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India Joins Nuclear Market

figona brings news that India will be allowed to join the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG). A waiver was approved yesterday that provided an exception to the requirements that India sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and the Comprehensive Nuclear Test-Ban Treaty. This means India will be able to buy nuclear fuel from the world market and purchase reactors from the US, France, and Russia; something it has been unable to do since it began nuclear testing in 1974 (which inspired the creation of the NSG). The waiver does not include terms to cut off access if India resumes nuclear testing, but the US Congress drafted a letter stating their willingness to do so. Opponents of the waiver have called it a "non-proliferation disaster."

19 of 377 comments (clear)

  1. Place your bets now! by LighterShadeOfBlack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How many minutes until Pakistan demands the same treatment?

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    1. Re:Place your bets now! by Hurricane78 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What the fuck do you know about Pakistan and India? A whooping(sic) can of shit!

      India and Pakistan (and in fact Bangladesh too) are the same people! They got divided by the British empire over the ambiguous decision of calling the zone with mostly Muslims "Pakistan". Now in fact, there are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan, and India always was a multi-religious country.

      It's the whole bullshit of external empires separating areas into "countries", that originally was the land of intertwined tribes. Those tribes lived side-by-side. And nowadays it's expected that they beat each other up over some made-up bullshit!

      It's the same as my father had to experience and caused the death and torture of my uncles and my grandpa in Afghanistan. There the Soviet Union and the USA fought for resources... The Soviets did it by invasion. And the USA did it by giving the Afghanis weapons to fight them. But in fact, nobody cared for the people. Nowadays - after the soviets are gone - the USA *had* to invade Afghanistan, because one of *their own people* turned against them and was supposed to hide there. While in fact he's in USA's allied countries until this day, but they can't attack those countries, because they have the oil *and* the cash, and china supporting them by buying the oil. So the USA can't force those countries to sell to the USA anymore. (Hence the now normalized gas prices in the USA.)
      So now the Afghanis have a nearly complete population of people that have never seen anything else than war, children crippled by mines and hate.

      And you expect other countries not to hate you(r government)???

      So please: If you haven't got a clue, STFU and stay out of other people's business and countries, and stop lamenting about some bullshit intrigues between those countries that your leaders told you!!!

      Just so you don't thing I'm trolling here: I am in fact half Afghani and half Luxemburgish, and I like Americans like the ones here on Slashdot, the ones like Jon Steward, and many more. But seriously: Fix your government issues. Shoot people who admit openly that they want to cut the education budget, people who act based on superstition and criminal crooks fucking your constitution system. It's your country! (In fact most countries would be better off if they followed those rules :)

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      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    2. Re:Place your bets now! by XchristX · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are mostly right, of course. But keep in mind that politics, ethnocentrism and religious (primarily Islamic) mania has divided the populations of South Asia for some centuries now. The British, much like the Portuguese in Africa, merely exploited divisions that were already present and aggrandized them (they didn't create those divisions) for their own purposes (keep the sheeple fighting each other so they don't notice us while we take over their land, eh wot old chap?)

      India mostly survived the pressures of decolonization with it's collective skin intact. B'desh and Pak were less fortunate. Poor Afghanistan has been screwed over by all this most of all.

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      l'Homme n'est Rien l'Oeuvre Tout: Gustave Flaubert to George Sand
    3. Re:Place your bets now! by XchristX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The only solution I see is for India to reabsorb Pakistan and Bangladesh

      Arre pagal ho gaya hai kya?? Are you fucking insane? India is still very much a developing country with it's own internal issues and problems. You want us to "absorb" a recalcitrant, hostile, genocidal population that is taught to hate before it is taught to read and are ideologically indoctrinated to want our destruction?

      Why? We should keep as much distance between us and them as possible and cultivate better relations with western countries instead, focus more intensely on poverty reduction, reducing oil dependency, infrastructure and the anti-AIDS stuff, beef up our miltary to protect our borders and stamp illegal immigration from Nepal and B'Desh, and all that (imagine shouldering those burdens for the starving millions in B'Desh, there are enough of our brothers starving on our own soil).

