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10 Years of Translated Bin Laden Messages Leaked
DragonFire1024 lets us know that Wikileaks has obtained 10 years of messages and interviews by Osama bin Laden, the leader of al-Qaeda. The documents were translated and the messages and interviews were authenticated by the US CIA. "The nearly three hundred page, 'official use only' packet from 2004, translated by the Foreign Broadcast Information Service, a division of the CIA, includes interviews with bin Laden from various news agencies and also includes messages he sent directly to the US from the periods of 1994 to 2004. One message includes bin Laden's denial of having anything to do with the September 11, 2001 attacks in New York City, Washington DC, and Pennsylvania."
Wow, if the source is credible that's pretty damning. For those who don't like to RTFA:
One message includes bin Laden's denial of having anything to do with the September 11, 2001 attacks in New York City, Washington, D.C. and Pennsylvania.
"Following the latest explosions in the United States, some Americans are pointing the finger at me, but I deny that because I have not done it. The United States has always accused me of these incidents which have been caused by its enemies. Reiterating once again, I say that I have not done it, and the perpetrators have carried this out because of their own interest," said bin Laden on September 16, 2001, just five days after the attacks.
To me the timing of that message seems far more relevant to 9/11 than a vague message 4 months prior that he could "make life miserable for the United States", "If the Taleban allowed". It seems that in as much as we've had to deal with manufactured evidence to serve the cause of the Bush administration regarding the Iraq war now it's clear that the CIA has also withheld critical counter-evidence that the American people and its allies should have been aware of. Could this message have been too sensitive to release? Well, they seemed to release other messages and video around the time of the event that helped make the case and build support for war..
Anyone who stores local copies of these on their own computer and then get arrested/checked at customs can expect to be answering some very unpleasant questions.
No really, western security services are getting far too paranoid.
A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
"One message includes bin Laden's denial of having anything to do with the September 11, 2001 attacks in New York City, Washington DC, and Pennsylvania."
I don't understand, I was told he is directly responsible for everything that is wrong with the world!
Me lost me cookie at the disco.
I remember Bin Laden denying the attacks. I even remember quite a few people holding up the defense that Bin Laden couldn't have done it because "Muslim is a religion of peace". (Not that the two really go hand in hand, but it was the reaction of the time.) What is interesting here is something I missed when I heard the reports back in 2001. The key reason why Bin Laden denied his involvement:
Bin Laden had a pretty cushy safe-haven there. He figured as long as he didn't piss off the Taliban leaders, they'd give him safe haven. And he figured the U.S. would not attack a sovereign nation. Which may have been true under Clinton, but he probably miscalculated how much the political climate was going to change once those towers fell.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Wow, if the source is credible that's pretty damning.
Erm, the "source" in this case is a known terrorist who issued a fatwa in the 1990s calling for Muslims around the world to kill Americans every chance they get. How "credible" can he be? Seriously, there is nothing new here. Bin Laden gave interview well into late 2001 claiming that he didn't do it. (And he probably didn't "do it" in any direct sense, since we know KSM was the main planner who put the operation together). But he has since given speeches praising the "magnificent 19" (what he calls the hijackers) and clearly taking credit for being their inspiration. Whether or not he had any direct hand in it, he was the leader of the organization responsible, and he had been calling (over and against other jihadi leaders) for attacks on the United States (the "far enemy") for quite some time. This message was not "too sensitive to release" -- it differed little from other messages he was giving at the time.
I wish someone had just assassinated that fucker...
Instead you re-elected him because Faux News said his opponent looked French.
How we know is more important than what we know.
While I definitely agree that all kinds of evidence has been withheld from public knowledge, there are a couple points....
First, this is nothing new. Bin Laden has always denied involvement. The only time he acknowledged being responsible, was in some supposed sham video that was "found" in Afghanistan, and claimed by the CIA as some sort of smoking gun proving he did it.
