Spore DRM Protest Makes EA Ease Red Alert 3 Restrictions

Crazy Taco writes "The heavy Amazon.com protest of Spore's DRM appears to have caught the attention of executives at EA. IGN reports that DRM for the upcoming C&C: Red Alert 3 will be scaled back. Unlike previous Command and Conquer games, the CD will not be required in the drive to play. The online authentication will be done just once (rather than periodic phone calls home), and up to five installations will be allowed, as opposed to three for Spore. While I still think five installations is too few (I've probably re-installed Command and Conquer: Generals 20 times over the years for various reasons), EA says they will have staff standing by to grant more installations as necessary on a case by case basis. So, while this still isn't optimal, at least we are getting a compromise. Hopefully, if the piracy rate for the game is low, perhaps EA will get comfortable enough to ship with even less DRM in the future."

Comments

How is this a compromise?

[ccguy]

They are just saying 'OK, Spore hurt too much and the customers are making too much noise. Let's use a smaller dick with the next game'.

What they should do is be honest and describe the limitations in the box.

-Warning: Zero resale value.
-This game can only be installed 5 times.
-This game will refuse to run when other applications are running or installed.
-Some applications will be installed to verify playing rights. These applications will be running even when the game is not.

Would that hurt sales? If they think they are offering a reasonable 'compromise' then they should just do it, and no one will have a reason to complain.

If they think it would be suicidal to do it, then they know they are still fucking their customers. So expect no sympathy.

Re:How is this a compromise?

[LrdDimwit]

Agreed. They still programmed the game to self-destruct. On purpose. So it's still unacceptable; If there's even a chance that, should I want to replay the game in 10 years, but I pop the game in and can't install it, then I'm not buying it. And if your game isn't good enough I'd want to play it twice, it's probably not good enough I'd want to play it once either.

Fundamentally, there is an important point with DRM on works of culture that's not applicable when applied to the things DRM is usually applied to. At work, for example, the provider of our middleware application has implemented license checks that could cause the same kind of issue. But a middleware app won't work cause it won't activate anymore? It's probably out of support anyway, time to move to a new version.

Businesses don't usually need a particular version -- and if they do, and it's a big enough showstopper, the vendor comes out and does a hot fix so new-version does what old-version did better. (Yes you can, I've seen it. You just have to need it badly enough.)

Games are different. Halo 2 is not the same as Halo. Twilight Princess is a very different game from Zelda 64. The "upgraded" original Star Wars trilogy cuts are widely seen as inferior to the original versions. Then there are games like Planescape: Torment, which is essentially unreleaseable (Interplay died, D&D license expired, uses 2nd edition, content wouldn't pass Hasbro's restrictions). So while enforcing obsolesence on middleware *might* be OK, it's definitely not OK to make video games that are essentially guaranteed not to work in 10 years.

So nice try, EA. Good, but not good enough. Games have an aesthetic quality; a given game is totally unique and irreplaceable -- that's why we like them.

Re:How is this a compromise?

[hansamurai]

And EA still has no obligation to fulfill more than 3/5 installs. 10 years from now when I want to play Spore will those staff still be standing by to help me out or will they instead suggest to buy Spore 3 and go screw myself?

Re:How is this a compromise?

[wondershit]

Very true. The answer remains no.

Solar Empire has no copy protection at all and has sold half a million copies.

There is something very wrong. I don't want to ask for permission to use something I legally bought. DRM server crashed? Sorry, no gaming for you today as it happened with Bioshock. There is absolutely no excuse for doing such a thing. Not piracy and nothing else. At least not in the way it is handled now (and I don't know of any unintrusive alternative).

Re:How is this a compromise?

[claytonjr]

So nice try, EA. Good, but not good enough. Games have an aesthetic quality; a given game is totally unique and irreplaceable -- that's why we like them.

How is this even considered a nice try? How is this considered good? It is not good. Its fucking pathetic.

Not that I endorse it, but piracy exists for a reason. EA is just adding fuel to the fire, by treating their customers like they are crooks. As if the people that pay money, for this crap, can not be trusted.

Re:How is this a compromise?

[fastest fascist]

EA has no motivation to give a damn about your playing the game in the far future. For them, the ideal would be to sell you a 50 currency-unit game that you maybe start once and then never play again. The instant you pay for a game that game starts to eat into EA's revenue because as long as you're playing it, you have less incentive to buy a new one. (And they have to ship bug fixes, maybe run servers etc. depending on the game.) That they have to provide you with a reasonable amount of content to get you to play the game is an unfortunate reality.

