Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Adding jQuery To Visual Studio
Tim Anderson writes "Microsoft's Scott Guthrie, Corporate VP of the .NET developer division, announced that the open source jQuery Javascript library will be integrated into Visual Studio, the main Windows development tool. Further, Microsoft will treat jQuery as a supported product within technical support contracts, and will use jQuery to build new controls for ASP.NET, its web platform."
If this sounds familiar to you it's probably because we already talked about it.
Anyone that has used VisualStudio or any of MS programming options will cringe at MS definition of "integrate".
Uh, care to elaborate on that? I've used VS before and I've actually found their integration of technologies (SOAP for example) to be quite nice. VS is one of the few MS products that hasn't turned into a completely piece of shit over the years....but I'll still take Eclipse over it any day.
The studio itself is fine. I don't think its built with a bunch of different technologies. Its basically C++. But the products it creates are patched together with all sorts of things. They give you sort of, "widgets" that you just drag in. They try to abstract whether the widget was made in visual C++, C#, Visual Basic, etc. But in the end, it can be important to understand what these things are.
You can make some really nasty quick and dirty stuff in Visual Studio. Sure if you are out to make solid code you can do that as well. But it can get frustrating as you have to keep smacking down the widget approach.
Your post is also redundant since the first post says the same thing :-)
(Yes I read *all* post before posting this - so your revenge will have to wait)
I think you know Step 3.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
I think read once is optimistic.
Folks, lemme tell you whatever you remember from learning javascript is largely irrelevant, especially memorizing and learning to 'read' all those ugly syntactical structures of text. In a word, jQuery is 'efficient'. Also, you know all those ajax modal & pop-up windows you see on 'web 2.0' sites, with the soft rounded corners. That's probably jQuery, more likely than not, and it is *easy* to code for, across browser. If you've avoided learning Ajax, you were smart to wait for jQuery.
No kidding. Ever look at how AJAX is handled on .net sites created in VS? javascript:__doPostBack('ctl00$cphMain$lnkTotalDnsManager','')
Talk about maintainable!
I have to give credit where credit is due - master pages are pretty damn handy, but the rest of what I've worked with in VS seems like a bunch of cobbled-together nonsense produced by people who failed their programming classes with the goal of creating the slowest IDE in the history of the known universe.
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
I assume this is a deliberate troll because nobody could actually be that stupid. After all, you don't need to google jquery to see you have it completely backwards, it only requires reading the summary.
In short: jQuery is not Microsoft's ripoff of anything, and they are not open sourcing it. It already WAS open source (dual MIT/GPL licensed), and it wasn't written by them. It was created by John Resig who now works for Mozilla.
So far from being the latest example of MS's "Not Invented Here" problem, it's actually a suggestion that they may be overcoming NIH. And when you say "They could have joined the existing communities and worked with them" - that's what they did.
If you really must come out with a standard-issue anti-MS troll, I believe the "they'll embrace, extend, extinguish it, just you wait and see" one is the correct one to use in this situation.
Oh, and as for Prototype/scriptaculous doing it better... *shrug* well I prefer jQuery but it's obviously a matter of opinion to some extent, so if you found you prefered them (or mootools, or YUI, or whatever), fair enough. That said, your given justification is off target, jQuery has a plugin system so if you don't want a bunch of UI level stuff but just the "lower-layer stuff", that works too. Admittedly the distinction of what is lower layer and what is plugin may be slightly different between projects, and jquery core does include some animation related stuff, but still, you can't realistically imply jquery is monolithically bloated.
*sigh* I guess I shouldn't feed the trolls.
This is just one more in a long line of examples of Microsoft's "Not Invented Here" attitude problem. They could have joined the existing communities and worked with them. Open sourcing jQuery will not fix the problem -- the open source community still hates Microsoft's guts for exactly this type of behavior.
"You speak of what you know not, O trollish one."
jQuery was not written by Microsoft. It has been used by many web pages/applications before this announcement.
jQuery was written by John Resig, who currently works for the Mozilla Corporation.