Second, while I certainly have never seen a solid piece of evidence proving that he was involved... Him saying he wasn't involved isn't exactly proof of innocence either. He is after all a crazy bastard who thinks it's perfectly ok to murder people because of the country they were born in.
not that Bin Laden would ever lie... nor would Bush.. They're both angels!
Just because one's lying doesn't mean the other is telling the truth.
16 Jan 2004, 8:58am
Tim,
Can you bring some milk and bread over please?
Thanks,
O
18 Jan 2004, 5:24pm
What happened? I'm starving out here you know! I can't just pop down to the shop for supplies, it's a freaking desert out there!
22 Jan 2004, 3:42pm
Tim,
Are you mad at me? Is that why you're not talking? I'm sorry I was angry in my last email.
Just drop by, we'll talk and drink coffee. You'll need to bring the coffee though. And some milk and bread. Maybe honey too. I like honey.
O
28 Jan 2004, 5:30pm
Bob,
Can you check up on Tim for me? It's like he's frozen me out or something. I just want to know everything's okay.
Also, can you send me a few bottles of milk and some loaves of bread. Maybe honey and jam too. Oh, and coffee! Not that I need to stay awake out here. You never think you're bored until you're stuck in a cave in the wilderness. Luckily I've got ADSL here.
Thanks, and say "Hi" to Mary and the kids for me,
O
29 Jan 2004, 12:37pm
O,
I think Tim's gone. Looks like he left in a hurry. Typical of his type - I told you about him, you'll remember. Anyway, I'll get Chuck to drop over some supplies in the next day or so.
Look after yourself,
Bob
29 Jan 2004, 3:52pm
Damn it! I thought Tim was different. I thought he had commitment, you know? What happened to people who could take the long view?
Anyway, thanks for getting chuck to drop the food over. I appreciate it - there'll be an extra virgin for you in the afterlife!
Can you remind Chuck to bring a can opener? I don't want to have to shoot these ones open. Those soldiers nearly heard me last time.
Thanks again,
O
Exactly. Bin Laden is not in "charge" of Al Qaeda like Blowfeld was in charge of SPECTER. He is a figurehead and inspiration for groups that choose to call themselves affiliated with Al Qaeda. KSM was one of the masterminds of 9/11 and one of Bin Laden's chief disciples. Bin Laden did not come up with the idea of 9/11, mastermind it, organize it, or probably even fund it. He did, apparently, approve of it though beforehand and take credit for it elsewhere afterwards.
Disclaimer: IAAIA (I am an Intelligence Analyst)
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Whether or not he had any direct hand in it, he was the leader of the organization responsible,
Whoa... stop right there.
A terrorist organisation - or at least, one that's even remotely successful for any length of time - doesn't have the pyramid-style management structure that you're used to seeing.
Instead, it has a bunch of loosely-organised small groups, each consisting of no more than a dozen people. These groups may have a little communication between them but by and large they're fairly autonomous - they just use a common name to identify with the common cause they share. This is why it's damnably difficult to efficiently infiltrate the organisation - put simply, nobody knows much about anyone outside their own group and this is by design.
It follows that even if there are a few people who are considered inspirational by most within the organisation, getting rid of those few people won't necessarily achieve much. In fact, it could well be counter-productive because you'll turn them into martyrs.
The summary makes it sound like Wikileaks has some kind of mole in the CIA who handed them documents in a shadowy meeting on a grassy knoll... Wikileaks only "obtained" the documents in the sense that "obtained" means "read about in a blog." The documents were first published a couple days ago on Steven Aftergood's excellent newsletter, Secrecy News.
"Who thinks it's perfectly okay to murder people because of the country they were born in."
Take a look at our soldiers and contractors and, hell, our government, and the treatment of Iraqis over in the sandbox. What right do we have to treat them like that?
It's incredibly naive to think that bin Laden is the only one who thinks that way.
And this is coming from a Staff Sergeant who has seen action over there.
