OS X On the MSI Wind

Ruler of Planets writes "PlanetX64 has just published an article on loading OS X on an MSI Wind, effectively creating a machine that is smaller and lighter than a Macbook Air. The exercise was done solely for academic purposes and doing so voids all kinds of warranties, but hey, now you can slip a Mac into a lab coat pocket!"

Comments

Done in August with Video

[BoldAC]

I read and saw the videos about triple booting with MSI wind back in August. He's got a video there and a bunch of hard to grab OS X drivers. If you are going to purchase a MSI wind, please note the issues with the non synaptics trackpads in some circumstances.

You will need an extra stick of RAM, DVD drive, and WLAN card as well. This hack will get you up to OS X 10.5.4. The hackint0sh community is usually a point release or two behind.

The planetx64 version also has problems with the internal mic, the microphone port and the headset port.

Re:Done in August with Video

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

congratulations, you're running with a vanilla kernal. Not all of us have that option, and for anyone who is running a hacked version to work on their AMD, for example, the hackintosh community is one or two points behind. Unless you'd like to invite us to that mythical community of faeries and magic where OSX works magically on all computers, even those that can't run a vanilla kernal.

Every time I read an article like this

[jacquesm]

I wonder what the world would look like if Apple would sell software as well. I know they'd get a worse reputation because people would blame the OS for hardware / driver issues but it would certainly be neat to use OS/X on hardware other than that sold by Apple.

They would not have the margins they currently do, but it is very well possible that they'd take huge marketshare from microsoft.

And it would mean an instant end to the microsoft tax on new hardware.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

I wonder what the world would look like if Apple would sell software as well.

Apple will never sell software sans hardware. They've got a control obsession. Their greatest strength & weakness as a company.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[MrHanky]

And how, exactly, would this change "the world"? Just because you have your head so far up Steve Jobs's arse that you can see the light doesn't mean the world in any way revolves around Apple's business plans. It's just you.

And re "the microsoft tax on new hardware": it doesn't exist. You can buy MSI Wind without Windows. You can buy whichever component you want without giving a cent to Microsoft. Perhaps you're confusing it with the Apple tax, the extra money you have to pay for an Apple approved version of graphics cards and some sound cards.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[apodyopsis]

I thought about that a while back.

Suppose they did it this way...

1. published a list of exactly what hardware they supported, ie. a restricted driver model not the windows model of anybody can create anything they want and sell it for windows.
2. allowed OEMs to choose that supported hardware and display a "Apple Ready" sticker
3. allowed home builder to choose from that list and be "Apple Ready"
4. then anybody could buy and install Apple OS - if during boot up it detected unsupported hardare it would either refuse to install or warn the user that some hardware would not be support

I would expect them to release a free tool that would allow you to confirm if your platform was supported.

If this was done then OEMs could sell apple OS PCs, you'd see PC with "ready for windows" and "apple ready" label you'd know you could dual boot.

But let's face it, this is pure fantasy. Apple restrict the OS because they want money from the HW and they want to enforce a beautiful uniform image for their equipment. They very last thing they was is an ugly square chinese box proclaiming to be an apple.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Registered Coward v2]

Their margins would be arguably higher, as selling software carries little additional cost versus hardware sales. Each additional unit is more-or-less pure profit.

I'm not convinced that it would be an instant end to the microsoft tax, but at least it would be another alternative. Neither option is free.

Two points:

1) revenue would take a big hit if people switches from Apple branded hw to others
2) shipping fewer units would mean higher unit costs and lower margins on those products
3) support costs would go up as Apple would have to ensure it worked on a variety oh hardware combos with products they currently do not support but are cmmon such as WiFi cards from various manufacturers, or
4) they cut a deal with say Dell and HP but then they will need to significantly drop prices and stop update the build everytime an internal component changes

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[aliquis]

If I had my 10 mod points I would have wanted to give you them all.

