RIAA Exec Moves Over To Gaming Industry

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "The same RIAA executive who defended a $222,000 verdict over 24 song files at an academic conference back in March, Kenneth Doroshow, is leaving the RIAA and joining the Entertainment Software Association ('ESA'). As I said on my blog, if Mr. Doroshow 'accomplishes for game manufacturers what he accomplished for the recording industry, I would say the industry's prospects are bleak.'"

Comments

Game piracy is a bit different

[philspear]

At the risk of being unpopular, I'm going to say that in my opinion sharing ripped MP3s is morally the equivalent of jaywalking, wheras sharing games is morally closer to shoplifting.

For one thing, I think more work goes into game-making than a Brittney Spears song, and it's done by people I respect rather than people I think are the scum of the earth. For another, it seems to me that the higher costs of making a game makes game piracy closer to real theft. I know recording studio fees are quite expensive, and indie game makers can often make a game without so much as a bank loan, but there's a reason for the generally higher price of games than CDs.

There are hardworking people in the music industry sure, just like there are scum in the gaming industry, and I should also say I've worked in neither industry.

All the same, I think game piraters have less of a moral leg to stand on than music pirates. A $220,000 fine for 24 songs or games is ridiculous, but moreso for music.

Like I said, my opinion. This is not based on legal crap (obviously.)

I also would say that in both cases, nothing is actually stolen in the same sense that you would steal a car, and for the RIAA or ESA to sue individuals into bankrupcy with either is/would be dickish. The RIAA and ESA if they follow suit are the real bad guys here.

Re:Game piracy is a bit different

[mxs]

At the risk of being unpopular, I'm going to say that in my opinion sharing ripped MP3s is morally the equivalent of jaywalking, wheras sharing games is morally closer to shoplifting.

For one thing, I think more work goes into game-making than a Brittney Spears song, and it's done by people I respect rather than people I think are the scum of the earth. For another, it seems to me that the higher costs of making a game makes game piracy closer to real theft. I know recording studio fees are quite expensive, and indie game makers can often make a game without so much as a bank loan, but there's a reason for the generally higher price of games than CDs.

Oh come on, at least compare music from musicians you respect and games from studios you respect. No need to rap on the default example of "bad music" any more. Furthermore, how do YOU know how much time and effort it takes a musician to create their work ? I'm pretty sure many of them are hard-working people, working at least as hard as game-designers. The only difference with the bigger games is that there are more people working on them, total. If pirating a game is morally equivalent to shoplifting a TV, pirating music is probably morally equivalent to shoplifting a towel. It's still shoplifting, and no, it's not, in either case.

There are hardworking people in the music industry sure, just like there are scum in the gaming industry, and I should also say I've worked in neither industry.

All the same, I think game piraters have less of a moral leg to stand on than music pirates. A $220,000 fine for 24 songs or games is ridiculous, but moreso for music.

Riiiight. Because the game retails for $49.99, while the music retails for $19.99 ? That's reality. Neither warrant $220,000.00 fines, ever. The moral leg and the arguments from the "sharers" are pretty much EXACTLY the same. "I'll buy it if I like it." "If I share it, it gets more exposure !" "It's too expensive and EA is treating their employees like slaves, anyway !", etc.

I also would say that in both cases, nothing is actually stolen in the same sense that you would steal a car, and for the RIAA or ESA to sue individuals into bankrupcy with either is/would be dickish. The RIAA and ESA if they follow suit are the real bad guys here.

It's not just dickish, it's also short-sighted, immoral, and counteproductive. But I guess some lessons just have to be learned the hard way.

Re:Game piracy is a bit different

[CorporateSuit]

I hope you realize that much like a Sid Meier game, a Britney Spears album has a whole lot of talented folks behind the scenes who would like to get paid for the work that they do.

If they're not getting paid for what they do, they should complain to the RIAA and then quit. It's not my job to feed the undeserving mouths of today's pathetic entertainment industry. The crews should be asking for enough money to satisfy their needs during production, not some foggy purchase-based commission which consumer tastes will affect. Bonuses when a record goes gold, perhaps, but he should get all the money he earned before I ever have the chance to download "LudeThaCros - More Beats and Bumps (feat Missy Screeches and Daddy Yeah).mp3"

You know? Like every single other industry since the 1800's.

Re:Game piracy is a bit different

[Mistshadow2k4]

And what about what the game industry does to its paying customers? Remember Starforce? What about DRM so bad that you can't even play the game you paid for? Yes, that happened to me. I bought Neverwinter Nights 2, paid over $40 for it and it won't load in my DVD drive. I can't return it to get my money back either. (My co-worker, who pirated the game, didn't have that problem.) I can say with absolute certainty that will be the last money Atari ever gets from me, which shows you how stupid their draconian DRM is because I would have probably bought 10 more games in the future otherwise.

The games industry will screw you up one side and down the other any time they think they can't get away with it; they proved that with Starforce, which they kept using until the pressure from their customers got very heavy. In short, I understand that they have higher development costs, but from their treatment of their actual customers I don't see how they're any better than the RIAA. To Hell with them too, I say.

great

[nawcom]

I can't wait for the time when applying no-cd fixes will mean jail time. No, I haven't RTFA, but with the title including "RIAA Exec" and the game industry, I can only think of the worst.

Re:great

[arkhan_jg]

Circumventing DRM on a game (a copyrighted work) is already illegal under the DMCA*. As is making the no-cd crack, and distributing the no-cd crack.

In addition, sharing a no-cd crack on a P2P service (uploading) would most likely also be illegal under standard copyright, at least until 'making available' is overturned. The no-cd crack is a modified exe, which is a derivative work under copyright.

