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Greek Hackers Target CERN's LHC

Doomsayers Delight writes "The Telegraph reports that Greek hackers were able to gain momentary access to a CERN computer system of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) while the first particles were zipping around the particle accelerator on September 10th. 'Scientists working at CERN, the organization that runs the vast smasher, were worried about what the hackers could do because they were "one step away" from the computer control system of one of the huge detectors of the machine, a vast magnet that weighs 12,500 tons, measuring around 21 meters in length and 15 meters wide/high. If they had hacked into a second computer network, they could have turned off parts of the vast detector and, said the insider, "it is hard enough to make these things work if no one is messing with it."'"

15 of 445 comments (clear)

  1. Why is that even possible? by Reality+Master+201 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why can anyone get to the control systems for a piece of equipment like that from the internet?

    1. Re:Why is that even possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      security updates?

    2. Re:Why is that even possible? by sakdoctor · · Score: 5, Funny

      Vista needs to phone home for activation.

    3. Re:Why is that even possible? by Bogtha · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, right, as if the LHC has enough horsepower to run Vista!

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    4. Re:Why is that even possible? by X0563511 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I know you are being funny, but CERN uses Scientific Linux.

      SL is a Linux release put together by Fermilab, CERN, and various other labs and universities around the world. Its primary purpose is to reduce duplicated effort of the labs, and to have a common install base for the various experimenters.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    5. Re:Why is that even possible? by VJ42 · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's called "the grid". just do a google search for "LHC grid" and you'll get lots of info. Here's a couple of links for starers:
      http://lcg.web.cern.ch/LCG/
      http://www.gridpp.ac.uk/cernlcg.html

      The BBC has a less tchnical piece on te grid: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7534866.stm

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
    6. Re:Why is that even possible? by AlXtreme · · Score: 5, Informative

      My understanding is they have the LHC linked to universities/research firms/supercomputers all over Europe simply in order to process the massive amount of data that thing generates.

      You're correct (I did an internship recently on data management with the LCG/EGEE network). It's a massive multi-tiered network of datacenters (something like 50k nodes, 15PB of dedicated data storage, but don't quote me on these figures), all required to distribute the enormous amounts of data collected in the experiments to the researchers capable of processing the data.

      I'm not going to be an ass and piss too much on the work of thousands of others, because it took quite a bit of effort to set this up, but them getting hacked doesn't really surprise me. The architecture they set up (even for only data-distribution) is very complex, and a lot of software they use has been written in-house or has been forked (years ago). Oh, and it's all open source, readily available for whoever looks for it. With the LHC being such a high-profile target, this is IMHO a security nightmare waiting to happen.

      In what I've seen, I'm crossing my fingers that this break-in isn't related to the grid network, and that the next few months will go smoothly, but the grid has been primarily designed for high throughput, not security. Sure, they have certificates you need to access the grid systems, the policies are there, but technically I have my doubts.

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      This sig is intentionally left blank
    7. Re:Why is that even possible? by smolloy · · Score: 5, Informative

      These things are internet connected in order to allow on-call technicians and facilities management to check/fix it remotely. All big machines work like this. Everyone claiming that it shouldn't be connected to the internet has never worked with a machine like this (PS: I have).

      Seriously, we need to stop the hysteria over this. It's not like you're presented with a "destroy the world" button when you log in!

      No, you'll land at a bash prompt. And then what? You won't know the commands necessary to get to the control system software, and, even if you did, you'd only be able to randomly tinker with magnets. This will either have no effect whatsoever, or will be prevented by the machine protection system.

      The worst you can do is to interrupt operation for a while while they kick you out, and restore any changes you made (which would be easily done from automatic history software).

      This is bad -- any crack like this is bad -- but it's not gonna cause black holes, it's not gonna release radioactivity, and it's not gonna break the machine.

      People need to calm down.

  2. Greek Hackers by darth_MALL · · Score: 5, Funny

    Any chance they had a Trojan Horse at the ready?

  3. Well the world WOULDN'T have ended... by KalvinB · · Score: 5, Funny

    but some jackasses decided to mess with things they knew nothing about.

    I'll get my towel.

  4. Computer security rocket science by Yetihehe · · Score: 5, Funny

    See? See? Computer security is harder than building 27km ring with enough precision to smash single protons!

    --
    Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
  5. LHC webcams by GoNINzo · · Score: 5, Funny

    I found an interesting video feed for the system they were accessing.

    http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html

    Watch it for a minute, you can see the effects the hackers are having on them.

    --
    Gonzo Granzeau
    "Nothing the god of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for.." -Roy Batty
  6. Air gap and 15 Petabytes of data annually by fejes · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Ok, I know you want to think that this can be done... but how exactly do you air gap a system that produces 15 Petabytes of data annually and share that data with 100's of labs around the world?

    By manual entry, copying this data across the air gap (120wpm) would take:

    15,000,000,000,000,000 characters /(120 words/minute * 6 characters/word) = 4*10^7 years.

    Even passing that back and forth on hard drives means shutting about (15Pb/365/24 = ) 1.7 Terabytes per hour. (24 hours a day.)

    At some point, you have to admit that just connecting this thing to the internet and securing it is the right thing to do.

    --
    The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
  7. Re:you question the actions of the scientists? by Medievalist · · Score: 5, Interesting

    remember: everything PhDs do is art. everything. including using their alma mater's mascot name as their password. art, i tell you!

    Years ago (when I still worked in science) I got a call from the US military. It seems one of our scientists was attacking one of their systems.

    Since the scientist in question was on the other side of the world on a field trip at the time, it seemed likely that someone had compromised his account, and I shut it down.

    When I eventually asked the scientist if was using a strong password, he was proud to recite a long dog-latin linnean binomial. It was very difficult to spell or pronounce.

    Of course, that was also the first word you saw if you searched for his name on the Internet (using WAIS, since this was before commercial search engines). This particular scientist was the world's foremost authority on the organism with that difficult name, and had published dozens of papers on it.

    To put it in modern geek terms, it was like this guy was Bill Gates, his userid was gates, and his password was microsoft.

    The idea that criminal hackers might actually look up his name came as a total surprise to this world-famous scientist with multiple PhDs...

  8. Misleading Telegraph by hairykrishna · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The two key sentances of the article are:

    "If they had hacked into a second computer network, they could have turned off parts of the vast detector "

    "We have several levels of network, a general access network and a much tighter network for sensitive things that operate the LHC," said Gillies.

    Basically they defaced a web page which is hosted on a server which is nothing to do with the LHC control network. Haven't we had enough ridiculous LHC scare stories yet?

    --
    "Physics is to math as sex is to masturbation." -R. Feynman