Wtf is up with the special mac graphic cards for real macs when hacks run BIOS cards? If the EFI connection in the OS is so loose can't they somehow make it possible to just use regular video cards? Or just skip EFI totally since it's not like they have released lots of EFI cards anyway and the world don't seem to move on to EFI just yet anyway.

Geforce 8800 GT 512MB Mac Pro upgrade kit: $279.00

Same card for a PC on newegg: $110.99

(Not to forget it's a shitty card anyway compared to some other options, but those aren't options even on a hack since all cards isn't supported anyway. Though I guess it can't be hard for Apple to get support for HD3000- and HD4000-series if they wanted to as well.)

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[davester666]

Yes, the percentage margin could be higher, particularly if they go more direct (as in, online download & activation).

But there is no real way Apple could reinvent themselves as a software-only company [as they tried the sell-hardware & license OS to competitors before and got their asses handed to them before they stopped it].

Problems include:
-price for both OEM and retail set by Microsoft. America is cheap. See Walmart & Dell (well, Dell in the past, now they are kinda bloated). If customers Apple is going after won't spend the extra couple hundred bucks to go from the advertised 'cheap' model to Apple's baseline, they aren't going to drop an extra couple hundred bucks just to use MacOS X over Vista. And since Apple doesn't have an existing install-base created by being a monopolist, trying to sell MacOS X at MS price levels would give them nowhere near the amount of profit that they need for advancing the OS. Apple makes between say 150 - over 1000 PROFIT on each machine they sell. To make the same amount of money from retail and OEM sales, their market share would have go from 5% to 25% (or higher), overnight, just to stay even.
-supporting MacOS X on all kinds of machines becomes a much more significant drain on tech support. Again, people are cheap, and expect cheap tech support. And it has to be cheap and/or require NO support for the general public to pay for MacOS X instead of Vista. Particularly if they pay more for MacOS X over Vista, people will expect it to work better and with fewer problems than Vista. That certainly is an impossible goal for Apple. Just look at Microsoft with Vista. They have boatloads of experience supporting all the wacky hardware out there, loads of influence with ALL vendors to get everyone to create new drivers on a dime, and still MS has loads of driver problems. Apple will have more..
-speaking of drivers, again, Apple has no chance. There are a crazy amount of configurations out there, plenty of which have choices that aren't even listed in spec lists. So, customers can't just buy a machine, then load MacOS X on it and expect it to work (well, they would expect it to work, but it probably wouldn't). So, it would become more like how Linux is being installed now by the major vendors (more or less). Specific configurations are listed as being sold either with Linux or Vista, but the majority is sold only with Vista (or XP). And people expect all their devices to work (both the ones they own and new ones). But most manufacturers aren't willing (or can't afford) to fund a second or third (if they are doing linux) parallel development streams until they see significant penetration of MacOS X (so it's a chicken & egg thing, just look at how long it's taken Linux to start bootstrapping it's drivers).
-Apple's shareholders would raze Apple's campus. It's been said, the fastest way to change Apple from being a billion-dollar company to a million-dollar company is for it to switch to being software only (even keeping iPods, etc, only dropping computer hardware). Sure, Apple's got billion's in the bank, so they would still be able to keep funding everything for years, but you can kiss the stock price goodbye.

It winds up just being "customers pick from a more limited selection of models if they want MacOS X (because these models have been tested to work properly with MacOS X and have drivers for all their components), and the machines costs more (because Apple needs to charge more than MS for the OS license)". Customer's would be able to buy slightly cheaper systems than they do now from Apple, and have a wider variety of systems than they do now from Apple, but have more problems than they do now from Apple.

And finally, consider Microsoft as well. Apple's business plan would be change from successfully competing in the computer systems market by clearly differentiating themselves from everybody else, to competing head-on with Microsoft, for Microsoft's existing customers (namely OEM sales). The day after Apple

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[aliquis]

... Or just sell they card at market price and not at some remarkable markup.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[larry bagina]

The mid 90s called. They have the answer to your question. But here's a reminder:

• Other companies eat away at Apple's hardware sales and Apple heads towards bankruptcy
• NeXT sells OpenStep for x86 computers. It's at least a decade ahead of everything else (except maybe BeOS). It's very expensive.