*17 U.S.C. 1201

          (a)(1)(A): Illegal to circumvent a technical measure copyright owners use to control access to their works
          (a)(2): Illegal to make/distribute tool to circumvent access controls
          (b)(1): Illegal to make/distribute tool to bypass other technical measures used by copyright owners to protect rights in works

Wrong turf

[unity100]

The gaming community are not like ordinary people in idaho, montana, who do not know about fair use, media cartel predation, overpriced products. not only that, but they are also a more cohesive, communicating group.

its a VERY bad choice for ESA member companies. Right at a time when gamers were starting to complain about games being all the same with sequels, and mass produced without a passion. Great move to take gaming companies prestige further down.

so, will anyone post a list of ESA member companies so we can start avoiding them ?

Re:Wrong turf

[zulater]

http://www.theesa.com/about/members.asp

...and They Were Thinking... What?

[MarkAyen]

Most facets of the entertainment insustry are closely scrutinized by the fan press. And there are fairly large overlaps between music lovers, movie buffs, videogamers, etc. So, you have to wonder if (1) the ESA didn't think anyone would notice that they hired one of the most hated execs in the music industry; or (2) they didn't think the fans would care; or (3) they just don't give a damn what gamers think.

I'm guessing (3), but given the bad blood between the ESA and -- well -- pretty much everyone else in the industry, you'd think they'd at least want to give the impression that they aren't a bunch of bastards with hearts of coal.

Re:And you thought the ESA was floundering before.

[ElectricTurtle]

Actually Penny Arcade eXpo is the new big dog in the hemisphere, and deservedly so. I've gone every year and it's unbelievably awesome. This year's is only a week away... and expecting ~55k attendees.

Closer to stealing, no

[phorm]

One is as-close or as-not-close as the other, however I would say that the way the game industry reacts to piracy is different.

For one thing, while the number of seperate big producers in the industry is shrinking (EA has eaten a bunch of them, for example), there is no overall collusive body for games like there is for music. Moreover, the games industry is a bit more segmented in terms of what they produce for: the RIAA members are still mostly using CD's in terms of public production, while the games industry has PC's and multiple consoles, etc.

Additionally, the game industry is a bit more fluid in terms of copy-protection. Yes, all methods will be cracked (and most methods suck), but you can't product a new method of CD-protection without breaking a lot of existing compatibility, and you can't introduce a new medium without some obvious benefit to the consumer (hence Blu-Ray's main competitor is still DVD in the movie arena), while new consoles (and new protections) come out somewhat more regularly as new graphics capabilities etc make them more appealing.

The last arena of course, is the internet. Games to much extent embrace it, and the music industry has been far from doing so in many cases. Distribution methods such as Steam have both conveniences and pitfalls for game-producers and consumers, but are more-or-less accepted by many at this point. Of course, the golden goose is in Pay-to-play online games such as MMORPG's, which provide a continue source of revenue while providing customers with a somewhat dynamic experience.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:LOL!

[Drantin]

Sounds pretty similar to pirate insult sword fighting...

Maybe they found that desireable?

[Trojan35]

"The same RIAA executive who defended a $222,000 verdict over 24 song files at an academic conference back in March, Kenneth Doroshow, is leaving the RIAA"

I'm pretty sure if he didn't defend that verdict, as an RIAA executive, he wouldn't have been an RIAA executive for very long. Maybe he's leaving the RIAA since he's realized their business practices are shit, and he got tired of defending them? I don't know, but it's possible.

Plenty of people on this site have worked for tech companies who have done some uncool things. Let's not pretend anyone who works for or with the RIAA is evil or an idiot. Honestly, I don't think they're idiots, they're just scared for their business model. And they should be.

Re:Maybe they found that desireable?

[NewYorkCountryLawyer]

"The same RIAA executive who defended a $222,000 verdict over 24 song files at an academic conference back in March, Kenneth Doroshow, is leaving the RIAA"

I'm pretty sure if he didn't defend that verdict, as an RIAA executive, he wouldn't have been an RIAA executive for very long. Maybe he's leaving the RIAA since he's realized their business practices are shit, and he got tired of defending them? I don't know, but it's possible.

When I mention that he defended it, I mention it to show that he is shameless, and would defend the indefensible. He brought up the subject. He did not have to bring up the subject of a verdict of $222,000 over $23.76 worth of song files, where the copyright infringement -- if it occurred at all -- caused damage in the neighborhood of $8. When I mentioned at the conference that the verdict had made us a laughingstock in the international community, our copanelist -- a Copyright Law professor from Australia -- agreed.

And how did he defend the verdict, by stating -- falsely -- that she 'might' have distributed '10,000,000' copies through Kazaa. As anyone familiar with software knows, her files probably could not have been copied by 100 people, let alone 10,000,000.

Part of me -- I guess my heart -- would like to believe that he left the RIAA because he was tired of defending them. But my brain tells me otherwise.

It's interesting, but....

[gnarlyhotep]

Not like the ESA is really a major concern these days. The games industry is hardly the Cabalistic oligarchy that the recording industry is. It's still quite possible for small/independant studios to put out a good product that garners high ranking sales, without the help of arbitrarily inserted gatekeepers.

What was ESA's big claim to fame anyway? Oh yeah, E3. And look at how shockingly important that is these days...

actually that list is full of shit

[unity100]

check them out - sony, disney, ea, microsoft.

most customer unfriendly, enemy of the gamer corporations you can find in the industry.

ESA is better

[Weezul]

Is the gaming industry ruled by a handful of monopolies like the music industry? maybe. Are gaming companies more connected with their consumer? maybe. Is game industry news more likely to slam miss-behavior. I think so.

So we could see some gaming companies begin abandoning the ESA if they employ the same tactics.