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Schneier On Scareware Vendor Lawsuits

Bruce Schneier's blog says "This is good: Microsoft Corp. and the state of Washington this week filed lawsuits against a slew of 'scareware' purveyors, scam artists who use fake security alerts to frighten consumers into paying for worthless computer security software. "

32 of 148 comments (clear)

  1. You are trying to file a lawsuit. Cancel or Allow? by Hatta · · Score: 2, Informative

    Microsoft is as big a culprit of this as anyone.

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  2. Microsoft is sueing themselves? by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 5, Funny

    scam artists who use fake security alerts to frighten consumers into paying for worthless computer security software

    Sounds a lot like an average Windows advertisement.

  3. Unnecessary blog reference by g051051 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why does this even reference Bruce Schneier's blog? There's no added value from there. Why not just reference the original article?

    1. Re:Unnecessary blog reference by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Look at the name of the submitter.. this is blatant self promotion.

      And, as is often the case, Schneier's blog doesn't add anything to the article either.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    2. Re:Unnecessary blog reference by nschubach · · Score: 3, Funny

      Repeat after me: Ad revenue from hits/views.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    3. Re:Unnecessary blog reference by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bruce Schneier has a lot more credibility in the security field than the Washington Post, the State of Washington, and Microsoft all put together.

    4. Re:Unnecessary blog reference by jimicus · · Score: 2, Funny

      Bruce Schneier has a lot more credibility in the security field than the Washington Post, the State of Washington, and Microsoft all put together.

      That doesn't mean much. My left arse cheek has a lot more credibility in the security field than the Washington Post, the State of Washington, and Microsoft all put together.

    5. Re:Unnecessary blog reference by LMacG · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, Brian Krebs at the WaPo has a lot of credibility, and has been writing very good well-researched columns on computer security for as long as I've been reading that paper. What's your left arse cheek done lately?

      --
      Slightly disreputable, albeit gregarious
  4. What an awesome quote on his book cover by DimmO · · Score: 3, Funny

    http://www.schneier.com/images/book-sos-175w.jpg "The closest the security industry has to a rock star" Well, if that's the case, I'll believe anything he says then. I love rock and roll.

    1. Re:What an awesome quote on his book cover by Notquitecajun · · Score: 4, Funny

      So put another dime in the jukebox, baby.

  5. Scareware by InspectorxGadget · · Score: 2, Funny

    If Schneier wants to stop scaring people he should consider trimming his beard. That face-fro looks like it runs Crysis.

    1. Re:Scareware by Fred_A · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't know, add glasses and a crowbar and he could star in a videogame. Seems to me like the kind of guy you want talking about computing.

      --

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      Made from the freshest electrons.
    2. Re:Scareware by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 2, Funny

      Never!

      I wouldn't trust a cryptographer without a beard.

      --
      "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
    3. Re:Scareware by KGIII · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hell. Now serving ice cubes.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  6. Wasn't their a TV advert about this? by MosesJones · · Score: 2, Funny

    scam artists who use fake security alerts to frighten consumers into paying for worthless computer security software

    It was an Apple thing I think warning about some company who was pushing some "extra secure" version of its operating system which in fact gave you less performance and kept nagging at you the whole time. Yup I thought so.

    Oh wait this is some OTHER companies who use security as a scare threat via nagging messages to get you to buy software.

    --
    An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
  7. FAKE security warnings, for Windows? by wvmarle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm truly impressed that people can come up with security warnings about Windows that are not true... after all, is there anything as insecure as Windows?

    The only thing I think they may have a case with is of course the fake software, as in software that does not do what is advertised. And I'm not even thinking of Windows itself this time.

    1. Re:FAKE security warnings, for Windows? by sjwest · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If you run a linux os with a modern web browser, and you visit a site with the scareware it is mildly amusing to see that your registry is screwed up and the site looks like internet explorer in colour scheme but you can download an exe to fix.

      Its happened twice to me, and i find them amusing.

      Im quite sure this is how windows zombies get signed up, but my penguin knows better.

    2. Re:FAKE security warnings, for Windows? by MadJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Were those attack vectors directed at Linux or at packages running on Linux?
      Apache != Linux
      MySQL != Linux
      etc

    3. Re:FAKE security warnings, for Windows? by gaderael · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...after all, is there anything as insecure as Windows?

      Emo kids?

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  8. colors by apodyopsis · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm confused, I don't use windows, but surely somebody could just change the desktop colors and then when a warning alert turned up in the old colors they would know it was a scam?

    Is that too obvious?

    1. Re:colors by MBGMorden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Too obvious for your normal user, yes. Your average geek isn't going to get fooled by these things anyways (heck with the way NoScript and my popup blockers are set I don't see them at all anyways). But to the guy who fumbles with the power button and whose eyes glaze over when you speak of "cut and paste", changing the window colors and then having the foresight to pickup on a different color showing up being bad, is way beyond their capabilities.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    2. Re:colors by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One of my insights doing a stint behind a helldesk was that some otherwise competent, intelligent people will disengage their thought process when sitting behind a keyboard. Sometimes I felt like psychiatrist - or at least what I suspect many of them do:

      1. Listen to problem.
      2. Restate problem as a question.
      3. Confirm answer given by customer is correct.
      4. Assure customer that while correct answer WAS somewhat obvious, we get it all the time and a lot of folks don't figure it out on their own. Add reassuring comment about their savvy in this situation.