Re:How is this a compromise?

[ccguy]

Warning: you don't BUY software.. you rent a right to use license.

Sorry, no. I could be *BUYING* a license (plus physical media) which are then mine to resell.

Re:How is this a compromise?

[aywwts4]

Exactly, and that's IF EA still exists! I can't think of a single PC game I own that hasn't been re-installed over 5 times. Lets play a game, Going through my old PC game library, I can just imagine how some of these calls would have gone down had these kind of restrictions existed when I was a kid.

"Hello, Interplay? Yeah, I need to re-authorize Descent and Conquest of the New World, whats that, There are like, ten people working at your company and you are mostly bankrupt? Getting evicted from your offices? That sucks" (side note, interplay has no way to contact them at all on their years old single image webpage, though they have apparently sold some assets recently)

Hello, Vivendi Universal, yeah I need to authorize some of my games, Well it was a Sierra game, you know, before you bought Sierra, oh you know that, good. well actually Sierra bought this company a decade before that, so can you authorize it? Oh they took those servers down years ago along with the multiplay lobby? Right...

Hello, Activision, I know this might be a long-shot, But I was trying to re-install some of my Infocom games and, well you shut them down in 89... Yeah, you own their games, really, never heard of it? Zork? Nothing? Well I'm wondering if you can activate it for me, why are you laughing? What's so funny?...

I love playing games old and new, and I certainly expect that just as I can pop in super mario bros or sonic into my old systems, that I can also reinstall old PC games forever and ever, (on the OS they were designed for) The games industry is a volatile place, the rock solid big player of one decade is the next decades dinosaur, becoming a forgotten footnote in a companies IP portfolio.

Re:How is this a compromise?

[DJCacophony]

Or buy it, don't open it, and return it, to inflate their return numbers.

If the piracy rate is low?

[sdhankin]

I don't see how that affects their decisions. Spore has reportedly been pirated half a million times - how has the DRM changed that? All it's done is piss off the paying customers, who are being treated like criminals.

DRM doesn't work against pirates. It only works against the honest people. When will companies learn that?

Re:If the piracy rate is low?

[Aereus]

To the contrary, I think it's probably driven MORE people to pirating the game just so they can say "screw you" to EA for the excessive DRM.

Re:If the piracy rate is low?

[hairyfeet]

Because this has NOTHING to do with piracy. I repeat: NOTHING at all to do with piracy. This is a plan by EA to take out the used games market and take away your right to first sale. So if you care about your right to sell games you no longer want then DO NOT buy this game or Spore! Until EA removes ALL the limited activation crap and gives us back our right to first sale I will no longer buy ANY EA game. No MoH,No Madden,nothing. And if enough of us do that then we can fight EA where it hurts:in the wallet.

Also be sure to stick bad reviews pointing out the limited activation DRM into Amazon and every review site on the web you can find,because I would have gotten "Spored" if I hadn't noticed the negative reviews and I'm sure I'm not alone. If we don't then every other company will see EA get away with it and think they can do it too. Do you WANT to have to sit on the phone for hours doing a little monkey dance for all the different game companies when Windows borks? But as always this is my 02c,YMMV

Less Piracy - Less DRM? WRONG!

[Ambiguous Coward]

Hopefully, if the piracy rate for the game is low, perhaps EA will get comfortable enough to ship with even less DRM in the future.

That's not how it works. If the piracy rate is low, they will herald their measures as a success, and it will only serve to increase the amount of DRM in the future.

-G

Re:We will not compromise

[hairyfeet]

Damn,here they go,making sure i won't buy their damned game. Do they have ANY idea how much money we old guys have spent on the C&C games? I bought RA I&II,and C&C:Renegade. Then when I heard about the Decade Pack I went out and bought it since I wouldn't have to fool around and deal with a bunch of discs when I wanted a C&C fix. Now here I was,all jazzed up to buy C&C:RA3,and then they have to do that limited activations crap. There is NO WAY IN HELL I'm going to get on the damned phone and do a little monkey dance for EA just to install something I PAID FOR!!!

