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Getting an Independent Project Started?
nightgeometry writes "Just as everyone has a book in them, as the saying goes, maybe everyone has a software project in them. I have an idea for a project; it is something I would want, but googling doesn't find me anything similar. My programming skills are not amazing, to say the least, but I can design and QA. I'd happily learn to code, but lets face it — getting to a good standard would take me years, by which time I would be bored of the project. So, my question is: in this situation, should I set up a project on SourceForge and hope to attract some developers there? (And if so, how do I attract developers?) Should I try a rent-a-coder type of site and outsource the work, or perhaps attempt to approach developers personally and share the idea, or something else entirely? I think the project could be worth something, but I'd certainly open source the idea if it got me the app I want. Then again, I am happy to invest some cash in the idea, and thus cover said outsource costs — it isn't a huge project that I am considering, and I really think a competent developer could probably get the thing done in a week or less (I'm not in cloud cuckoo land here; I've worked in the software industry for over ten years, and I'm confident that it's a fairly simple idea). To me, the question is interesting in two ways. Once I have a specific idea, what are next steps? Then, in general, what do people do at this stage (and this isn't specifically a software question; it would apply just as well if I thought I had a good design for a new engine or a new type of beer)?"
On the Kvr Audio/DSP forum they have the following sticky:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=194452
It says basically, that A. Programmers want to scratch their own itches, if you want them to scratch yours, you need to pay them.
B. Non-programmers have no idea how hard or big a certain project would be, because even experienced programmers rarely fully do.
and C. If you want to get attention you have to tell people what the idea is, because keeping it secrete (so no one steals it, ostensibly) only suggests that you are vain and have unrealistic expectations.
I have to second the comment.
I have on my back-up drive about 30 half-dead projects I did for different purposes. Few of them are usable. Many of them were merely proof-of-concept stuff. Probably none of them has any new ideas.
I'd say, Web search engines now are the most impeding factor for programmer's ego: whatever brilliant idea one could possibly come up, some research shows that it is not new. Or it was tried before and failed. Or you have already in Debian repo a ready tool to do the work.
I do not know how to attract people to projects. All I can say (from my personal experience) it is pointless to try to attract people actively (but I say that in real life too - and I'm still single).
Best one can do is to keep working on idea (regardless of what Google says). If you really persistent, if you somehow publish the record that you are doing it - Google would do the rest for you. Point is that other programmers might stick with some active project simply out of curiosity. And after some time, if project still interests them, they might also contribute. That's how many projects have started. The most important bit here: somebody has to be ready to be a center of project and also has to work actively on the project. Others have to have something to tag along with.
P.S. Another parallel from real life. It is often said that (as opposed to women) there is no friendship among men. They just happen to look and go in the same direction. Or to the programming: if you keep developing idea in direction others can follow you, other would follow you - accidentally.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
[...] if you somehow publish the record that you are doing it - Google would do the rest for you.
Forgot to mention a not really fitting example of how Web search is effective.
Some time ago I was literally driven nuts by one new feature of VIM. I spent some time digging and after many attempts found a solution: how to disable the feature.
So I have published on my blog (that was three years ago) a half-inflammatory post about where the hell modern text editors are headed to with the solution to my problem. Google did the rest: now the post has about 30 comments, most of which are "Thanks for info" ones. And I did precisely nothing to promote that I have found a solution to that particular problem.
So somehow publishing your idea with implementation sketch - even on blog - is a good start.
SF.net is also good place and I used it successfully several times. It works really well for making releases. With source code hosting I had some problems. Posting news there (or more to the point: finding something posted on SF.net) is not simple, so I would advise to use some simple blog for your pet project. (Or probably by now SF.net has some service similar to blogs.)
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
I don't know that the poster actually cares if he owns the idea or not. He simply stated that he wants to be able to use the program he's envisioning. If it's an open source product or even a closed source product that he has to purchase, that's ok. Making money from the project didn't seem to be the high priority here. His issue is that he doesn't currently have the skill to create it himself and feels there is probably a faster way to complete the project rather than spending the time to learn how to program first. He's even willing to pay for the development, but wants to know how to do so in the most efficient manner.
Personally, if it's something useful that others would find useful, he should probably just post the idea. It could very well be that a similar project already exists, or someone out there is working on something similar and just hasn't had the motivation to complete it yet. Even if someone runs with the idea, writes the program and sells a million copies, he can still buy one of them and he'll be happy.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
I've found this works when you're approached by an "ideas" guy. Ask:
a. So what do you think our odds of success are?
b. So how much do you think this idea will make?
c. How long would I need to work on it?
d. What cut were you offering me again?
Calculate (a) times (b) times (d). Determine a fair amount of pay. Multiply it by eight. If they're being rude or disrespectful, double it again. This is your consulting rate. Multiply this rate by (c) to determine what it would cost to pay you to do the project at this rate.
In the rare event that the first number is less than the second, you simply explain about your consulting rate, and explain that it simply isn't profitable for you.
In the more common case (optimism) that the first is greater than the second, say it sounds like a great idea, but you are going to propose something that is even more profitable to them. Say you'll work on it for them at your consulting rate. Explain that based on their figures, factoring in the odds, they'll make even more money if they do it this way. All they need to do is track down the seed funds to pay for your time. Show them the figures to show how it would be more profitable to them.
If they say they don't have the money, mention the potential profits again. Ask why they aren't keen to do the legwork to find the money (loans, etc) when this approach is the most profitable to them.
If they bring up what you could potentially make if you went for the profit share, say that it's fine, but the risks and rewards belong with the person who originated the idea. If it's a success, they deserve the extra profits. You're happy to help them realise their idea, if they like, at your consulting rate.
If they say they want to split the risks, say the exact same thing.
Generally in the following discussion the real risks and rewards will come up, and they'll give up and leave you alone.
If they're actually keen to go ahead and find the money (extremely rare- never happened to me), weigh up whether the deadline and project is actually realistic. Explain the risks and potential problems that may come up, and that the nature of development is such that you can't guarantee success. If they're still game, congratulations, you've landed a consulting gig at a premium rate. If not, they've left you alone.