The fact you don't remember/know those two pieces of history suggest it wasn't really a stunning success.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[PopeRatzo]

revenue would take a big hit if people switches from Apple branded hw to others

Why do you have so little confidence in Apple's hardware?

If, as we are often told, Apple's hardware is so much better, then there should not be a "big hit" from people switching.

I actually think it may be the other way 'round. Most of the people I see using "Macs in public" would still buy the Apple product even if it came with Windows only.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[aliquis]

Except knowing Apple they'd ask for an insane price for the benefits of having that sticker on your box or part of the profit since soooo many mac users would buy their cards, of which the OEM would say fuck that and things would remain as they is. =P

For half the price and same specs I'd for sure take the chinese box :)

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[timmarhy]

it would mean they would end up in the same boat as MS, and everyone would suddenly realize windows isn't evil and that MS is just a software company, not the devil.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Uberbah]

No, WATB, they have an obsession with not going out of business. They don't have an OS monopoly and can't lock in Dell or HP into selling OS X on their machines. They can't make the $$$ on volume like Microsoft can, so they'd have to charge much more money for their operating systems - inviting rampant piracy.

Stop drinking the anti-Apple Kool Aid.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Uberbah]

Good luck competing against Windows if you can't run on the same hardware. Not to mention the time wasted and customer dissatisfaction when a customer buy's OS X for their new Vaio only to find out it isn't supported.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[KGIII]

I dunno. I bought a Macbook Air just for the hardware alone. It boots to Windows. I don't use their OS but I really REALLY like the laptop. I'd have considered a netbook but I really wanted something with a full size keyboard and screen as well as plenty of power.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Uberbah]

Except... hackintosh-ing invites rampant piracy.

No, because getting OS X to run on a vanilla PC has some technical hurdles, and the number of pirates goes down with each hoop that needs to be jumped through. If Apple releases a version of Leopard that installs (if not runs) on PC's without trouble, goodnight Shirley.

One thing that Apple does actually do to encourage piracy is the fact that they don't have a mid to low end tower. I'm considering doing a Hackintosh after Apple adds ZFS support, as I want a tower with four terabyte hard drives but want my total cost to be less than $1000, not start out at $2800 (base Mac Pro) before I even add the drives.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[SaDan]

Honestly, Apple doesn't have a "high-end" system either. I am typing this on a MacPro (work machine), and I can tell you, this system isn't fast, and it doesn't handle a lot of applications at once either.

I don't know what keeps Apple alive, to be honest.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Uberbah]

There are a bunch of external USB and firewire hard drive products out there that would require a significantly less amount of work to plug into a mac mini or imac.

External drives are great for temporary use, not so much for permanent use. Reasons to use internal over external:

• Price
• Performance (Firewire 800 is the shiznit, but it doesn't have the 3 Gpbs bandwidth of SATA)
• Clutter (four drives + four bricks
• Portability - only the case to grab & go
• Cooling - can add extra case fans

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

Unless you count the free act-a-likes of expensive enterprise distributions.

Are you some sort of fucking idiot? That's not piracy.

Re:Looks like the site is being hosted on an MSI W

[BoldAC]

I've got some of the pages in cache.

