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US Congress Funds Laser Weapons

An anonymous reader writes "The Washington Post reports that the US Congress is funding laser weapons for use in the near future. Low-power lasers called 'dazzlers' are already being used in Iraq to temporarily reduce a person's vision. High-power laser weapons would allow precision attacks that minimize civilian casualties. From the Post: 'The science board said tactical laser systems could be developed for broader use because they "enable precision ground attack to minimize collateral damage in urban conflicts." The report suggested, for example, that "future gunships could provide extended precision lethality and sensing." The board also proposed using lasers to protect against rockets, artillery, mortars and unmanned airborne vehicles by blasting them out of the sky. Last month, the Army awarded Boeing $36 million to continue development of a high-energy laser mounted on a truck that could hit overhead targets. But deployment is not expected until 2016, even if all goes well.'"

23 of 423 comments (clear)

  1. Cue Shark Jokes in 3 2 1 by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Funny

    All shark jokes go here!

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    1. Re:Cue Shark Jokes in 3 2 1 by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Informative

      Cue

      2. anything that excites to action; stimulus.

      8. to insert, or direct to come in, in a specific place in a musical or dramatic performance (usually fol. by in or into): to cue in a lighting effect.

      Gotta love Grammar nazis though. Though "Queue" also works.

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  2. Cartoon battlefield by Recovering+Hater · · Score: 5, Funny

    Come on, you know the battlefields of the future are going to look like a 1980's G.I. Joe cartoon. Hilarious. Wait... Not really hilarious...

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    1. Re:Cartoon battlefield by sharkey · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, the battles of the future will be fought in space, or possibly at the top of very tall mountains, by robots.

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    2. Re:Cartoon battlefield by Mr2cents · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd like anyone with a minimum of imagination to think about the kind of wounds these weapons will cause. Seems horific to me. It always strikes me how these weapons are promoted to "eliminate targets", and while one might think about destroying infrastructure, they are actually talking about killing.

      But hey, I guess more weapons is just what the world needs.

      (sorry for the sarcasm).

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    3. Re:Cartoon battlefield by ParanoiaBOTS · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd like anyone with a minimum of imagination to think about the kind of wounds these weapons will cause. Seems horific to me.

      Not to belittle your point here, but have you seen the wounds that todays weapons cause? They are already horrific. I think this is a step in the right direction because while the wounds we cause are already bad, what we need is a weapon with less collateral damage. The fact is a bullet is affected by many things, how clean your barrel is, the wind, what round you are using, etc. So when you fire it there is no guarantee you will hit what you are aiming at even IF you aim dead on. There is also the problem of a ricochet if you miss. With a laser weapon, you don't worry about wind or many other factors. Ricochet is also not a real concern.

    4. Re:Cartoon battlefield by Ihlosi · · Score: 4, Insightful
      With a laser weapon, you don't worry about wind or many other factors.

      Laser weapons powerful enough to damage any target will permanently damage the eyesight of anyone who looks at as much as a non-specular reflection of the beam. So much for collateral damage.

    5. Re:Cartoon battlefield by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 4, Informative

      With the ATL (AC-130/chemlaser described above)... If you get hit by the beam, you're pretty much dead. Current RoE prohibit using a laser to intentionally blind or maim someone. ATL is really intended for attacks on physical targets where explosive munitions are either too noisy/obvious, or they can cause too much collateral damage.

      Consider a case where insurgents or rebellious forces have taken over an anthrax factory. You don't really want to drop a JDAM on top of it. Or if they've set up near a culturally significant mosque. For political reasons, you don't want to drop a JDAM on their equipment.

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    6. Re:Cartoon battlefield by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Blah, flushing all my moderation here but I simply had to say something about this.

      We have seen every development of new more advanced weapons lead to more and more killing and less and less regard for human life. Rather than stopping the killing of civilians, it just makes it more acceptable by giving cover to those who killed the civilians.

      If a soldier goes into a town and stabs an innocent child with a sword, there is do doubt he is a murderer, if he shoots him with a rifle, then some people will be willing to believe it was an accident, a stray bullet, opps, if he man flys over in a plane and drops a bomb, oh well, theres always some collateral damage, the child isn't even acknowledged as a human being, the killer is 100% blameless.

      Smart bombs are not to reduce civilian casualties but the make them acceptable, oh yes, we dropped these bombs all over civilian houses, we dropped them on this hospital, of this school, but these were smart bombs, they targeted the evil doers next door, all the innocent people that were still killed by the horrible shock wave were just collateral damage.

      Oh we didn't drop that horrible weapon napalm on these people, be used this harmless white phosphorus for illumination, the civillians who had their faces burned off were just collateral damage.