"On December 20, 2001, German TV channel "Das Erste" broadcast its analysis of the White House's translation of the videotape. On the program "Monitor", two independent translators and an expert on oriental studies found the White House's translation to be not only inaccurate, but also manipulative saying "At the most important places where it is held to prove the guilt of Bin Laden, it is not identical with the Arabic" and that the words used that indicate foreknowledge can not be heard at all in the original Arabic. Prof. Gernot Rotter, professor of Islamic and Arabic Studies at the Asia-Africa Institute at the University of Hamburg said "The American translators who listened to the tapes and transcribed them apparently wrote a lot of things in that they wanted to hear but that cannot be heard on the tape no matter how many times you listen to it."
- David Stein
Computer over. Virus = very yes.
"Saddam had no WMD's"
It's funny, and hypocritical in the extreme how everybody keeps claiming that.
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is doubting even in the slightest that Saddam did this :
http://pukmedia.com/kurdish/images/stories/news_small/m4.2008/halabja%20kolag.jpg
The halabja campaign ... a series of rocket-based poisonous gas attacks comitted by the Iraqi government (the fire order was given by the very son of Saddam) against it's own citizens. Nobody doubts it happened. But for conspiracy theorists it's a really very very very inconvenient truth.
After all, using those weapons obviously proves Saddam had rockets that distributed poisonous gas upon impact. Obviously every single weapon that does this is classified as WMD. It's true that they were not found. Given that Saddam actually USED those weapons that does NOT bring the question "did Bush lie ?", it merely brings the question "where are these weapons now ?". Unless you actually believe Saddam would shoot every last of his best weapons at unarmed civilians.
Can we please bring some common sense into this ? If we know a guy shot some children, then gets arrested with powder on his hands, but without a gun, that does not mean the witnesses who saw him shoot lied. It merely means we're short a gun. That would be a VERY good reason to search the neighbourhood for said gun (especially if the next door neighbour is a Jew hating theocratic massacrer like the Iranian government).
"Unless you actually believe Saddam would shoot every last of his best weapons at unarmed civilians."
Or that he dismantled them. As he has said to other people, even in private. Why are you erecting a strawman ? The timing is all that's important here. Yes, Saddam used awful weapons on his own people. But that wasn't the question. The question was: did he still have them later on, and the answer to that, it seems now, is: no. Therefore, did Bush lie ? We don't know, but it looks like it an awful lot.
Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
After numerous rounds of "We don't know if Osama Bin Ladin is still alive," Bin Ladin himself decided to send George W. Bush a note in his own handwriting to let Bush know that he was still in the game.
Bush opened the note which appeared to contain a single line of coded message: 370HSSV-0773H.
Bush was baffled, so he E-mailed it to John McCain. McCain and his aides had no clue either, so they sent it to the FBI. No one could solve it at the FBI, so it went to the CIA, then to the NSA.
With no clue as to its meaning, the FBI finally asked Britain's MI-6 for help. Within a few seconds, MI-6 cabled back with this reply: "Tell Bush that he is holding the message upside down."
Wassup homies. Just wanting to let y'all know thanks for plugging my 10th year anniversary!
Me and the Taliban Massif have got some great stuff coming out for the anniversary, including the long awaited Osama - The Best Of album. Which includes my duet with Britney Spears: "Afghan Rose (Best get yo' Burka on Bitch)". And my own take on that famous Bob Marley classic: "No Jihad No Cry".
All that plus remixes by Pete Tong, Basement Jaxx and newcomers The Scientology Crew with their remix of my gangsta-rap classic: "Pop a Cap in G Dubya (Smack my Xenu Up mix)".
Love,
Osama B. and The Taliban Massif
ROCKETS that distribute large doses of chlorine upon impact ARE WMD's.
And yes if your chemistry teacher were to make a rocket like that, that would be a WMD.
Here is the big issue with this factoid.
