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Princeton Researchers Say Feds Need Data Standard

dcblogs writes "The federal government's data-sharing efforts are a mess, and if Barack Obama really wants a useful 'Google for government,' he would have to set the government's vast amount of data free by exposing it and ensuring it complies to standards. Once that happens, commercial sites, aggregators, bloggers and everyone else will be able to access it, use it and transform it, argue a group of Princeton researchers (follow Download link for full PDF)."

17 of 49 comments (clear)

  1. Add them to the buying spree. by bigtallmofo · · Score: 4, Funny

    Barack Obama really wants a useful 'Google for government,'

    Well, so far the government has bought parts of Bear Stearns and AIG. Maybe it's time they diversify into some technology companies like Google? Hell, let's buy them too!

    --
    I'm a big tall mofo.
    1. Re:Add them to the buying spree. by wisty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You can't get the fed buying google, only losses get socialized!
      In the meantime, if you want the government to produce useful data, don't insist that they standardize. Government employees are not particularly good at standardization, and if publishing requirements slow them down, then they just won't release data. Free, standard, and available are all possible, as long as you only want 2.

    2. Re:Add them to the buying spree. by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It is more a question of whether or not citizens will be able to access government data in a meaningful way. If the government wants to standardize its data, it can, assuming it contracts with a company that actually knows what it is doing (this is the real hitch). Government employees need to be able to continue doing what they normally do, and have the standardization happen automatically -- such as a MS .doc to ODF converter that silently makes the conversion whenever a file is saved, or another tool that automatically indexes files as they are saved. Such things already exist, it is just a matter of implementing on the scale of the government.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    3. Re:Add them to the buying spree. by WhatAmIDoingHere · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, we pay tax dollars to the government, meaning anything that it does is NOT free. That leaves "standard and available" as the only two options, and I'm fine with that.

      --
      Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
  2. GOXML by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I hear that Microsoft is already working on the problem with their proposed "Government Open XML" standard. This should not be confused with GOXMLb ("Google Open XML beta") because Microsoft would never try to confuse people on such an issue.

    It is going up for ISO vote next week. Be there*.

    (*) it will be very profitable for you to "be there".... nudge, nudge... wink, wink...

  3. Looks like a job for Microsoft! by erroneus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What you need is not one [set of] standard(s) but one vendor controlling and maintaining those standards... they know what is best for all of us because they are paid professionals, not hack hobbyists.

    (Yes! I am kidding!!)

    1. Re:Looks like a job for Microsoft! by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're kidding ... but Microsoft isn't.

      It makes me nervous when people say things like this line from TFA: "Private actors, either nonprofit or commercial, are better suited to deliver government information to citizens ..." Uh, no, governments are better suited to deliver information about themselves, and no matter how bureaucratic or obstructionist the US government may be it's still more open and credible, on a dollar-for-dollar basis, than a lot of the "private actors" who would just looove to charge us an arm and a leg for information we've already paid our taxes for.

      By all means, the government should make raw data as well as user-friendly aggregations available. And if "private actors" can do a better job of aggregating the raw data than the government can, and they can do it well enough to get people to pay them for it, then good for them. But by no means should the large number of (generally well-laid-out and quite informative) government data aggregation websites be shut down as a benefit for corporations that want to sell our own information back to us, which I strongly suspect is the idea that's being pushed here.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  4. Shakespeare:To share or not to share? by Ostracus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One thought has occurred to me as part of this "sharing". Privacy and the other is Security.

    --
    Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
    1. Re:Shakespeare:To share or not to share? by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Informative

      We are not talking about the government sharing data on individual citizens or on military secrets. We are talking about things involving government spending, contracts, loans, grants, etc. Things that citizens should have access to, but have trouble organizing.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:Shakespeare:To share or not to share? by Ostracus · · Score: 2, Informative

      "The District of Columbia is far ahead of its federal government overlord in bringing data to standard XML formats and RSS-enabling it. DC's government has what it calls a "data catalog" offering live data feeds of crime reports, construction reports, building permits and many other types of information. "

      I can see some that if not screened carefully could cause problems in this "sharing" environment.