      These weapons will be used to kill everyone in the area just as before, except now they will have a new line. Oh we used a laser to get the evil doers, all these blind children with thier faces burned off are just collateral damage, theres a lot less of them than if we had used a normal bomb.

      Whats that idea? Send in troops on the ground to actually find and shoot the bad guys rather than blast the whole neighbourhood from the air? That's crazy talk! But then an American might have died, and as you know 1 American soldier = 10000 Iraqi children, people back home might not support our important war for oil and Bushes approval ratings might go down if an American dies, we can't have that!

    7. Re:Cartoon battlefield by phayes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good luck with convincing the Taliban, Al Qaeda, North Korea, and that nice Putin fellow that because the USA has decided to no longer constitute a credible threat that they should do the same. I'm sure the Danish ambassador to Pakistan agrees whole heartedly with you that US congresscritters financing lasers is the root cause of evil in the world today.

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    8. Re:Cartoon battlefield by tsotha · · Score: 5, Informative

      We have seen every development of new more advanced weapons lead to more and more killing and less and less regard for human life. Rather than stopping the killing of civilians, it just makes it more acceptable by giving cover to those who killed the civilians.

      This is simply wrong. The peak of civilian killing was WWII, when entire cities were targeted because that's as accurate as the bombers could get. Not only did this culminate in the complete destruction of two Japanese cities, but the US had already killed far more civilians with firebombs than it managed to kill with nukes. And the Japanese were hardly in a position to complain after their own actions in Korea and China.

      Now we have weapons that are precisely targeted. So much so we can use bombs filled with concrete to destroy AA installations parked in civilian neighborhoods without killing people in the house next door. That AA position would surely have been destroyed in earlier wars as well, and it would have been done with 2000 pound bombs dropped on the entire neighborhood, or, more recently, a more precisely targeted 500 pound bomb that destroyed the AA installation because it was accurate enough to hit the house next door. Which is worse, do you think?

      The laser would give us the option to be very precise, to the point where we could destroy vehicle tracks on an advancing armored column without injuring the soldiers inside. Someday that will be SOP, where countries that inflict unnecessary losses on enemy soldiers will be roundly criticized.

  3. Military Industrial Complex by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Last month, the Army awarded Boeing $36 million to continue development of a high-energy laser

    $36 million, eh? Not much when you say it quick. I suppose it's a drop in the ocean of US defence spending.

    Other countries manage to generate growth without being such warmongers. What is it with the US and this obsession with devising new and more efficient ways to wage war? Dwight Eisenhower's warning seems to have been more prophetic than many would have realised. This war machine has every congressman in its pocket, it's sucking the taxpayer dry, and it's out of control.

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    1. Re:Military Industrial Complex by FiloEleven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When the Russians go rolling across Europe again as the resources of the planet become scarce, remember you said that. You will be praying for the U.S. and all of its "wasteful" high-tech weaponry to come on over (again) and save you. Maybe next time we should stay home and let you all eat each other.

      As opposed to the US, who is currently rolling across the Middle East in search of precious hydrocarbons that we need to fuel our military-industrial complex that has to keep growing to fight all of the people we piss off as we roll across the Middle East in search of precious hydrocarbons?

      (And yes, we should stay home and let them eat each other...it's their business.)

  4. Nothing new here... by Koreantoast · · Score: 5, Informative

    This should hardly be a surprise to anyone; the United States government already has functioning platforms. Just this month, the Boeing Company test fired a fully working prototype of its Advanced Tactical Laser (ATL), a C-130 with a high-energy chemical laser on a rotating turret mounted on the belly of the plane. I don't know if it was a full powered shot, but the press releases indicate that it successfully hit a ground target. Then there's the larger Airborne Laser (ABL), an even bigger laser mounted on a 747 used to shoot down ballistic missiles.

  5. Misleading Summary, we ALREADY fund Lasers... by Tmack · · Score: 4, Informative
    TFA even states congress is BOOSTING funding, and lists projects that have been in the works for YEARS. This project has been around for a few years, and had a "live" test a couple months ago. It listed several other projects that have been in active research and dev for years, and explicitly states funding for such projects got a boost (though some might get cut). US Congress funding lasers: not news, boost to that fundng: maybe news. At least it gives a peek at some of the laser projects in the works, though misses some by a mile.