      1. Connect your external USB dvd drive to the MSI wind while the computer is off.
      2. Turn on the dvd drive and eject the tray. Place the MSI Leopard disk in the drive and close the tray.
      3. Turn on the MSI wind. After the MSI logo screen, you will be prompted for 5 seconds at the darwin screen. Just tap the space bar within the 5 seconds provided in order to boot from the disk. You will see the installation commence.
      4. The process will take around 5 minutes before you get to the main OSX installation GUI screen. On your way there, you will see a blue screen with the spinning multicolored beach ball as your mouse representation.
      5. Shortly thereafter you will arrive at the language selection screen. Select English and click next.
      6. You will arrive at the Welcome screen for the install. At this point you need to stop and blow away your drive partitions to start fresh. Drag your mouse to the top edge of the screen, and click on âoeUtilitiesâ.
      7. Then go down and select âoeDisk Utilityâ.
      8. Click on your main drive in the left side.
      9. Select âoePartitionâ on the right side.
    10. In âoeVolume Schemeâ, select âoe1 partitionâ.
    11. Assign your disk a name. Then Click on âoeApplyâ. It will take a few seconds to process the disk.
    12. Click on âoeQuit Disk Utilityâ from the menu.
    13. It will take you back to the main installer âoeWelcomeâ page. Click on âoeContinueâ.
    14. Click to accept the licensing agreement.
    15. Select your drive destination which you just partitioned.
    16. Very Important to STOP on the next screen titled âoeInstall Summaryâ. In the lower left hand corner there is a âoeCustomizeâ button. Click it.
    17. Go into Patches, then Kernel, and Uncheck it.
    18. Click on done, and you will be taken back to the âoeInstall Summaryâ page and click on âoeInstallâ.
    19. Sit back and have a cup of coffee while the machine goes thru the whole install process. Don't be alarmed if it loooks like no activity is going on. If you don't see the dvd drive light going, you will notice the HD light on the MSI blinking while installation happens in the background.
    20. Once it is finished and reboots, unplug the dvd usb cable.
    21. This time when the âoeDarwinâ boot screen comes up, don't click space bar. The grey Apple logo screen should come up upon booting. If all went well, core animation and sound were installed, and you should see the welcome intro movie playing smoothly. That's it, you are home free.

Re:Looks like the site is being hosted on an MSI W

[BoldAC]

Pros

Power management/Sleep work normally for the most part. The only difference from actual Apple hardware, is that you need to tap the power button to wake from sleep, as opposed to screen lid, mouse movement or space tap. Fans work properly, same as on a macbook. They kick in on heavy CPU usage and high temps. However, I must say, the device keeps very cool most of the time. Other pluses include Portability & Price. The 6 cell battery gets you around 5 hours of usage.

Working perfectly:

        * Core image
        * Core animation
        * Core audio
        * Video Out & Graphics in general
        * Wired Ethernet
        * Webcam
        * Internal Speakers
        * USB
        * SD Card Slot
        * Sleep
        * Bluetooth
        * Wifi
        * TouchPad
        * Function Keys

Cons

Not able do perform Major OS point upgrades. There is no support for this. Warranty becomes Void. You are totally on your own. Web Cam, Wifi & Bluetooth, need to be activated via the function keys before the OS will see them (very PC like). The trackpad feels a little clunky, however I prefer a small mouse (wired or bluetooth). If you try to save a few dollars by going with the 3 cell battery, you will only get 2 hours of usage.

Not working:

        * Internal Microphone
        * Microphone port
        * Headset port

Any chance?

[MrZaius]

Any chance that this could spur something on Apple's end? The Air is a joke of a machine, with its sole (count 'em - one) expansion port, just begging for failure. It'd sure be nice to have something more Mac Mini & Eee inspired, or the holy of holies - A Fujitsu Lifebook P8240 or Gigabyte M912-inspired Mac.

On a related note, any sign of new Mac Minis?

Re:Any chance?

[Ilgaz]

Macbook Air is a concept machine designed to fit a specific lifestyle and usage style.

If you have a "Mac Pro" or high end iMac running on top of line ISP line with 811.11N network installed at home and live in industrial city with top of line 3G coverage, you will buy and like Macbook Air.

See the Apple Japan store top 10 sellers if you don't believe me.

While speaking about Japan, Casio watches now even come with "atomic time sync" and they are cheaper than $200. Does it make Rolex a failure as it can only display time and date for $3000?

Re:Any chance?

