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Python 2.6 to Smooth the Way for 3.0, Coming Next Month

darthcamaro writes "Some programming languages just move on to major version numbers, leaving older legacy versions (and users) behind, but that's not the plan for Python. Python 2.6 has the key goal of trying to ensure compatibility between Python 2.x and Python 3.0, which is due out in a month's time. From the article: 'Once you have your code running on 2.6, you can start getting ready for 3.0 in a number of ways,' Guido Van Rossum said. 'In particular, you can turn on "Py3k warnings," which will warn you about obsolete usage patterns for which alternatives already exist in 2.6. You can then change your code to use the modern alternative, and this will make you more ready for 3.0.'"

11 of 184 comments (clear)

  1. tough transitions by AceJohnny · · Score: 4, Interesting

    These kind of compatibility switches are make-or-break. I'm glad there's Python 2.6 to try to ease the problem, but Py3k means that everybody who publishes python software will all of a sudden have to maintain 2 branches, for Python 2.X line and Python 3.X line.

    This isn't the same as one software package having "legacy" and "bleeding edge" branches, because that's their own choice. In this case the underlying language is forcing them to choose.

    Honestly, I'm not confident in the economics of such transitions, and believe Py3k will die out.

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    1. Re:tough transitions by imbaczek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      it'll take several years, but a critical mass will switch eventually IMHO.

  2. Re:More ready? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Technically the correct term would be readier, but that sounds a little awkward to some people. Generally the rule is: One Syllable=[adjective]er More than one Syllable=more [adjective] Unfortunately very few people tend to adhere to this. They usually randomly pick one method or the other, or worse, they use both. (more readier).

    Ready has two syllables.

  3. Cut the crap. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    These changes are NOT earth-shattering. 2.6 is mostly just going to add a few new features, most important being the with statement. Most code written using Python idioms will be fine under 2.6 and 3.0. Now, if you tried to write Java-esque or C-esque code under Python, you might run into issues. Even then, I doubt it. They've been deprecating features for awhile, and 3.0 is probably the point at which they'll be yanked...you've only had a year or two of DeprecationWarnings.

    I'm not sure why people whine about a language evolving. Retain backwards compatibility to a fault and you end up with C++, which is crippled by C-isms. You either know your code well enough that you could make the small incremental changes along the way, or you simply don't upgrade.

    Python most needs sane standard libraries. It is far too much of a "let's throw this in there" with three different naming conventions and no package organization. It is a shame, because the language itself is pretty powerful in the right hands.

  4. String f**k up by spitzak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Reading the release, they have decided to really push 16-bit strings (they call this "Unicode" but it really is what is called UTF-16). I think this is a serious mistake.

    The proper solution is to use 8-bit strings, but any functions that care (such as I/O) should treat them as being UTF-8. Most functions do not care and thus the treatment of "Unicode" and "bytes" are the same.

    The problem with UTF-16 is you cannot losslessly convert a string that *might* be UTF-8 to UTF-16 and then back again. This is because any illegal UTF-8 byte sequences will be lost or altered. This is a MAJOR problem for code that wants to process data that is likely to be text but must not be altered under any circumstances, in effect such programs are forced to be ASCII-only, even though UTF-8 is purposly designed so that such programs could display all the Unicode characters. Note that bad UTF-16 (ie with mismatched surrogate pairs) can be losslessly converted to UTF-8 and back.

    This has been a real pain so far in our use of Python, and I am quite alarmed to see that they are changing the meaning of plain quotes in 3.0 to "Unicode". This is really a serious step backwards, as we will be forced to tell anybody using our system to put 'b' before all their string constants and I suspect there will be a lot less automatic conversion of these strings to unicode when we want to display them. Note that Qt is also causing a lot of trouble here too.

    1. Re:String f**k up by spitzak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, think a little harder.

      Imagine a file system that names the files with strings of bytes.

      It is absolutely vital that if I ask for a list of files and then try to open them, that this all work, no matter what byte sequence has managed to get in there as a filename.

      It is also *nice* but nowhere near as vital that I be able to show these names to users and they read them as Unicode strings.

    2. Re:String f**k up by spitzak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You might not be aware of this, but computers are used for more than just transmitting text. I don't want my binary streams being rewritten to gibberish because some I/O routine was written to be too clever

      Thank you for explaining exactly why I want UTF-8 to be used, while thinking you were arguing against it.

      Data is NOT just text. Therefore we should not be mangling it because we think it is text. We have enough trouble with MSDOS inserting \r characters. This crap is a million times worse.

    3. Re:String f**k up by spitzak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Spoken like somebody that's never had to deal with encoding issues. Using UTF-8 internally is fine, but exposing it to the programmer is insane and error-prone. And if the programmer then proceeds to manipulate that raw byte buffer as a string, he's an idiot.

      The compiler will turn "unicode" into the utf-8 encoding. The programmer does not see \xnn sequences of the utf-8 bytes. Try some modern compilers with utf-8 support some day before you say anything stupid again.

      Any programmer that modifies UTF-16 as a raw array of words is an idiot. Besides surrogate pairs, there are combining characters and bidirectional indicators and lots of other trouble. In fact I prefer UTF-8 exactly because it discourages such misuse of strings, which are really made of words, sentences, etc.

      If you try to convert bytes that aren't in UTF-8 using a UTF-8 codec, an error will be raised. This behavior is proper -- if you don't know what format your input is in, there's no way to perform text-based operations on it.

      You have just introduced a massive DOS hole into your programs. Or do you really think you should run a "is this correct UTF-8" call before any attempt to convert? Sorry, it is not going to raise an error, it will instead convert to error UTF-16 characters.

      Every developer I know uses Unicode strings already. The new behavior is just one less character to type in front of literals.

      You know that Python will convert your bytes from UTF-8 to "Unicode" automatically when needed? No you didn't? Might want to study up on that...

      Otherwise said as: "We're too stupid to fix the glaring encoding errors in our product

      The encoding errors are not in our product. They are in the files we are attempting to read (metadata attached to images, mostly). Dumbass

  5. Not really by widman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You can keep your code compatible with both at the same time. Deprecated features are trivial to rewrite in most cases. There are even tools for this.

  6. Doesn't matter by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Most distros already include the current and previous versions of Python. So Ubuntu, for instance, will include 2.6 and 3.0, and possibly 2.5 as well.

    Furthermore, you can check to see what version of Python you're running under and make your code so that it accomodates both. This is all accessible via sys.version or sys.version_info


    >>> sys.version
    '2.5.1 (r251:54863, Jul 31 2008, 22:53:39) \n[GCC 4.1.2 (Ubuntu 4.1.2-0ubuntu4)]
    >>> sys.version_info
    (2, 5, 1, 'final', 0)

    With that knowledge, you just put all your version specific stuff in modules.

    So you can do a:

    import sys
    major,minor,micro,release,release_num = sys.version
    if (major > 3):
            import module_for_python_3.0
    else:
            import module_for_python_2.x

  7. Old news... by pdxp · · Score: 4, Interesting

    3.0rc1 (beta) is already available and has been for some time now. The advantage of 2.6 is not as much its backward-compatibility but its ability to tell you exactly what needs to change (via runtime warnings) for 3.0 without actually breaking your code. I've been using both for months now, so this article isn't exactly hot news.