      Also don't forget there have been examples were citizen information has accidentally been leaked. Soon retracted but "sharing" only means the mistake propagates faster.

      --
      Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
    3. Re:Shakespeare:To share or not to share? by ThaddaeusV · · Score: 2, Funny

      "The Internet has made it possible to make more mistakes, faster, than any other invention in history, with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila."
      -- A Usenet .sig I remember from years ago

      --
      Thaddaeus A. Vick, Speaker for the Coyote
  5. Re:Welcome to the "duh" department by Talchas · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, but it takes at least a team of researchers to get the government to listen.

    --
    As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century,free flow of information is the only safeguard against...
  6. Librarians by jbolden · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The government could hire librarians to organize the data. This is are a group of people highly trained in how to take large quantities of non standard data and organize it in a way that people can find what they want.

  7. Imagine a beowulf cluster of lobbyists by Crash+Culligan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Remember the good old days, when transparency in government could be safely considered a good thing?

    Generally, I'm still for it. Absolutely we need transparency in our government, and anything that brings us closer to point-and-click convenience over what we have now (FOIA requests left behind the radiator for 9–18 months to age and mellow) is for the best.

    Furthermore, an open, accessible standard (i.e. no copyrighted DTDs, and I'm looking at you, Microsoft) will allow government resources to be brought together in interesting and inspiring ways. You know all those Facebook apps and Google Maps mashups? Imagine those applied to governance. The idea behind them is to put information together in new and interesting ways. If not only those in government, but the citizenry, can create government hacks like that, there would be great benefit.

    Now let's talk hazards.

    When was the last time you published your name and address online? See any good uses of microformats on any major sites lately? That's because there are some people on the Internet who are <sarcasm class="churchlady">not so nice</sarcasm>, and might willingly abuse whatever information they can find. The "government hack" alluded to above is an invitation to abuse. And we really can't afford to put government in that kind of position.

    Another consideration, and I've stated this before, is that a wide line must be maintained between security and transparency. Security means that everything that must be kept secret is really kept secret. Transparency means that everything that doesn't have to be secure is made available somehow. If things aren't secured, the government becomes ineffectual and even detrimental. If things aren't kept transparent, the government itself can become abusive. A freely searchable infrastructure would make the transparency all that much more powerful, and make any breaches in security that much more severe.

    --
    You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
  8. Re:Welcome to the "duh" department by lysergic.acid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    only if you take the long route. the quickest way to get the government to listen is with an unattended briefcase full of cash.

    that is, if you don't already have former board members in the White House.

  9. Good advice doesn't always have good result by feenberg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I use lots of government supplied data in my work, and one constant has always been that the more work the agency does to make the data easily available, the harder the data are to use. Spreadsheets get posted with labels and data mixed, because that looks better in print. Spreadsheets get posted as PDFs, because that looks better in print. Footnotes and other textual material is mixed into numeric fields, because that is the way the material will be published in hardcopy. etc etc etc.

    Databases get posted to the web with "interfaces" that allow single rows to be downloaded, but require months of screen scraping to get the entire database. Databases get released with (windows-only, of course) software with the same effect. etc etc etc

    The reason is mostly that agencies want to discourage outside analysis of the data - they would prefer to avoid inconsistent messages getting to OMB or congress.

  10. Well, its already happening in some places by Jesse+Rudolph · · Score: 2, Informative

    The United States Army uses 'PureEdge' which i guess was replaced by IBM with 'Lotus Forms' as there is no canonical link to the software anymore. Its an XML based form system. Its not really used in any standard way, other than electronically saving forms, and filling stuff in before printing the forms. It could though, because the Army, at least, does little to no documentation that isn't on some kind of standardized form. Now that the forms are machine parsable, I can definitely see the fed adoption some kind of organization and retrieval system.

    The problem with that is, that the government doesn't want to organize its documentation that well. Obfuscation is still a large part of information security in certain circles, and the possibility of leak is much greater when information flows so fluidly. Unclassified does not mean its not of a sensitive nature, it just means that it doesn't fall under any of the standard security classifications. Thus the reason why we shred EVERYTHING.

    Its archaic, but not necessarily ineffective.