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US DoD Poll On Leap Seconds
@10u8 writes "For time scales to leap, or not to leap, has been the question here before. The ITU-R will be considering leap seconds again in a few weeks. This week the USNO posted a survey about leap seconds by the US DoD. The issue has civil implications as well as technical ones, and there is a demonstrated way to respect the history, remove leaps from navigation and POSIX time, yet keep the sun overhead at noon."
I thought we had leap years to take care of the discrepancy between our calendar and the actual orbit around the sun. Would a leap second even be made longer by any noticeable amount? What about sporting events? Someone who misses out on a world record by a tiny bit would complain that the record h older had more leap seconds in his race! (Okay, that one was a joke, but the rest I'm serious about)
Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
No there isn't, but you can make it culminate at noon.
rj
I'd be more interested in killing Daylight Savings Time than dealing with Leap Year.
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Leap seconds correct for the rotation of the earth to keep the sun above at noon.
If we dispense with leap seconds then this relationship will slowly change and noon will eventually be dark.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
I'd be more interested in killing Daylight Savings Time than dealing with Leap Year.
My cat wakes me up in the morning. She doesn't adjust. Because of her, I'm a morning person. Unfortunately, 90% of society are night people. Meaning, any social activity is past my bedtime and I become a wet blanket because I start yawning at everything at 20:00.
We don't need even one more second of Bush presidency. :)
There should be a planned algorithm that kicks in,
This assumes that we know when, in the future, we'll need to insert leap seconds. And we don't.
Leap seconds are introduced in order to compensate for medium-term variations in the earth's rotation speed. We don't have a good understanding of the way the earth rotates -- knowing what UTC time it will be in ten years' time is about as difficult as predicting the weather for next week-end.
> There should be a planned algorithm that kicks in, and the simplest one that actually
> does the job should be used.
There is none. The rate of rotation of the Earth is slightly irregular in a not entirely predictable way.
> I don't think I even own a time keep device where this level of accuracy matters.
> Perhaps my GPS?
Definitely your GPS. It cares about nanoseconds.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
and if anyone doesn't like leap seconds, all they have to do is use one of the time scales which don't use them, like TAI.
It's exceedingly silly and stupid for people to keep trying to change UTC so it doesn't track solar time. That what it was intended to do. If you made the wrong choice, live with it, or change time scales. If it's being forced on you, quityerbitchin', and convince whoever decided on UTC to change. Stop trying to turn UTC into something it isn't, there are other people out there who made an intelligent decision, and depend on it's characteristics.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Let's just remove the problem entirely!
I suggest... the French Republican calendar.
And a good Tridi, 23 Fructidor, Year 216 to you too.
That's exactly the point. Changing software in military or even space systems isn't exactly trivial, maybe not even possible, plus you need a method to constantly provide (UT1-UTC) to the systems that rely on UT1 (astronomical time) being equal to UTC by less than a second. Like the radio controlled clock in your home. Or the time signal transmitters would have to be redefined not to transmit UTC but some new time scale, which would be a mess for GPS.
UTC without leap seconds is basically TAI (international atomic time) - a strictly linear SI second timescale as precise as we can reproduce it.
Just distribute (TAI-UTC) and (UT1-UTC) together with the usual time signals, leave UTC alone (with leap seconds) and you're all set and can use what you need. There is no one time scale; Einstein told us so. Better accept it.
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That's correct, because correcting the epoch for leap seconds would cause glitches in positioning as the corrections were applied. Instead, GPS broadcasts a UTC correction so the receiver can convert to UTC if required: ahref=http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/sigspec/gpssps1.pdfrel=url2html-16574http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/sigspec/gpssps1.pdf>
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Navigation depends on time. The Navy is very interested in navigation. That's why they established the Naval Observatory in 1830.
USNO employs some of the formost experts on the subject. They are soliciting the opinions of some of the other stakeholders.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
The problem being, the need for a leap second is not predefinable, unlike a leap day. Leap seconds are needed to compensate for slight (millisecond range) variations in the length of each day, due to the earth's rotation speed not being constant. We currently cannot predict those variations, and as such, the leap seconds are determined based on astronomical observation and applied as needed.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
No they don't. If you'll look at the chart in the Wikipedia article, you'll see that since they started using them in 1972, they've never had to subtract a second. Either no change, or +1 second.
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... does anyone know if the rotation of the earth around the sun mean that we actually rotate 366.25 times per revolution, or 364.25?
Yes, of course someone does.
Definitely your GPS. It cares about nanoseconds.
But so long as all the satellites are in sync with their atomic clocks showing the same time, does it matter??? Even without them being in sync, doesn't the GPS use time and rough location to locate the satellites (unitil it's logged on) and then isn't it the round trip time taken by signal that's being measured? Is there any dependancy on leap seconds?
GPS doesn't use UTC for its measurements; it uses its own system of GPS time for its measurements, and then calculates UTC using a correction value transmitted by the satellites in order to be able to display UTC (or any other UTC-derived time) for the user.
Also, it doesn't "log in" in any usual sense, as the communication is purely one-way, from the satellite broadcasts to the receiver. Thus, it also doesn't measure round trip time, because there is no round trip. What it does is to receive the signals from multiple satellites, each of which essentially transmits a signal saying "I'm satellite number A, my location is B, and the time is C", and then solve a system of equations to figure out what time it was when it received the signals from each satellite, and thus how long each one-way trip took. Then it can do the geometry to figure out where it must be. The actual mechanism of accomplishing this is a whole lot more complicated, but on a very simple level, that's what's being done.
The reason it takes at least four visible satellites to produce a 3D fix is because it needs to solve a system of at least four equations with four unknowns: X, Y and Z spatial coordinates, and time. More than four satellites are normally needed for good accuracy, since the each measurement is usually a lot more noisy and less precise than is desired. Additional measurements let the receiver do more math to try and filter out the noise.
I think the US should have one time zone, and it should be based on NYC time. -5/-4 UTC for everybody! Who cares if California would have the sunset at 2230 today?
Fine by me, and I'm a native Californian.
There's no rule that says business hours need to be 9 to 5. Since you already have to convert what "time" it is in a faraway place you're calling, it's not a big deal. In San Francisco, I can't make any calls after 1pm to East Coast offices and expect to get anything done. What the clocks say over there doesn't really matter. For all intents and purposes, New York business hours are 6am to 2pm from my perspective.
I'd be content for the entire planet to move past the idea of time zones entirely. It's an outdated idea from a time when you needed physical references to the passing of time, and when it didn't matter that the times didn't line up in faraway places. Just think of all the things it would simplify: flight arrivals/departures, conference calls, news stories--and it would make am/pm an unnecessary distinction, too. 0514 would really be 0514. Everywhere. I'm okay with "business hours" for me being, say 0100 to 0900, and 2200 to 0600 in some other place. They're just numbers.
Tradition and conditioning, however, are unbeatable--and the idea of "noon" being the middle of the day has undeniable intuitive appeal (even if it's rarely accurate).