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Another Way the LHC Could Self-Destruct
KentuckyFC writes "Just when you thought it was safe to switch on the LHC (though it won't be for a while yet), another nightmare scenario has emerged that some critics worry could cause the particle accelerator to explode. The culprit this time is not an Earth-swallowing black hole but a 'Bose supernova' in the accelerator's superfluid helium bath. Physicists have been playing with Bose Einstein Condensate (BECs) for over 10 years now. But in 2001, one group discovered that placing them in a powerful magnetic field could cause the attractive forces between atoms to become repulsive. That caused their BEC to explode in a Bose supernova — which they called a 'Bosenova,' a name that fortunately did not catch on. This was little more than a curiosity when only a microscopic blob of cold matter was involved. But superfluid liquid helium is also BEC. And physicists have suddenly remembered that the LHC is swimming in 700,000 liters of the stuff while being zapped by some of the most powerful magnetic fields on the planet. So is the LHC a Bose supernova waiting to go off? Not according to the CERN theory division, which has published its calculations that show the LHC is safe (abstract). They also point out that no other superfluid helium handling facility has mysteriously blown itself to pieces."
Let me assure you, there is nothing to be worried about. I'm watching a couple of guys fiddle with some of the magnets right now and they assure me that nothing can go wro
Does this mean we can just blame it on the Bosenova?
Isn't amazing that whenever a new technological breakthrough occurs, it's instantly assumed that the End Is Nigh? If anyone remembers, atomic bombs were originally estimated to have a 15% chance to cause complete atmospheric ignition on a planetary scale. Also, it was a "generally well known fact" when cars were invented that going above 50 mph would cause the driver's lungs to collapse from wind pressure, as well as tear off his face. Don't you just love all those nightmare scenarios that keep popping up? It takes all the challenge out of creating new science fiction apocalypse scenarios!
"They also point out that no other superfluid helium handling facility has mysteriously blown itself to pieces."
True, but, no other SFH2 facility was wielding a 1Tev particle beam like it was a toy light saber, either.
Sig this!
An expanding BEC isn't anywhere close to a supernova. This would be similar to snapping the valve off of a liquid helium tank. The guys at CERN could blow themselves up with this, but that's about it. They could blow themselves up lots of ways.
It was called a "bosenova" because it shrinks before it expands, not because it's super destructive.
can we please stop grunting like frightened chimps every time we are on the verge of a new scientific break through?
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Q: What's funnier than running the world's largest particle collider while the janitor is inside, cleaning the pipes?
A: Nothing
I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
Could it be worse than melting a 40-ton magnet, which actually happened?
HCG 50a = 2MASX J11170638+5455016
11h17m06.4s +54d55m02s
Energy doesn't magically come from nowhere.
In this (imaginary) case, the energy in would be that of the magnetic field. Trying to spin this as a possible supernova plays on ignorance, is scaremongering, and is just plain wrong.
When did Slashdot turn into Fox News?
I know it's out of vogue, but I'd like to point out that if the LHC were to explode in a fireball whose energy exceeded the energy we put into it, it'd be a good thing for science -- imagine a new energy source we can use to power our further expansion into the universe?
The law of conservation of energy makes for some very unsexy conclusions, like the lhc is probably fairly safe from destroying the universe.
It's been a long time.
Or it could split the planet wide open if the uninformed hyperbole gets to hot and detonates.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
and we used to blow stuff up for fun when I was a kid. Now I work in an MRI research lab.
This sounds like something I need to try tomorrow.
Helium isn't explosive, it's the most inert material you can get. If you want to make it explode it's going to have to be taking in energy from the magnetic field it is in, so the LHC's helium can never explode any more powerfully than a loss of superconductivity in the magnets would do anyway. Conservation of energy.
also, lolwtfsig
That's the point of the myth: Apollo granted her the gift of prophesy, then cursed her by making it so nobody would ever believe her predictions.