      Pakistan won't last long anyway. Already, East Pakistan broke away, Waziristan declared independence just a few years ago and Balochistan insurgency is in full swing after Nawaab Akbar Bugti has been declared a Shiite "Shaheed' (Islamic martyr) after the Sunni-dominated Pakistan army assassinated him. The Muttahida Qaumi movement is rising in Sindh. Now that Musharraf the dictator is out of the picture they will hold "democratic" (ie staged) referendum, effectively "elect" (ie dragoon) a bunch of Islamic nutters to power like they did with Nawaz Sharif, and start blowing each other up with renewed intensity. India cannot afford to deal with THAT can of worms. Let Pak be America's problem, and Bangladesh remain the royal shithole that the Bangladesh Nationalist Party made it into. We should focus on developing our own country into a stronger and more prosperous nation.

      Empire building==bad idea.
      Nation building==good idea.

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      l'Homme n'est Rien l'Oeuvre Tout: Gustave Flaubert to George Sand
  2. Dunno... by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    India is already capable of building nuclear weapons, and are (theoretically) more than able to sell that tech to the highest bidders if they desired (I honestly don't see them doing so - just saying they can).

    I'd be a hell of a lot more worried about Iran (which has arguably sponsored terrorism) than India (which has been nothing but friendly towards anyone who isn't Pakistan, and the latter for obvious reasons). While yes things may change, I just don't see India as being the type to sell nuclear anything, to anyone, in the foreseeable future.

    Iran OTOH? Well, what are the non-proliferation folks doing about that? Not much, from the looks of it. If they want to concentrate their efforts in any particular direction, I'd have them staring a bit more to the west of India...

    /P

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    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    1. Re:Dunno... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I totally agree .. people who put India in the same category as those Islamic fanatic nations just because some of its citizens wear turbans and keep beard are completely ignorant. India is a multicultural multireligious pluraristic socieity. Also India is constitutinally SECULAR. Yes sometimes there are sporadic incidents of intolerance and violence but what else can you expect when the country has just been independent for 60 years, have been robbed by its colonial masters for centuries and still is a fully functioning democracy with the second largest population in the world? You cannot compare what India has contrbuted towards peace in earth (hint: a half naked guy who shook the british empire and who has been inspiration for many others) with what Pakistan had to offer. India needs the nuclear fuel to produce cheap energy.. its too hot out there and they all need the air conditioning just like you do.

  3. Re:My government is hypocritical by iNaya · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Indians don't go around chanting "Death to America" for starters, nor do they have a crazy self-indulging senseless control freak for the head of their government. India has a tendency to honour international agreements, while the DPRK tends to flout them over and over again.

    Besides, anyone has a right to sell something (or not) to someone for whatever reason they have. If I decide I don't want the USA to have any of my little pink bunnies, while letting the UK have them, what's wrong with that? My decision.

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  4. Re:My government is hypocritical by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

    On the one hand, there's no way that they'll let Iran or North Korea even so much as attempt to build a reactor, but as soon as India wants on the scene

    And how many Japanese citizens has India captured and held against their will in the last few decades? How many times have they threatened to wipe a neighbor off the map?

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    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  5. Re:My government is hypocritical by Penguinisto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Err, what?

    India has had nuclear weaponry since the 1960's (or '70s?). Iran probably doesn't have a nuclear weapon, and North Korea may or may not have one.

    Besides, when given a choice between a relatively peaceful nation that already has nuclear weapons (and the means to deliver them), and arguably hostile regimes who are trying to lay hands on one?

    In short - you must be joking, man.

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    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  6. Re:My government is hypocritical by gregbot9000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You're an idiot. I'm sure you'd say it's hypocritical to only let the psycho kid have safety scissors too? Iran, North Korea, are balls to the walls nuts. We try hard not to let them have nukes because THEY WOULD USE THEM. Last I checked, India is doing better as far as democracy then some of the other "BIG" countries that have recently invaded a smaller one.

  7. Re:Why Is India Not a Signatory? by arthurpaliden · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For the same reason that the United States will not sign the land mine treaty or the law of the sea treaty. National self intrest.

