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German Customs Agents Raid Another Trade Show
JagsLive tips the news that German customs agents have shown up in force to raid the IFA consumer electronics show in Berlin. (The last time we discussed news like this was during CeBIT, in Hanover, last March.) 220 customs agents seized electronic gear from 69 different booths at IFA. The Register reports that this raid, like the one last spring, was touched off after complaints by patent firm Sisvel. "They seized equipment which will now be checked for evidence of patent breaches. A spokesman for German Customs told us: 'We've raided 69 companies today. We have seized equipment including flat-screen TVs, CD players, set-top boxes and MP3 players.'"
and all you german patent officials can shove your patents up your arses.
its absolutely appalling to see a european country axeing their own trade. and its not as if germany is a HUGE market like china or whatever.
Read radical news here
Patent laws are like landfills, every country has them, and they all stink.
"They seized equipment which will now be checked for evidence of patent breaches. A spokesman for German Customs told us: 'We've raided 69 companies today. We have seized equipment including flat-screen TVs, CD players, set-top boxes and MP3 players.'"
Now all they need is lots of beer and an upcoming holiday.
Who has the burden of proof to prove that patents were infringed? Shouldn't Sisvel have to provide evidence that these 69 companies are infringing on patents? Do German custom agents have to secure warrants to seize property? While not the U.S., I cannot believe that Germans would willingly stand for the police taking whatever property they believe could be stolen or based off another's design.
Also, would 69 different companies all choose Sisvel's products to infringe? I've never even heard of Sisvel!
Will Sisvel be held responsible if their claims are found groundless?
From the listing of devices seized, they must be spreading their patent claims pretty wide.
Either that or it has something to do in common with all those devices - maybe remote control?
I don't read AC A human right
O RLY?
> http://www.countryreports.org/economy/imports.aspx?Countryname=&countryId=91
You know how quickly someone can pull a gun at a trade show...
I dreamed of Freud: What does this mean?
And to think this would be a no brainer if the manufacturers only allowed FOSS Codecs to be used on the demo units.
Regardless if the claims hold merit, there is only one direction the shit will flow. People will quit reserving booths for these shows. Manufacturers will go outside of Germany. Then... what are you left with? Nothing being made in Germany, and no one wanting to exhibit their wares there either.
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
flat-screen TVs, CD players, set-top boxes and MP3 players
In other news, a world cup qualifier game has just been rescheduled for Mainz, Germany. No doubt the stolen gear will require further examination.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Christ almighty, maybe it is time for the Americans to start bombing....
Not Germany itself, just the next corporate wide Sisvel barbeque/picnic/whatever.
This space unintentionally left blank.
Afaik Sisvel is responsible for collecting the money on Mpeg Patents ... so pretty much everything using DVB-T without paying them fees is considered illegal. ... in the past Sisvel made its money in collecting fees for the volume bar used in all modern TVs. So you can clearly call them a patent troll.
But probably Cheney's idea
Cutting edge electronics, cheap! Look for van parked behind Customs Office. Prices marked on the bottom side of evidence tags. This sale comes around only once a year so don't miss out!
They just need upgrades and they have 0 funding for them so they need to do this.
I wonder if they will also look for Open Source Licence violations?
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
It'll be interesting to hear the howls when German businessmen start getting detained in Taipei and Shanghai. I have some news, the jails in Asia are not places where you want to spend any time.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
I'm not holding my breath, but the deterrent effect on German business competitiveness something like this can have might be enough to get politicians talking about what's wrong with their patent laws, or at least patent enforcement.
The PR war over patents has always been promoting innovation versus stifling it, with most business lobbyists lining up on the "they're good" side. In this particular case, though, the sides lined up are basically Sisvel versus everyone else, which may lead to some pro-reform lobbying (at least modest reform) even from usually pro-patent businesses. It also brings in other special interests who usually stay out of the patent wars, like the travel/convention industry.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Summer holidays just ended this very weekend in Berlin area.
605413? Yes, it's a prime.
There used to be "fair trade" laws in the US making it illegal to sell below "list price."
Hic iacet Arthurus, rex quondam rexque futurus.
Don't hold the trade show there next year. Don't reward stupidity by continuing to patronize them.
