

      For the defined goal of 'artists must get paid', of the three groups involved:
      1) customers always have to pay some increasing amount of money
      2) labels get a large steadily increasing amount of income
      3) artists get whatever the labels decide to give them

      Given that the goal of the labels is to maximize shareholder profit, manipulating 1) [assuming they can get people to buy into this stupid idea] is hard, because there generally is widespread displeasure at tax increases, but manipulating 3) is trivial and basically unverifiable by anybody except people within the labels themselves.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    10. Re:But some artists suck. by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And what is better? Is it music as it was a hundred years ago or music as it is now?

      How dense are you, really? No music exists independent of what came before. All music is variations on what came before. Music now is music past plus a smidge, always has been, always will be. Music now is not better than music then, or worse, it is only music different. If you truly think music now is always better than music past, you are one sorry sucker.

  2. Error: Persepctive Missing. by maniac/dev/null · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Our generation's nuclear power?" Seriously? You're comparing finding a way to sell music with SPLITTING THE ATOM?!?

    1. Re:Error: Persepctive Missing. by Random+Guru+42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Think 60s anti-nuclear protests. It's our generation's nuclear power issue because of the hell raised on both sides of the fence.

      --
      Christopher S. 'coldacid' Charabaruk -- coldacid.net
  3. Lets call this what it really is by frovingslosh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Lets call this what is really is, an involuntary forced payment to one of the most evil and hated organizations in the country from many people who have absolutely no interest in downloading bad low quality music at all and never will.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  4. Voluntary payment by snarfies · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ' No civilized society, he adds, can endure 'purely voluntary payment for art, knowledge, and culture.'

    Really. Because I'm pretty sure that almost every society on the planet Earth has had art, knowledge, and culture work that was for several millenium, if not longer. I'm reasonably sure nobody paid the guys who made cave paintings. Art, knowledge, and culture - the REAL stuff, as opposed to, say, Brittany Spears and the line, are produced by volunteers in their spare time. They do it because they have a burning passion to do so, and financial considerations tend to be secondary, if not tertiary.

  5. Just another ploy by TheMeuge · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Exactly.

    This isn't trying to be friendly to consumers, and work out a common ground.

    Instead, it's music execs trying to figure out how they can continue profiting from mediocrity, while also making it even more difficult for independent artists to find an audience and be compensated for their work.

    How do you think this is going to work? Most likely, the pool would be divided among the RIAA member companies, and allocated based on the artsts whose music got played or downloaded more. Considering that they are going to be the same artists that are going to be promoted by the RIAA, and the same artists whose music will be forced into my skull through paid arrangements (do we really deserve the punishment of hearing the same song on the radio 20 times per day?).

    Under such an arrangement, RIAA can just deposit their "proteges" into the playlist by paying the radio stations, and then proceed to collect 99% of all money from the pool, which will then be allocated by them - 99% to the company, 1% to the artist... and only a few artists are going to see that 1%. In other words, the system will be even more skewed and broken than it is now!

  6. Supply and demand: a recap by dada21 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let us ignore all the various government intrusions that try to subvert the real market laws: supply and demand.

    When you have a limited supply of an item, and some demand, the price tends to go up. When you have an unlimited supply of an item, and some demand, the price tends to go down.

    Music, or any content that can be distributed digitally, can have near infinite supply. The price, in such a case, may fall to zero. Some people will have some "moral imperative" to paying the original artist, but in reality the current distribution does NOT pay the original artist. Look at how the coward monopolists at BMI distribute royalty license fees.

    There's a great catch, though, and one that I've used to help small bands make a pretty decent buck: find out what you have that can be sold in limited supply.

    For musicians, their live performances are always going to be in limited supply. The music, since it is infinite in supply and has a value of zero in terms of quality between licensed and unlicensed copies, should be a marketing item.

    Make your money the way most of us here make it: by doing new work for new customers. Your old work, as ours, is a great portfolio tool to attract new clients. Once you've gotten the clients' attentions, offer them value added items. Instead of hoping to get $15 for a CD that they can download for nearly nothing, offer an autograph session and only autograph your CDs. I own an offset print shop, and we can do custom CD runs for almost nothing. Sell collector's items, autograph them, and you've got a valid limited-supply product. Sell limited-run T-shirts. Offer personal time for your wealthy fans to hang out back stage, at a fee, or even offer online or IRL lessons to groups of fans.

