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Mozilla Admits Firefox EULA Is Flawed

darthcamaro writes "Mozilla has now come around and is taking seriously the concerns of Ubuntu and others about the Firefox EULA, which we discussed vigorously the other day. In fact Mozilla told InternetNews.com that the EULA itself is flawed and will be replaced with something else. Quoting Mozilla Chairperson Mitchell Baker from the article: 'There is a need for something, something to explain the license[.] I'm not sure I would call it a EULA because that has a meaning to many people of adding restrictions to software and we won't be doing that. We'll be having a license agreement much as Red Hat has a license agreement that says the software is available under the GPL and don't use our trademarks et cetera. So we'll have a license agreement but we won't think of it as a EULA.'"

14 of 312 comments (clear)

  1. Mitchell's own words by savala · · Score: 4, Informative

    Read Mitchell's own words.

    I really don't understand why people keep linking to silly "news" sites when there's pretty much always far more comprehensive and accurate information available directly at the source.

  2. Re:not a EULA eh? by Drooling+Iguana · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you remove the "use" from the second line of your post it becomes much more accurate. The GPL only imposes restrictions on how you can distribute software. Anyone can use it however they want.

    --
    ... I'm addicted to placebos
  3. Re:It isn't the specifics... it's the principle. by Nathanbp · · Score: 4, Informative

    Assuming that you have obtained the software legally (for example, from somehow who is distributing it under the GPL), you need no further rights granted to run it. The GPL gives you the additional right to distribute the software (under the given conditions). However, the GPL also contains some things (like a disclaimer of warranty), which do apply to all end users.

  4. Re:A rose by any other name... by Kjella · · Score: 4, Informative

    They still don't get it. Anything you have to agree to with an "I agree" button, no matter what they call it, is a EULA.

    According to this you will not have to. Summary points:

    • Makes the license grant parallel to the MPL;
    • It has optional terms that govern services provided by Mozilla through the browser (e.g. anti-malware and anti-phishing services). A user may opt of the services and continue using the browser;
    • The license grant excludes trademark rights; and
    • The license doesnt require explicit click through.
    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  5. License Notification, Warranty Agreement. by randomc0de · · Score: 2, Informative

    Mozilla needs to have 2 things. A license notification - this software is free to use and available for redistribution under the GPL - and a warranty agreement - by using this software, you agree it is not covered by any warranty or guarantee, period. Trademark issues in the agreement are useless. Their trademark is already covered by trademark law, and only needs the "TM" symbol next to it for protection. I can't copy someone else's novel or software simply because I didn't "agree" to their copyright. It exists whether I agree to it or not. The only thing Mozilla needs protection from is guarantees of use and warranty.

    --
    Three rights make a left. Freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly.
    1. Re:License Notification, Warranty Agreement. by onefriedrice · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, you're wrong on both.

      1. Mozilla doesn't need a license notification for the GPL because A) Firefox is not licensed under the GPL, and B) Even if it were licensed under the GPL, that license applies to distribution, not use. I'm sure you've probably used GPL software before without having to agree to anything beforehand...

      2. Mozilla should not use the trademark (TM) symbol as a means to protect their Firefox brand because "Firefox" is actually a registered trademark. They should (and do) use the registered trademark symbol (R).

      --
      This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
  6. Re:It isn't the specifics... it's the principle. by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Informative

    If I decline the gpl license, what right does I have to use the software?

    The person you got the software from gave you the right to use it, because he accepted the terms of the GPL (or was the copyright holder).

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  7. Re:It isn't the specifics... it's the principle. by Wordsmith · · Score: 2, Informative

    That you think you need special rights to use the software is a consequence of the EULA-happy environment corporations have been creating for a few decades now.

    If you obtained the software legitimately, you can do anything you want with it, short of unauthorized redistribution (which is prevented by copyright). You can use it in any way you want. If you own a table, you can put your dinner on it, you can stand on it to reach your chandelier, you can barricade your door with it, you can chop it up for firewood -- it's yours to do with as you see fit. Same thing goes with software.

    What the GPL and other similar licenses so is grant you permission to redistribute the software (which otherwise wouldn't be allowed), so long as you follow certain conditions (in the case of the GPL, making the source code available). If you reject the terms of the GPL, that's fine -- you can still use the software. But you no longer have permission to redistribute it.

  8. Re:My primary question... by claytonjr · · Score: 2, Informative

    You are correct. A EULA is a EULA. If they want a tool to explain the license, then they should probably opt for a preamble.

    A very popular example would be the preamble to gpl2.

    http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.txt

  9. Re:The GPL must be complied with, period. by chromatic · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you do not agree to the GPL, you cannot use the software. It is as simple as that.

    See Section 9 of the GPL v3:

    You are not required to accept this License in order to receive or run a copy of the Program.

  10. Re:It isn't the specifics... it's the principle. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Wrong. You don't need a license to use software, period. There is NO legal requirement to have a license to use software.