And, yes, I realize as an American saying that I'm inviting the same reaction to our thuggish behavior.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
1. Found new country or buy existing one.
2. Hold big trade show.
3. Seize lots of electronics for alleged patent violations.
4. Sell them on eBay.
5. PROFIT!
Isn't it kept on the books and still enforced (against mostly Turks and other minorities running little stores in minority neighborhoods) simply because it is the German Law and German Law must be obeyed regardless of how mean and stupid and senseless it is?
Yes, there is a fixed price on (new) books. But it has absolutely nothing to do with minorities. The fixed price was introduced to protect small bookstores/coffeshops, some of which also promoted local literature and culture against soulless discounters/pricedumpers like walmart. That worked actually pretty well until internet bookstore like amazon came up.
tl;dr: Godwins law - you lost.
Danke fuer diesen Augenoeffner!
Thanks for opening my eyes.
I have no idea if are just being sarcastic or an absolute dumbass.
The truth is, the law to contol the sales (Gesetz gegen den unlauteren Wettbewerb) is from 1909 (and that's _before_ Hitler, in case you didn't know) and the current regulation is from 1950 (that's _after_ Hitler), so it seems Hitler had some time travellers to aid in his fight against the jews leaving the country.
"Heaven is where the Police are British, the Chefs are French, the Mechanics are German, the Lovers Italian and it's all organised by the Swiss. Hell is where the Chefs are British, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Swiss, the Police are German and it's all organised by the Italians."
Well, the good thing is that the price binding doesn't exist for foreign books - that's why they can be sold as cheap as the store owner wants - which seems to be about four times sticker price. Yeah, Capitalism - it obviously works.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
Looks like an American had modpoints...
It's a joke, get over it.
This is my sig.
Yeah, it seems to be pretty strange.
Besides remote control tech, some sort of new take, perhaps. Maybe LCD display tech, or some technique in there? MP3 players, set top boxes, monitors? Maybe a tuner?
I don't read AC A human right
The summary says CD players were seized in the raid. This leaves me with a question:
Why?
If it is a CD player, what harm could it really do? Are they CD players that they suspect were made to play counterfeit playstation games or something? I'm not familiar with this "sisvel" company - how could they hold patents on CD players?
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5312696.stm
One can only guess what he means by 'the standard' and 'not possible to do it any other way', but then, Sisvel's ability to collect money for this depends on those illusions being true.
so it seems Hitler had some time travellers to aid in his fight against the jews leaving the country.
Oblig:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057701/
http://www.zombieapocalypse.tv/
I think it depends upon the size of the potential market. If businesses think they can make a profit, they will take a risk to attend the tradeshow. I'll bet that each company affected has somekind of internal review and looks at ways to develop effective countermeasures.Then it will be a business decision - cost of doing business vs. rate of return.
Wow, what a troll. Just some corrections so that people don't misunderstand this persons "claims"...
Isn't Germany the place where it is illegal for stores to put items on sale, except for a few days each year?
No. It was until a couple of years ago. There was a law about seasonal sales (concerning seasonal items like eg summer/winter clothes) which were only allowed to be put on sale. That law (introduced 1909) was abolished 2004. There was a law limiting how rebates could be given - indeed from 1933. That was abolished 2001.
Wasn't this law passed by Hitler (opps, my bad...can't say that word in Deutschland)
There is nothing to stop you from that.
because Jewish store owners were selling their inventory below cost in order to get the funds together to escape the holocast?
Since it was apparently introduced in 1933, that is quite unlikely.
Isn't it kept on the books
If you mean laws governing the pricing of books: yes
still enforced (against mostly Turks and other minorities running little stores in minority neighborhoods) simply because it is the German Law and German Law must be obeyed regardless of how mean and stupid and senseless it is?
Laws are often enforced in Germany, yes. But the examples you mention (apart from book pricing) are no laws anymore. The laws were enforced against any kind of shops. It was mostly small shop owners who complained about abolishing the rebate law, since they felt that this would put them in disadvantage against the big chains.
Good thing too that the Soviets and the Americans burned the whole country to the ground, killed millions of them, and chased the few good Germans (oh, excuse me, I meant to say 'the Nazis') to the ends of the earth. Otherwise they would still be throwing Jews, Gipsies, and homos into the gas chambers. After all, the law is the law, and it must be obeyed!