I bet the pirates are laughing their asses off at the way EA is screwing themselves and turning off their customers with their limited activation "Secure Starforced Buttraper V2.0". It is like they are saying "Hmmm. Well we left a few customers able to walk after the Spore crap. Lets take something really cherished like C&C and stick it to them hard!". And lets face it: This has NOTHING to do with piracy,NOTHING AT ALL. This is about EA always hating the used game market. If you care anything at all about your right of first sale DO NOT BUY this game!!! I hope EA is happy,as I won't be buying another piece of software from them,I don't care if I found Spore and C&C 3 in the $1.99 bin. But as always this is my 02c,YMMV

DRM, the snake oil of content producers

[David Gerard]

No airtight DRM is possible (and Spore's already been cracked). But content producers are so obsessed with absolute control that they'll beg people to take money to sell them snake oil. Of course, this always works. Yeah.

Others speculate the real target of game DRM is to kill the second-hand market. But, of course, that does no good when the competition is the cracked copies. Piracy: The Better Choice.

Re:Yeah, sure its because of some comments on Amaz

[garett_spencley]

"I'm not really sure what's the way to go on it, but I know posting some BS FUD on Amazon like "SONY ROOTKITTED ME OMG!" and claiming victory when they raise the install limit to 5 is not the way to go."

I buy from Amazon a lot.. and I've also been waiting anxiously for Spore. So I went on over to Amazon the other day to pre-order it and was a little shocked to see 1 star ratings. So I read the reviews. They were a very far cry from "SONY ROOTKITTED ME OMG!". They were thorough, intelligent, well thought-out and actually educated me on the whole securom thing as I haven't been on /. that much lately and missed the article(s) about Spore's DRM.

Anyway, the comments actually persuaded me to not buy the game. I don't feel like paying hard-earned money for something that will only install X number of times (even if the number is 1,000 I don't care. Like other people I've still got games that are 15+ years old that I install every once in a while for old-time's sake) and will phone home and require an Internet connection every time I play it etc.

Customer feedback is the single most important thing that a business needs to pay attention to in order to succeed. Restaurants can not grow without reading comment cards and responding to their customers complaints and suggestions. Game companies can not grow by pissing off their customers. If EA ignores the negative feedback about this DRM then they deserve to be out of business in a couple of years. I was going to e-mail them to explain why I decided not to buy Spore but I couldn't find a contact address. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Not about piracy...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Hopefully, if the piracy rate for the game is low, perhaps EA will get comfortable enough to ship with even less DRM in the future."

It's NOT about piracy, it's about removing the ability to transfer your game to someone else (used game sales, lending to a friend, etc).

Re:We will not compromise

[mpeskett]

Buying things is quick, easy, and without hassle. Pirating on the other hand is a pain in the ass, time consuming, and risky. My time is worth more than what it takes to pirate

I have the exact opposite leanings. To go buy a game I have to go out to some shitty games store (the ones around here are all shitty, your mileage may vary) and that takes time out of my day. At the very least I have to go online and buy it, and then it takes a few days to arrive. Pirated copy... takes minutes to find a torrent, then I can leave it downloading in the background and when I come back later it's done

Hell, it's not worth my time to not pirate stuff

Re:We will not compromise

[Meagermanx]

I'm sorry that you haven't been fully informed about the release of the new Command and Conquer: Red Alert game.
While there is, indeed, a version with restrictive Digital Rights Management(DRM), there is also going to be another version completely free of DRM. I'll run you through a quick comparison of the features of both versions, so that you, the consumer, may make an informed decision regarding how to spend your money.

Version 1.
-Can only be installed 5 times.
-Installs spyware on your computer.
-Comes with box and manual.
-$49.95

Version 2.
-Can be installed any number of times.
-Does not install spyware on your computer.
-Will likely be released several days before Version 1.
-Available for download from the comfort of your own home.
-$0.00

Have a consumptive day.

It's All About

[Nom du Keyboard]

It's all about one thing. Absolutely killing the rental and resale market. You can't even give it to your kid brother when you're done with it.

Be honest! Spore is nothing more than a very expensive rental game now -- not a purchase.

And the only way to make this all go away is to absolutely refuse to buy their product because other manufacturers will follow suit.

I've never pirated a game, but if I wanted to try out Spore I'd pirate a cracked copy of this one.

Re:We will not compromise

[Smoke2Joints]

i dont know about you, but piracy these days is a piece of proverbial piss.

1) download iso
2) mount iso, install game
3) enter cd key in .nfo file included with iso
4) copy crack from CRACK dir in cd root dir
5) enjoy your game without DRM

do the above, and you will have pre-2000 gaming experience with regards to copy protection. its amazing that these companies still actually think their DRM actually stops pirates. as i recall, spore was released to the pirate community days before the actual release. if it can be cracked, it will be. why punish the actual customers?