  9. Courts determining what's required for security? by compumike · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The law referenced "makes it illegal to misrepresent the extent to which software is required for computer security or privacy." This is such a fishy thing that I'm not really sure if I want courts to determine what exactly is required and therefore whether it is being misrepresented.

    Now, maybe there's a case for fraud if the program doesn't do what it purports to do in its advertising, but that doesn't seem to be what's at stake here.

    There also might be a case for fraud if, perhaps, the advertising pop-ups are being confused for actual Windows messages. But I suppose in the "real world" advertisements mimic other things to be creative, but are still fairly obviously ads.

    Just not sure I like the sound of a law that requires a judge or jury to determine what's required for computer security.

    --
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  10. Re:Courts determining what's required for security by db32 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sounds like it could be used for Microsoft to take a swing at all of the legitimate anti-virus/scumware/etc apps for advertising how critical their software is because Windows has so many problems.

    --
    The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
  11. all anti-virus companies by Jessta · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "the law makes it illegal to misrepresent the extent to which software is required for computer security or privacy,and it provides actual damages or statutory damages of $100,000 per violation, whichever is greater."

    lol, so all the anti-virus software companies(Norton, NOD32,VET etc) and anyone selling 'personal firewall software' is pretty much screwed.

    --
    ...and that is all I have to say about that.
    http://jessta.id.au
  12. More Government Regulation by Jawn98685 · · Score: 3, Funny

    When will these ultra-liberal, extremist zealots realize that more regulation just doesn't work? It is no suprise to see that the term "worthless security software" should be bandied about by such out-of-touch elitist snobs. We all know that the free market should determine what is "worthless" and what is not. Why do socialist thugs like Microsoft and the Washington State Attorney General's Office get off, trying to bully patriotic, tax-paying, small computer security businesses this way?

  13. Oh, it gets worse. by RulerOf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    but surely somebody could just change the desktop colors...

    It's worse than that, because it's even more obvious.

    This is where the end-user epic fail really is:

    Security Alert - Windows Internet Explorer

    Or

    Security Alert - Mozilla Firefox

    End users have so trained themselves to not actually read dialogs that they simply can't tell something they've seen before from something they have not.

    It doesn't take a genius to sit at a computer for hours, and hours, and hours on end, every day, at work and at home, to recognize that your "Security Alert - Windows Internet Explorer" causes the cursor to turn into a pointing finger, just like a hyperlinked picture does on the web.

    It's the inability of people to grasp these kinds of subtleties, despite years upon years of on-hands experience, that makes security a nightmare and things like UAC such a necessity.... Of course, then we get back to the whole not reading dialogs bit.

    Also, predatory software programmers really have culpability. [badanalogy] But to similarly say that it's not your fault you got mugged because you flashed $2000 in cash at 1:00 AM in a biker bar that you've been going to every night for drinks for the last 6 years makes you similarly sound like an idiot.[/badanalogy] Common sense has not much prevalence in the average end-user. Or mugging victim.

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    1. Re:Oh, it gets worse. by RulerOf · · Score: 2, Insightful
      No.

      I'm saying that if you're too ignorant to understand that you're asking for it because you feel it's not worth your time to learn anything from your hands-on experience, then it's your own damn fault that you put yourself in that situation. I never said there was anything right or just about crime.

      --
      Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
  14. It's about time by jassa · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm glad someone is finally taking action against these malware scammers. I do tech support part time and 95% of my recent virus removal jobs have involved these nasty little programs.

  15. Re:You are trying to file a lawsuit. Cancel or All by tzhuge · · Score: 2

    I'm actually not sure what you're trying to say... Your comment vaguely appeals to \. sentiment, but what exactly are you getting at? MS spreads FUD is somewhat off-topic...

    Are you suggesting that MS scares users with security alerts into purchasing their software, which is legendary for being secure?

  16. Re:You are trying to file a lawsuit. Cancel or All by Hyppy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    An important update to your software is available! Please download and install "Windows Genuine Advantage" now!

  17. Scaring consumers = basis of modern advertising by kaltkalt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Modern commercials rely on one of two things to sell a product or service. One, you will improve your chances of having sexual intercourse with a desireable mate if you purchase our product/service. Two, you are in danger and you need to purchase our product/service to be safe. Over the past couple of years the "scare" meme has turned into more of a direct threat. The best example is those horrible, evil free credit report dot com commercials, where they come out and say if you don't buy our product you'll lose all your money and have to work at a crappy seafood restaurant and drive a shit car (the fact that they're selling something is only to be discerned in the fine print at the bottom of the commercial and the last few words, quickly rattled off, at the end of the commercial). "Buy our product or be poor" is a threat. Auto insurance companies do this a lot too... I just saw an Allstate ad that showed a family losing all their money due to a car accident because they didn't have Allstate insurance. None of these threats is a legitimate concern for consumers. There's nothing different about saying consumers have a security problem on their computers and need to buy software to fix it. "Buy our product or hackers will destroy your computer and steal your private data." It should be illegal to threaten consumers. Such commercial speech should not be protected by the First Amendment.

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    Stupid people make stupid things profitable.