[qubex]

I'm an Apple pundit, but I jump at the opportunity to vent my hatred of the MacBookAir.

You're right: it's a disaster waiting to happen. A friend of mine has one and wrecked the USB port (the manner of failure being essentially irrelevant). Once the port died, the only way of getting information in or out of the machine was the wireless network interface. Digicams and DVDs became off-limits, as did 3G cellphone coverage. In short, it became a stylish paperweight.

Suddenly, my friend understood the concept of "robustness under single failure".

Re:Any chance?

[mabinogi]

That entirely depends on whether or not the Rolex buyers buy Rolex because the appreciate the style and quality of the watch, or if they buy it so they can conspicuously look at the time in from of people that don't have a Rolex.

Buying something expensive doesn't make you pretentious, being pretentious makes you pretentious.

Re:Any chance?

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

A friend of mine has one and wrecked the USB port (the manner of failure being essentially irrelevant).

Yes, no matter how many times I warned steve (our mutual friend), he was adamant - That MBA was totally hot, and totally into him. After that first night of passion, he was ready for more - but she was ruined.

So, on one hand, Steve was upset because his new GF wasn't able to put out anymore. But on the other hand, he now thinks he's god's gift to women.

More OS X on Installations on Small Laptops

[wehe]

This is not the first and only OS X installation attempt on a UMPC. There is a short survey of installation guides for MAC OS X on (small) laptops and notebooks provided by TuxMobil. There are guides for the ASUS Eee PC 701, the OQO e2, the Lenovo ThinkPad X61 and others. More submissions are welcome though.

Re:Looks like the site is being hosted on an MSI W

[pavs.ma]

OK posting this link second time, previous link is deleted? At the bottom of the page there is a video of MSI wind with OSX in action even though the URL/subject of the article says acer aspire One. http://www.linuxhaxor.net/2008/09/27/30-cool-acer-aspire-one-hacks/

Another Vibrant site

[argent]

And here's another site using Vibrant's in-text ads, with the "disable" tab turned off.

Vibrant's in-text ads are the most annoying online advertising scheme since X-10. But bad as they are you used to be able to turn them off... now increasingly often the "disable" tab doesn't show up when you try to do that. Sites that use this technology should not be supported by Slashdot eyeballs any more than spammers should. And just because you can use adblock to hide them doesn't excuse this abusive advertising trick... ignoring it because adblock works is like ignoring spam because you have a good spam filter: we know where that leads.

Apple will be as displeased as usual

[David Gerard]

I can't see Apple being well pleased with this. They have a reputation to sustain!

In any case, OS X on netbooks is old hat. You can put it on an original Eee, for instance.

OS X really does work fine on general hardware. If your hardware is something Apple has a driver for. So, a bit like Linux without anything like as broad a support base, then.

(I personally prefer FreeBSD, but Linux supports my laptop immaculately.)

Re:OSX is just another OS..

[Shag]

Yeah, or even a phone!

Oh, wait...

The point?

[Ilgaz]

Yes, as OS X Intel runs on same x86 CPU, it can work. No need to run a lab for that.

When will people understand that OS X and hardware in total gives "Apple experience" and FreeBSD 6 with WindowMaker/WINE is a way better choice for such portable?

OS X is not only a X86 OS. It becomes meaningful when hardware matches too.

I bet Sony Vaio can run OS X too but I would run Windows or Linux on that machine. It will work way better than a hacked OS.

Therotically as it runs same CPU and most of mobile chip manufacturers are common, my Nokia and Sony Ericsson smart phones can run iPhone OS rather than Symbian they come with. If someone spent needless time for such a hardcore hack and shipped, would I install? Hell no. iPhone experience is broken right when hardware part is gone and smallest hack has to be applied.

Can't they work on meaningful things such as enhancing the linux/bsd support and performance rather than making people joke with MSI?

Re:The point?

[Ash-Fox]

iPhone experience is broken out of the box, it's even worse when the hardware part is gone and smallest hack has to be applied.

There, fixed that sentence for you.