    Only to copy & distribute - coypright law.

  11. Re:It isn't the specifics... it's the principle. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    No, the GPL contains nothing that applies to all end users qua license. The disclaimer of warranty is not something that they need you to agree to, nor is it something that they are demanding you agree to, to use the software. It is simply a notification. From the GPLv2:

    "Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not covered by this License; they are outside its scope."

    And before you mention that running a program requires copying it: such copying is not protected under the Copyright Act at all, by explicit exemption:

    US Code 17.1.117

    The GPLv3 is less explicit about this in the earlier sections but nails it in section 9, Acceptance Not Required for Having Copies (emphasis mine):

    "You are not required to accept this License in order to receive or run a copy of the Program. Ancillary propagation of a covered work occurring solely as a consequence of using peer-to-peer transmission to receive a copy likewise does not require acceptance. However, nothing other than this License grants you permission to propagate or modify any covered work. These actions infringe copyright if you do not accept this License. Therefore, by modifying or propagating a covered work, you indicate your acceptance of this License to do so."

  12. Re:It isn't the specifics... it's the principle. by compro01 · · Score: 3, Informative

    The FSF's idea of free software has 2 "levels" of freedoms.

    Basically, when the programmer releases their software under the GPL, they are granting everyone freedoms 0 and 1 (to use it for any purpose and to modify the program) by the terms of the GPL. You or anyone else do not have to agree to anything to get those freedoms, not the GPL, not anything. You are given them without conditions by the programmer.

    Now, the GPL comes in. If you choose to agree to the terms it offers, you get 2 additional freedoms (to redistribute and to share your modifications with everyone), rights that you otherwise don't have, and also accept a few requirements, such as making the source available. If you don't agree to it, you still have those 2 previous freedoms (0 and 1), but not these other 2 (2 and 3), and do not have their requirements either.

    Freedoms 0 and 1 are granted just as you say "just does not make any sense". I'm not sure why you feel it doesn't make sense. Are you suspicious of the concept of getting "something for nothing"?

    --
    upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  13. Re:Legitimate Need? by mr_matticus · · Score: 3, Informative

    Is there a legitimate need for a EULA?

    Is there a legitimate need for license text? Yes. I won't get into the idiotic "EULA dance" Slashdot armchair lawyers engage in. 'EULA' is not a term of art. A document calling itself a EULA means whatever it says it means. It could also call itself a Pony License if the licensor wanted.

    An SLA, regardless of what it is: proprietary, BSD, GPL, contains a great deal more than simply a license grant. It is an agreement that imposes specific terms and restrictions on all users of software. It contains a number of important notifications by convention (because inclusion in the license is the easiest way to give valid legal notice and prove knowledge in litigation), from warranty disclaimers, limitations of liability, choice of law, trademark/patent notices, and other relevant concerns. In any given SLA, the license portion is dwarfed by the other portions.

    In any software exclusively distributed under an SLA, it is the only way you obtain a valid license under copyright and the only way you come into legal possession of a copy. Therefore, the idea that an SLA "takes away" rights is legally, technically, mechanically, and semantically incorrect. The copyright holder has the sole, exclusive right to authorize who may acquire a copy, how they may do so, and what rights are vested in that copy. Without legal possession, you have zero rights to the work.

    Some SLAs give you more than others. That's a fact. But it's entirely up to the copyright holder, while the copyright is in effect, to determine who gets a copy and/or shares in exclusive rights.

    There's no need to agree to the copyright restrictions, because by default you have no right to redistribution unless it's explicitly granted.

    By default you have no right to anything unless it's granted. If the copyright restrictions are a condition of lawful license, then you must agree to them to use the software.

    The GPL exists in this way because the notice portions of the license (the bulk of the text) apply to everyone. The license portion tells you that no restrictions apply to your personal use of the software, but that certain portions of the granted rights (namely distribution) are subject to restrictions. Contrary to the text, you must accept that the license contains those restrictions and notices in order to use the software. The way that licensing law works, you cannot ignore the terms ever. You cannot say that the license only comes into effect when someone wishes to distribute, because the grant of rights occurs at the time of acquisition. The limitations must apply at the same time, or they are not valid.

    Everyone must accept the GPL, because the specified method of acceptance is performance (i.e., exercising your legal rights)--there is no way to use the software without accepting, regardless of the license text's badly worded "you do not need to accept to use" which really is not a license term under contract law, but a notice that end users are not subject to the restrictions.

    If you did not accept the terms of the license or the various notices contained therein, you would have to not use the software at all. Any use constitutes acceptance of the terms and restrictions and acknowledgment of the notices and disclaimers.

    It's not rocket science. If a license agreement says that you agree by performance, and you perform, you've agreed. If the GPL wanted to make an exception (which it doesn't, because the owner wants all non-license portions to apply), it would have to add, "Use of this software by end users does not constitute acceptance" to its assent provision.