J'aime mieux les méchants que les imbéciles, parce qu'ils se reposent. -- Alexandre Dumas
parent comment is so far off base its not even funny. If you RTFA then you'd realise that:
1. jQuery is not an MS product, and has not being bought by MS.
2. jQuery is an open source product that they have no control over. They've explicitly stated they will not fork from the main trunk.
3. The reason this is news is that it is going against the track record of "Not Invented Here"
But why let reality get in the way of being able to put down MS (surprised you resisted the temptation to use a $)!
Because the jQuery maintainers are going to happily incorporate Windows-only modifications made by Microsoft to the library, correct?
Because "we'll be shipping jQuery as-is, and submit patches to it like everyone else" means something weird and wacky you must have deduced ahead of us. Correct?
Actually I'm at a loss here. Could you enlighten us as to how these evil tricksies will take place.
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
He posted less than a minute after the first poster...don't be a douchebag.
"Nobody owns the fucking words man." - James Dean
Step 3: Mess it up?
Do not trust this signature.
Have you ever even learned jQuery?
Have you ever read the project founder's book? It's not from Microsoft Press.
As an open source JavaScript developer I hate IE and Microsoft just as much as the next guy. But if you're going to bash Microsoft, please keep to the facts.
I really doubt that this is a case where extend and extinguish is really viable or intended. Its not like jquery is some fundamental piece of open source that it's destruction would advance ms in any way, as you note there are tons of other similar active great projects.
If they wanted to extinguish it then I doubt they would make it such a core piece of Visual Studio. It sounds to me like they finally realized how retarded visual studio was compared to what was freely available and decided to just integrate with a good existing project. If anything I think that in this specific area they plan on working with the community in a positive way.
so at worse I think we will see some unpleasant branching or the addition of some lame IE specific code. Its a rare case where one can say kudos MS! They integrated with a good project for the right reasons.
Actually, that isn't so bad... with the ASP.Net MVC, the Dynamic Data, and Jayrock, you have about all you need, in a set of libraries that aren't a total pain to work with. I love what Jayrock adds to HttpHandler myself.
.Net itself more than most other languages/platforms as well. I just wish that MS stopped trying to over-engineer everything for the enterprise developer. That's my biggest gripe with the Java frameworks out there. Yeah, you can whip up a decent web application in no time at all with the ASP.Net controls stack, but when you want (or need) to scale out it falls apart. ASP.Net AJAX doesn't scale at all, and is hampered by its' own weight. Anthem and other similar frameworks worked better in a similar fashion, and Jayrock separates things out, and scales far better.
I love master pages, as the way they work is above and beyond what most other template systems offer. I like C# and
Silverlight sometimes seems like a solution waiting for a problem, but it's cool, and at least will scale with client growth. Silverlight + Dynamic Data (Astoria) is awesome, if limited to those with Silverlight/Moonlight installed. I don't know where development is going in the next couple years. I just hope that it doesn't all fall down.
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
I am one of the developers working on javascript support in VS. I am working very closely with jquery support. Our goal is to get as many developers as possible using our tools. That means supporting libraries that web developers want to use.
People are nervous because we seen this pattern before on a non-open source (at the time) language/library. It went like this:
1. Incorporate JQuery into visual studio and add windows specific code to "enhance the productivity within visual studio".
2. Books and MSDN will refer to the Microsoft extensions as cool ways to get thing done in JQuery, and people new to the software will gravitate to the Microsoft version, colleges will teach it (most colleges use Windows in their labs), and since most people use windows anyway they see no harm in adopting the extended edition.
3. Continue to refer the extended version as JQuery, causing confusion between the Microsoft version and the official version.
4. JQuery loses enough share to the Microsoft version to cause some grief to the non-microsoft developers. Especially since a lot of enterprises are sold on the Microsoft method of IT, and would like their developers to take advantage of the Microsoft technology.
5. By the time damage is done and JQuery complains, Microsoft will rename their version JQ++
6. Eventually Microsoft will abandon JQ++ and move all new development to Query.net.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Is there any similar effort toward building eclipse/netbeans/??? IDE's for jquery?