    A person's pay is not for work they've done in the past. No one pays their plumber a license to flush their toilet. No one pays their plumber a fee when they use the plumber's tactics to fix their own toilet again. Past work is relatively worthless if it can be mimicked by others, easily.

    Copyright only exists today because of the momentum of it. It is dying a quick death. There are artists out there who moan and complain about it, but they're the ones who just can't see the forest for the trees: writing music, creating drawings, etc, is no different than going to plumbing school. Your labor of creation is the lesson time you spend to figure out a way to sell your future labor. Write a song, learn to fix toilets: they've both education. YOu don't get paid to learn to fix toilets, you don't get paid to write your own music. Both steps take you to the next level: finding customers to sell your services to.

    1. Re:Supply and demand: a recap by AcidPenguin9873 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I couldn't disagree more. The thing in limited supply, and in high demand, is the musician's creativity - writing melodies that people like, expressive lyrics, cool guitar solos, interesting arangements, new instruments used in a different genre, etc. That's what I'm paying for when I buy music. The fact that copies of this creativity cost $0 to duplicate and distribute does not mean that the creativity itself is worthless. *That* is what copyright law was establish to protect. Everyone here on Slashdot justifies illegal copying by making quips about the poor quality of music, lack of creativity, etc., but that does not give anyone the right to take it for $0. The course of action in those cases is to not buy it.

  7. amazing solutions by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    from people who still don't understand how the fundamentals have changed

    recorded music is now nothing more than an advertising vehicle for artists. if some old timers have a problem conceptualizing that, imagine the business model of radio: it gave music away for free in order to sell ad spots and create buzz. got that? apply that concept to recorded music now. welcome to present day reality

    artists: no more coasting on royalties. you'll have to do regular work, concert gigs, to make a living like the rest of us mortals, or be spokesman for advertisers. you'll still be disgustingly rich and get lots of blow jobs from eager female fans. i don't exactly empathize with your plight of losing royalties

    distributors: the internet has replaced you. you can't compete with free, sorry, enjoy your extinction

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  8. It's only taken them TEN YEARS! by Newer+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It's only taken them TEN YEARS to come up with what Napster tried to hand them on a platium platter a decade ago-and they responded then by suing them out of business. Now 10 years later they're slapping themselves on the back for coming up with this original idea?

    Will someone please give these clowns a clue pill?

  9. Like on radio? by aleph42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    *Again*, this is the same buisness model as radio royaty, and public TV in the country where it exists.

    People pay a fee, the audiance of each artist is measured using polling (TV audiance is not exact), and then you give the money according to that repartition.

    Last time this was discussed, I was modded into oblivion for simply pointing that the majors were changing their stance on this (before, they hated it). We'll see if slashdotters have smarten up on this.

    Look at how different p2p statistics and box office are for some movies: this would be a better system, because at the very least the medium is not controlled by the guy who sells the stuff. Also, no more bullshit about causing 10,000$ dammages for one song.

    --
    Don't take my posts literally; it's just code to control my botnet.
  10. The solution is simpler by Brain-Fu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No civilized society, he adds, can endure 'purely voluntary payment for art'

    So charge for concert tickets, t-shirts, trinkets, datastream subscriptions, and so forth.

    1. Re:The solution is simpler by gnick · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So charge for concert tickets, t-shirts, trinkets, datastream subscriptions, and so forth.

      I've seen downloaders use this argument a lot to justify downloading music and sometimes even asserting that charging for music is somehow immoral - "Information wants to be free" type stuff. Of course, you may just be trying to volunteer a band-air to the admittedly completely broken business model...

      I suspect that the same downloaders also download movies. I really would like to see somebody make the leap and extend that argument to defend downloading movies. Only pay for live performances? Hope that people will shell out $12 because they just have to see Office Space on the big screen in a noisy, crowded theater instead of the leaked DVD at home? The Big Lebowski action figures?

      Anyone care to make the leap?

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
  11. voluntary payments vs voluntary payments? by Rudolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "No civilized society, he adds, can endure 'purely voluntary payment for art, knowledge, and culture. [...] Griffin's most intriguing idea, and one he's been pitching for some time now, is a voluntary, blanket music license;"

    Wait. Voluntary payments don't work, so here's a voluntary payment scheme?