Halabja, March 16, 1988
Kuwait invasion / Persian Gulf War August 1990
Iraq War, March 20, 2003
I think once we already go to war with someone, then end that war, and then wait a decade, we cant consider anything that happened before that "evidence". After `91 anything would be fair game, but it looks like Saddam actually kept his nose pretty clean, He probably figured it was all he had to do to keep his position, and that bush wouldn't dare invade without a good reason. Little did he know how unstable our leaders were eh?
The claims the bush administration fabricated involved vials of anthrax and large amounts of yellow cake uranium and weapons grade aluminum with long range missiles that present a clear an imminent threat to America's national security. I don't remember the "For the people who died 15 years ago!" rational for war.
Web Developers: Celebrate to our roots! Animated Gifs and Tiled Backgrounds, dont let our history die!
Tell that to any remaining WW1 vets and see what response you get.
"Why not write something useful"
In this conversation? OK.
Don't worry about OBL. Worry about the Russian bombers in Venezuela. Worry about the possible share market crash when Wall Street opens. Worry about Pakistan allying with Russia if you cross its border once again. Worry about the unidentified sub seen in Japanese waters.
Then, at the end of all that, don't worry about it because there is nothing you can do about it. Be happy, love one another, and believe in yourself.
I reserve the write to mangle english.
I guess it's impolite to mention at this point that we've just spent 5 years killing the exact same people we're demonising Saddam Hussein for killing, isn't it?
I guess it's really impolite to mention that killing people in a country that hadn't attacked us, hadn't the means to attack us at the moment, and had no plans to attack us in the future makes us murderers.
It's been a long time.
Men's News Daily? World Net Daily? Buh?
From your Washington Post link:
From your Fox News link:
Hmmm. Way to support your own argument there.
So yeah, sure, he had some rotting leftovers, but not the massive "set to attack the US" stockpiles they beat their drums about leading up to our 2003 invasion. Yeah, not everything got dismantled. But, was that malice or incompetence? Looking back at that Washington post article:
Sounds like malice to me. Oh wait, no, that's incompetence.
Program Intellivision!
Framing Osama bin Laden for 9/11 does not make any sense, it's just plain paranoid.
Actually, there's a fairly straightforward "theory" that makes sense of it. To see the basis of the theory, look up the media coverage of the WTC attack on 2008-9-11. It's fairly clear from the start that: 1) The authorities and media were totally taken by surprise and unprepared for what was happening; but 2) It was immediately clear who they were blaming. Within the first half hour of news coverage, the media was producing a steady drumbeat of "Osama bin Laden ... al Qaeda ... Osama bin Laden ... al Qaeda ... ". They didn't know who did it, but they knew who they were going to blame.
US government agencies weren't much heard from during the first day, probably because they were too busy. By the time they got around to talking to the public, they understood that the job of picking a scapegoat had already been done for them by the media. So they just went with it.
They didn't much want to actually capture bin Laden and his cohort, of course, because they knew that they had little evidence against him that would stand up in any court. He'd probably walk free, with a big propaganda win. From the viewpoint of the Bush crowd, his value wasn't as a jailed or executed criminal; his value was and is as a Foreign Devil. They were interested in finding and punishing the actual perpetrators, yes, but there was little point in going after Osama & Co when they were doing such a commendable job as Foreign Devils.
Of course, this is yet another theory based on sketchy initial facts and little actual inside information. But it does make a bit of sense. It acknowledges the usual government bungling and total failure to pick up on the WTC attack before the fact. It also acknowledges the media's penchant for fomenting mass hysteria and scapegoating of Foreign Devils. And it handles the puzzling question of why US authorities (government and media) show so little interest in hunting down the minor clerical figure who supposedly was the mastermind of it all.
Why not pick a scapegoat who is either easier to blame (like Saddam), or completely fictional (1984 style).
The public image of bin Laden and al Qaeda is mostly fictional. It's true that there are a handful of real people behind the names. But what people "know" about them is pretty much a media creation, with little basis in their actual beliefs or actions. The public Osama is a creation of Hollywood and media newsrooms, with little attention to the person behind the name.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.