  8. Re:My government is hypocritical by caffeinemessiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How isnt India hostile? They have nukes pointed at Pakistan and Pakistan has nukes pointed at them. They are CONSTANTLY fighting over Kashmir. This could be percieved as an escalation or at least a way to unbalance the MAD equation in that part of the world.

    Nukes pointed at country X....check.
    Country X has nukes pointer at them...check.
    Constantly fighting over country Y....check.

    Funny...the US seems to fit that bill for being "hostile" pretty well too. Let's not forget that India is a large, stable, secular democracy with a decent non-proliferation record in spite of not having signed the NPT, has a strong economic interest in remaining peaceful and friendly with China and the U.S., and is consenting to international oversight of nuclear facilities as part of this deal.

    Since India has the toys and is much more stable than Pakistan,NK and Iran, it's better that they place nice than if they don't. This is the safest, most practical and pragmatic way of ensuring that.

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    An old-timer with old-timey ideas.
  9. Re:My government is hypocritical by Kenrod · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Iran is not a democracy since its federal government can disqualify any candidate for any reason and often does.

    It is a fascist theocracy that is actively exporting its ideology. It is the worst kind of government to have a nuclear weapon.

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  10. Re:My government is hypocritical by Kenrod · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's only hypocritical if you consider all governments to be equally responsible and trustworthy on the international stage.

    Which is nonsense, not all countries are created equal. Iran's government was created by a violent theocratic revolution and continues to be that to this day. North Korea was created in a violent Stalinist revolution and continues to be that to this day.

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    Good heavens Miss Sakamoto - you're beautiful!
  11. Re:My government is hypocritical by iNaya · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been almost everywhere in South and East Asia. Never been Europe or the Americas though, maybe they shout "Death to America" over there...

    I can see no reason why a news organisation would show people in the Middle East shouting death to America, but wouldn't show it if it happened in India. I'm pretty sure it would. It would certainly be a lot more interesting if it happened in India.

    But Indians seem more concerned with their internal problems and the cause, rather than concerning themselves with whether it was something the Americans/Europeans did. Which is a complex which occurs a lot in China (generally the newspapers / commentators) and Korea (generally random protests).

    And yes I've been to India, Korea and China. All for reasonable amounts of time (over a year each). I have also met a great deal of Iranians, none of whom wished death to America.

    And I've never ever seen any Western recorded footage of people in Iran shouting "Death to America", perhaps you should look up the facts of that incident. It was a country wide chant, and it was recorded officially by various Arab channels. It's their government that's crazy, but the Iranians I've met seem much more friendly than most Americans I've met.

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  12. Re:My government is hypocritical by Firethorn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Secular? No country with a caste system is secular.

    You still haven't broken the analogy. Back during the cold war we had a caste system as well, remember? It was based on the color of your skin.

    By the same token, India is fighting their own caste system. Arguably it's a lot like our fight against discrimination; you run into problems that even with official government mandates that the people in the government positions to enforce that mandate are for the discrimination, so frequently ignore said mandates. Just like in our case, it's going to take generations, and it doesn't help that their caste system has been around longer than our country.

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    I don't read AC A human right
  13. Get real by WindBourne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ALL Nuclear powers have first strike policies. ALL OF THEM. Basically, if they are being overrun by another country, they will use them. This include USA, Russia, China, England, France, Israel, and I am quite sure India and Pakistan. In fact, if not for the nukes, I suspect that one of china, India, and Pakistan would have invaded the other by now. As it was, China had no issues with attacking India before they had the bomb. They now do a lot of subtle manipulation esp. on the eastern state, and now on the northerns.

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  14. Re:My government is hypocritical by XchristX · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Er, the casteism isn't state policy in India. It's a social malaise. You could just as easily say that the US isn;t a secular country because of discrimination against non-Christian minorities (and you would be wrong).

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    l'Homme n'est Rien l'Oeuvre Tout: Gustave Flaubert to George Sand
  15. its not the revolution, its what's established by unity100 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    afterwards, that matters.

    in u.s. and france, democratic pluralist regimes were established, based on human rights concepts outlined and developed by 18th century enlightenment. (btw, you are still basing your entire society on these even today).