If you have a cup of super-cooled water, and tickle it so that it suddenly freezes, it's going to release a lot more energy that you used to trigger it. I don't understand the math here, but I think that (even though a BEC is a "cooler" phase than liquid) transition from a BEC to a liquid releases energy. Perhaps liquid helium just takes up more space than superfluid helium, so a rapid transition would be bad? In any case, rapid state changes in a material can release or consume more energy than is used to trigger the state change.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Okay! Important Safety Tip. Don't cross the Streams.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
From the summary:
"So is the LHC a Bose supernova waiting to go off? Not according to the CERN theory division, which has published its calculations that show the LHC is safe. They also point out that no other superfluid helium handling facility has mysteriously blown itself to pieces."
So, a "Bosenova explosion" under LHC-like conditions (1) can't happen according to theory, and (2) hasn't happened according to experiment either. Sheesh. I can concoct LHC disaster scenarios that are impossible according to theory and experiment too. Can I get on the Slashdot front page?
The physics that allow us to build 5GHZ chips at 5nm is due to a thorough understanding of the atom. Our understanding of the atom is due to work done in 'atom smashers' like these.
This is not pointless science. Yes, we don't know what we will find, or how we will use it, but we will find something, and we will find it useful.
I can't say what history will record about the LHC. But it will be important, I can grant yo that.
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
Ah yes, I had forgotten that, there is a pretty hefty heat gradient allowing the helium to take heat energy from the surrounding environment. Still the point stands that there is a limited supply of energy available, it's never going to be a craterworthy explosion. I wouldn't want to be standing nearby if it did get a coolant rupture though... I have a mental image of the "I am invincible!" scene from goldeneye.
I'm sure glad there's more certainty in economic and finance theory than physics; otherwise banks would be ....... we're fucked
Table-ized A.I.
It went on line and the economy crashed.
Coincidence? I think not. Clearly it takes unbalanced chaotic systems and collapses them into the state most likely to actualize. The cloud of dreams which has been our economy since Reagan began inflating it with voodoo has been begging to collapse for some time. Thank-you Higgs Boson! Clearly, the LHC is a kind of Probability Drive.
I look forward to seeing what will happen next when they get it up and running again. If they run it in reverse, maybe it will turn missiles into potted plants and whales.
-FL
I don't know how this FUD even came up. It's such a ridiculous idea to begin with.
And now we finally know how the ancient Atlantians created the moon and killed off the dinosaurs all at once.
Failure to follow this advice may result in non-deterministic behavior.
Depends which side you ask.
None, because after careful analisis we've determined it won't happen
-Science
An explosion that would likely cause the END OF THE UNIVERSE AND KILL GOD! (add video clip of a van exploding)
-Fox News (story at 11)
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master.
I admit that in not fully understanding as a whole the general science behind the LHC that I'm hesistant in having the experiment go on. I studied biology but particle physics lost me a long time ago. I think its neat that the technolgy, knowledge and scientists are available to have this experienment come to fruition. Moreover, the contruction of the LHC is amazing.
The problem: The public sees the media as being the credible source of information. Not the physicists at CERN nor independent ones.
I think that the public and media are hesitant to have the experiment go on because they really don't understand or remeber anything about science past 9th grade (if that even). Whether the reason (religion, education, moral, fear, end of the world, conspiracy theory, etc.) it seems that this is the same resistance to other science experiments of the past. Nuclear weapons had the same public reaction (and the world is definately not the same since then). But more comparatively 'simple' things in complexity either science-wise or the ability for the public to understand the science behing it like the Human Genome Project, Stem Cell research, Robotics have met the same media and public resistance. The world will end with Dolly the Sheep.
Particle physics is tough to understand. I've read the articles in the AP and watched some slightly more detailed interviews with CERN scientists. The general public isn't buying it. I think the CERN guys should do a piece for a major magazine(s) or newspaper. PR is where it's at.