Strange you hate Nazis so much, since your mindset is so similar...
This is just Germans being German, but still it is incredibly stupid.
The US used to have the same laws. You know, back when the US economy was still doing well, the US didn't have a trade imbalance, and the future looked fairly bright.
Good thing too that the Soviets and the Americans burned the whole country to the ground, killed millions of them, and chased the few good
Thanks for outing yourself as a racist and a fascist.
Christ almighty, maybe it is time for the Americans to start bombing....
Where do you think this patent shit is coming from? It's coming from the US.
When the US patent system gets cleaned up, then the Europeans will follow.
Of course, bad as things are in Europe, European patent examiners are still considerably more responsible than US ones.
Does the CD player play mp3 files? Some do. If they do, then, in the estimation of the Axis Powers (Italians and Germans), they need a license from Società Italiana per lo Sviluppo dell'Elettronica. By the way, damnedest acronym I've ever seen: Soc...Ital...SVilu...ELett.... These are the kinds of perturbations folks normally go through to get an acronym that actually means something! Why not just call it SISE?
Hic iacet Arthurus, rex quondam rexque futurus.
There was a law about seasonal sales (concerning seasonal items like eg summer/winter clothes) which were only allowed to be put on sale
"... during certain weeks" I meant to say.
I'm willing to bet there's some hefty duties and bullshit stores have to go through to get those foreign books into Germany.
I doubt it. I also don't really think that English language books are generally much more expensive than German ones. It surely depends much more on the volume of sale (best sellers are cheaper than "exotic" books), and there might be larger differences between big shops (especially Amazon) and smaller ones. Difference that naturally do not exist for German books, since they are sold everywhere for the same price.
Just a random example: Ken Follett "Triple" as Paperback
amazon.de: 5.45 Euro -> $7.49 (that's after subtracting 7% German sales tax and converting with a rate of 1:1.47)
amazon.com: $7.99
Now, that's a single random example of an (apparently) current best seller book, so it does not say much about general price difference of English books between amazon.com and amazon.de. But in case there would be "hefty duties and bullshit stores have to go through to get those foreign books" it would be still surprising that amazon.de should be cheaper in any single case...
(BOOM !!!!!) Afaik Sisvel goes byebye !!
In Ireland every year there is a young scientist competition http://www.btyoungscientist.ie/ and I'm sure many/most other countries have similar events.
In the past this event has been sponsored by many large tech companies. Over the last few years I've always thought it would be nice to see some statistics on how many entries violate patents, particularly the winners (I also wonder how many times companies spot an idea at these show then apply for a patent knowing the entrant probably hasn't already).
Perhaps even disqualifying an entry if it violates a patent. Of course if you did that the barrier to entry becomes to high. Kids with creative minds get put off (all that legal and patent research), science and engineering subjects take a hit. Why do all that work when a vaguely worded patent covering a non-existent product means either you get left out in the cold while they license the patent that now has a use, or you enter an agreement where you get a small cut of the profit for doing most of the work, or you challenge the patent and if you lose get a bill you'll be paying for most of your life.
The good side to this is that it might make people more aware of the problems with patents and the need for reform.
Personally I think patents are/were a good idea, but some serious rethinking needs to be done the system at the moment favours large corporates to much.
So maybe we should tear into the school kids not shelter them, maybe after getting kicked out of a science fair because crop x has a patent on using a tabbed interface at least some the importance of paying attention to how you vote and why politics/voicing your opinion is important.
Otherwise they would still be throwing Jews, Gipsies, and homos into the gas chambers. After all, the law is the law, and it must be obeyed!
Nice use of slurs yourself there. I realize this is flameBAIT but i just want to point out how much you have in common with those you hate. Hate begets hate, whatever nationalism or racism leads you to hating German people is the same thing that lead to the atrocities of a short period of German history.
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
your speculative invocation of Godwin's law will be immortalized in an XKCD one day
Amen, Brother/Sister.
With the sometimes horrid quality of products sold, it is almost impossible for the average consumer to validate the authenticity of any given product.