    Tm

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  6. the other countries by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Insightful

    generating growth without spending on defense exist in peace due to the efforts of the us military. a world without us military spending would be a world of russian imperialism and utter havoc in the middle east, and those "peaceful" countries would radically ramp up their own defense spending, or cease to exist, or become war zones

    the usa is the de facto peacekeeper in the world today, for better or worse. some day, it won't be, nothing is forever, and that world will not be a more peaceful one, but a more warlike one, until it transitions to a new peacekeeper

    some people don't understand this, and its due to a common misperception: peace is not a state of absence of war potential. peace is a state of balance in war potentials between two or more sides. the world exists in this constant tension, always has, and always will. you would understand this ugly but undeniable truth if you truly understood essential human nature

    peace is nothing more than a state of balance between two deadly potentials. remove one of those balances, and in the transition to a new state of balance, much bloodletting occurs. that's all peace is. a balance between war potentials. it is absolutely impossible in this world for peace to exist without any armed forces. such a world would be full of more bloodshed, random warlord. a world of two massive armies with loaded guns pointed at each other is meanwhile perfectly peaceful. i didn't say this is a good thing, i just recognize an unfortunate ugly truth when i see one

    but there ar epletny out there, raised in a coccoon of relative peace ot the rest of human history and other parts of this world, who are blind to this reality. they live in a hermietically sealed bubble, and they begin to develop attitudes about peace and war which frankly, is absurd

    if you don't agree with this assessment, or don't understand it, you don't really understand the nature of the human beings living around you, and you aren't in very good touch with your own human nature

    a lot of people don't understand exactly what creates peace in this world. real peace is a balance between two deadly potentials, not the absense of any deadly potential

    understand that about the nature of peace, or live in denial

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    1. Re:the other countries by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      a world without us military spending would be a world of russian imperialism and utter havoc in the middle east

      "Would be?" What's with the conditional tense?

      peace is a state of balance in war potentials between two or more sides.

      That was all you had to say. The two dozen repetitions of 'you don't understand human nature' were a bit superfluous.

      Europe was once a patchwork of opposing 'war potentials' as you describe them. There was a network of alliances pointing guns at each other in the belief that it would lead to peace. In reality all it took was a single assassination to trigger off the first world war. Modern Europe is a network of treaties and agreements where governments work together for mutual benefit. Result? It would now be impossible for the likes of Germany to go to war with France or any EU member to go to war with another.

      There is an alternative to violence or the threat of violence in international relations. The American attitude of 'a gun in everyone's pocket keeps everyone safer' is one that doesn't work at home, and in world affairs it's a very high stakes game to be playing in the interests of proving that your ideology is correct.

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  7. Re:compact=gitmo by Nyrath+the+nearly+wi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    No, mirrors will not work. The weapon will use internally a wide beam that is just barely under the intensity level that will damage the weapon's internal mirrors. At the barrel, the focusing mirror will focus the wide beam down to a searing pin-point on the hapless target. The focused beam will be more than intense enough to defeat any mirror the target might be wearing. I have some notes here: http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3l.html#laserpistol

  8. Actually, we spend a lot less than in Ike's day by unassimilatible · · Score: 4, Informative

    For off, calling the USA "warmongers" should be modded flamebait.

    And your history and math are wrong. Ike warned of the military industrial complex, not on the use of the military, which he obviously supported, you know, having led the largest invasion in world history. But anti-military types just love to misquote Ike.

    The US spends *much less* of its GDP than it did in Ike's time, much less.

    The left should be pleased that defense spending as a percentage of the federal budget has steadily declined during the past decades. In the early 1960s the Department of Defense constituted 45 percent of federal spending, whereas this year it will constitute an estimated 17 percent, according to the Office of Management and Budget. Source

    As the article points out, the real scandal is the ever-increasing entitlement pending that is going to bankrupt America.

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  9. Re:A sick world by Xeth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You, my friend, are despairing at the human condition, not any particular incarnation of military spending. Wealth and power and lack of consequences have generally walked hand-in-hand for the entirety of human history. I would suggest that you focus your efforts into finding ways that we can, at the peak of our technological development, cheat the cycle of history and change what it means to be human. Because that is what it would take to resolve the problems you're talking about.

    --
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  10. Re:Battlefield Use by Kagura · · Score: 4, Informative
    It's not legal to shoot a human target with a 50 caliber sniper rifle.

    This is an oft-repeated and untrue myth. It is not illegal to shoot a human target with a .50cal machine gun or a .50cal sniper rifle. Here's just one source, of which there are many, along with an excerpt (JAG = military lawyer whose job it is to know the conventions of war):

    http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1573

    This is your JAG speaking:

    Greenhat is absolutely correct. Use of a .50 cal is not contrary to the Law of War, anymore than use of 7.62/.308 or 5.56/.223.

    If you need to shoot with a .50 cal, do it. If you can just as well smother an objective with 7.62 and save those few & heavy .50 cal MLB for your M2's in favor of lighter 7.62 1-4, save the heavy duty ammo for when you need it.