Re:The point?

[marcuz]

i dont care about apple experience. i agree that running osx on some ee pc is ridiculous but for example using it installed on some generic desktop computer does perfectly makes sense. i wouldn't trade my perfectly tuned rig for any crappy mac hw. my rig is way cheaper, more silent, easily upgradable etc... i really love my osx and i really hate apple's marketing (necessary evil).

SC Johnson will be as displeased too

[Dystopian Rebel]

As this combination of hardware and software will inevitably be called WindeX.

Creating a machine?

[YourExperiment]

I think I must have misunderstood the summary. In what way does installing a piece of piece of software onto something "create a machine smaller and lighter than the MacBook Air"?

Also, does installing software on a machine really void the warranty? If you reload the original OS from recovery disks before sending it back, how would the manufacturer even know?

It's strange, /. summaries are usually so clear and well-written.

Re:Creating a machine?

[diesel66]

Opening the case to swap out the wifi card is what voids the warranty.

I agree that slashdot summaries are occasionally sub-optimal, but this is usually solved by RTFA. :)

No, I am not new here.

Here we go again

[paiute]

"OMG, I would totally buy OSX in a second and run it on my box. Why doesn't Apple become a software company? Everyone would drop MS in a second. Apple would make a lot of money on volume."

etc
etc

This is why few boards of directors come to Slashdot looking for their next CEO.

MAC OS for Virtualization?

[Average]

My thought is that, just maybe, Apple should consider a license of Mac OS for Virtualizations. Pick one platform... VMWare, xVM, whatever.

This would solve the "but there are a billion network cards and a billion video cards out there" argument. Inside the VM, there is only the one configuration.

Sure, it wouldn't be the world's speediest thing. But, it would get a lot of people thinking about Mac OS part-time. Some of us Linux people who have a Windows window in the corner (when absolutely necessary) would ditch it most of the time for a legit copy of Mac. If I had to run a shrink-wrap app, I'd buy the Mac version if it ran well. I'd also be more willing to develop and test for Mac.

Too cannibalistic of their hardware sales, though?

Where does this hate come from?

[sgant]

We're talking about computers here. This isn't a religion. This isn't anything life altering or anything like that. These are computers.

Where does the "Just because you have your head so far up Steve Jobs's arse" vitriol come from?

Come on...

Re:Where does this hate come from?

[MrHanky]

Exactly. Which is why I flame these people who see life-changing circumstances in Apple's schemes, and complain about "Windows tax" as if their own idol wasn't the biggest of all offenders. I wish the fanboy idiots could just shut up and leave the discussion to someone else. Especially when what they have to say isn't even remotely true.

Re:Where does this hate come from?

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

Where does the "Just because you have your head so far up Steve Jobs's arse" vitriol come from?

Because it is fun teasing fanatics - religious or not, they're still a bunch of crazies.

Re:Where does this hate come from?

[CountBrass]

That's true. I take great joy in pointing out to rabid atheists that they're a bunch of religous nut jobs.

Well, they do sell it.

[Wooky_linuxer]

You can buy a boxed version of Leopard anywhere. Sure, their EULA forbids one from installing in anything that is not Apple hardware. Not sure how would that hold up in a court if, say, Apple sued someone who installed OS X in his MSI Wind. BTW, how is the Psystar lawsuit going on?

Re:Well, they do sell it.

[Pope]

Because monopolies aren't illegal.

Re:Well, they do sell it.

[cp.tar]

You can buy a boxed version of Leopard anywhere. Sure, their EULA forbids one from installing in anything that is not Apple hardware.

Wasn't that "Apple-branded hardware"?

And they do give you those quaint stickers you can use to brand any piece of hardware...

Re:Apple users are safe

[CountBrass]

I tried running your comment through Bablefish but even after trying all the major European languages and even Esperanto I couldn't get your post to translate into English.

Re:WTF? 10" Macbook?

[Barsteward]

This box will be in good company then..... :o)