If I need to be concerned that if I purchase a product, then resell it at some point in the future, that I may be held liable for that, criminally AND civilly, simply because I cannot not tell whether or not I bought an original/authorized version, then I am NOT going to purchase the product at all.
This is simply telling me that the simple act of purchasing a product may result in personal liability.
What is more surprising is that Germany exports as much (about) as the whole EU.
This is the problem with the double standard EU countries get to play. They get to stand alone in one set of statistics and then stand together in another set of statistics.
6-hit Internet pwnage combo with a roman cancel. GG
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
Most countries regulate sales. Walmarts & Borders drive out traditional stores if you don't. Even those Turkish shops are costing traditional business considerably.
I'm not sure why they are raiding trade shows, but maybe the cops are just enforcing the laws U.S. companies bought? If that is the case, great!
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
Threadjack ftw!
So, now in Germany, Customs can seize any yet-unreleased tech product and ... what, profit?
This world is such a sad place... I'm gonna buy me an official-looking costume and use that as a license to steal, too. Gonna make a killing on ebay selling next year's gizmos.
Making laws based on opinions that stem up from false informations leads to witch hunts.
The same were used against the Japanese or at least attempted to be when they were selling mini-vans so cheaply.
SISE was already trademarked?
They seized equipment which will now be checked for evidence of patent breaches. A spokesman for German Customs told us: 'We've raided 69 companies today. We have seized equipment including flat-screen TVs, CD players, set-top boxes and MP3 players.
They could have simply and politely bought these products (under the archaic theory that the makers are innocent until proven guilty) and tested them for patent breaches. If patent breaches are discovered then you wait for the next trade show and with your warrant or summons in hand you charge your perpetrator.
Seriously, what is with all this capitalist-driven use of armed policemen to enforce fucking intellectual property laws? This is all business stuff. You find someone breaks your patent you sue them and put them out of business.
And frankly, you have to be able to prove damages in an obvious manner. Demonstrate that you - or another legitimate competitor - would have been likely to obtain contracts and orders that were gained by unscrupulous infringers. And you must be able to demonstrate a conscientious intent to infringe. Perhaps it's not that easy for a Korean manufacturer to check the German patent records.
These kinds of draconian fishing expeditions by customs or other agents of commerce are patently stupid and should be illegal.
Man, I feel like watching Brazil again. It's such a prescient movie.
-- thinkyhead software and media
Not modpoints, mod*bombs*.
WE'RE NOT MODDING YOU DOWN, WE'RE LIBERATING YOU!
(Filter error: Don't use so many caps. Slashdot can't handle that amount of PURE AWESOME.)
... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about.
Why the need to raid a trade show, couldn't they have just bought the gear directly from the companies. This is nothing more than extortion ...
davecb5620@gmail.com
tell me what is preventing all other companies around the world from setting up factories in china and exporting to everywhere from there. hey - my bad, they ARE already doing it.
exporting doesnt mean zit. market size is important for having a clout. germany is a small market, doesnt have the clout many expanding markets (china, russia and the like) have in international trade.
Read radical news here
After the first time, why would anybody hold, much less attend, a technology trade show in Germany?
Come on! Isn't obvious? Why can't German Law Enforcement buy their home entertainment systems like everyone else for the next Euro Cup?
In a totally unrelated story; German police officer recruiting hits all time high as police stations now come equipped with flat-screen TVs, CD players, set-top boxes and MP3 players.
"Computers are a lot like Air Conditioners" "They both work great until you start opening Windows"
BURN
Good work.
Patents are granted on inventions, not ideas, not implementations of ideas.
Amazon flipped the whole sitution round. Back when the only option was to go to a big bookstore and hope to find something in the "foreign books" section, the stores would like to charge twice the price or more, they just knew you'd be appy if you found what you were looking for.
As for duties it doesn't really apply to good ol books. I believe there is no duty on importing books to europe, but I can't be assed to back this up. And even if there were, they could buy the UK edition and avoid customs completely. Another contributing factor is, like you say, that the sales tax on books is only 7% as opposed to the normal 19%.
Don't see much in the way of SISEes on the internet. Actually, they could have called it SISEL, which does mean something, though not related to their business, unless you picture them tying up the manufacturers and beating them with rubber hoses.
Hic iacet Arthurus, rex quondam rexque futurus.