    What is contrary to the Law of War (and the Principle of War - Economy of Force) is using more than you need to, given the choice, wasting a limited supply of ammo and endangering civlians or good guys who may be miles away.

    I've heard this .50 cal bulls--t before, along with comments that the following are prohibited by "Geneva Conventions":

    - handcuffing prisoners of war.
    - blindfolding prisoners of war.
    - photographing prisoners of war.
    - males searching female prisoners of war.
    - use of silenced weapons.

    In fact, of course, none of the above are prohibited.

    If you don't trust this source, then try asking your own JAG. Don't just ask random soldiers or superiors you work with, but go straight to a trustworthy source of information on these laws.

  11. Re:compact=gitmo by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Informative

    A mirror will reflect some percentage of light that hits it, and absorb the rest. A sufficiently high-power laser will mean that the absorbed percentage is high enough to melt or burn the mirror.

    If you put a mirror in the sun on a hot day then the back of it will become warmer than the surrounding air, which acts as a demonstration of this. The density of energy from the sun is quite small in comparison, however. Most anti-laser designs involve rotating mirrors, so that the mirror only has to survive a small fraction of a second before being the laser starts hitting a different part.

    If you shoot a mirror (or anything other than a perfect black body) with such a laser then there will be some reflection, which is roughly analogous to a ricochet from a bullet. How much energy is contained in this depends on the intensity of the beam, the reflectiveness of the mirror, and the shape of the object at the point where it's hit (if it's not flat then the energy will be the same, but it will be dispersed or focussed).

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  12. Re:the eu by mjwx · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Perhaps you need to read up on what happened to Soviet Russia?

    They had this mindset after world war 2, this lead to decades of famine and oppression at the hands of Stalin and his successors. It was soviet policy that the military needs come first, way ahead of any other concerns even above feeding and housing their own people. This mentality gave them an army unrivalled by any other single power but it also lead to their downfall. Slowly their technology dropped behind everyone else's, their ability to support their civilian infrastructure lagged even further, they could not compete in international trade, civilian morale was non-existent and the only mechanism keeping the civilian population in line at some points was the secret police and their best military machines could not manage to defeat a bunch of determined rebels in Afghanistan.

    What bought the US into dominance in the latter half of the twentieth century was is diplomacy and trade. Given the enormous advantage the US had by being untouched by the war the US focused its energy into strengthening alliances and trading with partners which gave the US money to expand both its military services and civilian infrastructure as well as invest in greater educational and scientific facilities. Even when manufacturing moved to Asia the US still found a strong economy in high tech arenas.

    Perhaps you are familiar with the old saying, "he who lives by the sword dies by the sword" and history has proven this time and time again. No militaristic power (Huns, Mongols, Third Reich) has ever succeeded for very long, and nowhere near as long as cultural (Roman Empire) or Economic powers (British Empire). The most successful empires did have large armies but did not use them as a first resort and placed much more emphasis on diplomacy and trade. Going back to my example of the Soviet Union, who faced multiple rebellions due to the harsh conditions which had to be put down by force was eventually undone by untrained and ill-equipped Afghans, the Soviet military power was never able to rebuild as they didnt have the civilian and scientific power to do so, their only diplomatic card was their army which they used at every occasion and when they withdrew from Afghanistan they lost all diplomatic power.

    This will not be the case with the withdrawal from Iraq, provided it is not put off to too long. The strength of the US has always been her trade and diplomacy, despite the idiotic actions of your current leader the US is still held in relatively high esteem with her major allies (European and Pacific) and if military funding was not increased it would not reflect badly as the US's significant partners would still trade with and bolster her.

    and the russian bear awakes again

    so listen to me now, or wait until death and destruction visits europe again before you pick up a gun

    Not going to happen and is not necessary. The old Soviet Union fell after their direct first military defeat, this is because they had no other strenghts apart from their military. The new Russian Federation is different, it is depended on export to (shock horror) Western Europe to maintain its economy, primarily energy exports and their military is a shadow of its former power. Russia is no threat to Europe and Russia stands to lose more by losing favour amongst Europeans.

    Even if Putin launched and invasion today, they would be hard pressed to get past the first wave of EU defenders. Germany and Britain have two of the worlds best militarys, in addition to France, Turkey, Sweeden and were not even counting European Allies such as Japan, Australia/New Zealand, Canada and the US. Add to this that Russia does not have current generation equipment equivalent to Challenger2/Lepoard2/Abrams Tanks, Eurofighter/F22/F35 aircraft, modern assault rifles, UAV's, guided missiles, so on and so forth, in addition to this most of their military equipment is mothballed and poorly maintained. But the biggest one of all is,

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