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Firefox Add-On To Track Your Location Via Wi-Fi

Posted by timothy on from the location-aware dept.

Barence writes "Mozilla Labs has unveiled a new Add-on that allows Firefox to pinpoint your location based on Wi-Fi signals. The feature, called Geode, is a prototype for the location-tracking technology that will be built into the forthcoming Firefox 3.1. Geode is designed to work with websites that rely on knowing your location, such as mapping and geotagging services. The prospect of Firefox having the ability to track your location raises obvious privacy fears. Mozilla insists users will remain in complete control. 'With Geode, when a website requests your location a notification bar will ask how much information you want to give that site: your exact location, your neighbourhood, your city, or nothing at all,' the Mozilla Labs blog claims."

37 of 181 comments (clear)

  1. Big Brother is like a fox on fire by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 5, Funny

    And twice as annoying.

    Excuse me while I install this on my son's laptop ... without him knowing.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Big Brother is like a fox on fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dad, stop messing with my laptop.

  2. They'll never track me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm wearing my tinfoil underwear.

    Oh crap, this means I need to wear underwear at the computer.

    1. Re:They'll never track me by nahdude812 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Let's see, based on nearby access points, I'd say you're on Linksys Avenue, Linksysburgh, Linksys County, LI.

      --
      Slay a dragon... over lunch!
  3. Why Not... by jpatters · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why not let it give the user the option of telling the web site some arbitrary location?

    --
    "Remember, there never were pineapple-almond cookies here."
    1. Re:Why Not... by einer · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you'd bother reading to the second sentence: " The feature, called Geode, is a prototype for the location-tracking technology that will be built into the forthcoming Firefox 3.1."

      You can't not install it, it's already installed.

      Other than that, you seem to be traveling.... you get the point

    2. Re:Why Not... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you'd bother RTFyouknowwhat...

      Geode is an extension, and it will not be in Firefox unless you add it to Firefox. Firefox 3.1 will not have any "location-tracking technology", it will just expose the W3C geolocation API so extensions such as Geode can answer to document.geolocation calls from a script. A naked Firefox doesn't know zilch about its location.

      The article is misworded but understandable with a little good will.

    3. Re:Why Not... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well if you are on Windows you might want to try Kmeleon which is just Firefox without any bloat. Very fast and now that they have easy to install versions of flashblock and noscript I've been using it more and more and it is quite nice and a lot faster than FF3 on Windows.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  4. Going back to hard-wired connection by TheNecromancer · · Score: 5, Funny

    I sure hope Best Buy still sells that 2-mile long ethernet cable...

    --
    Attention all planets of the Solar Federation! We have assumed control! - Neil Peart
    1. Re:Going back to hard-wired connection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'd tap that! Wait...

    2. Re:Going back to hard-wired connection by justdaven · · Score: 2, Informative

      100 meter cat 5 limit :)

  5. ... It's an addon, not a cookie. by plasmacutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The addon has to be manually installed.

    It's not a piece of malware, it's not surreptitiously installed by remote servers. It's strictly voluntary.

    The only privacy concerns which arise from this are if people are not careful enough with the addon to disable it.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    1. Re:... It's an addon, not a cookie. by truthsearch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except the summary states "the location-tracking technology... will be built into the forthcoming Firefox 3.1."

      I'd much rather this remain a separately downloadable add-on.

      --
      Developers: We can use your help.
    2. Re:... It's an addon, not a cookie. by buchner.johannes · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'd much rather this remain a separately downloadable add-on.

      It is designed so that every application has to get the agreement from the user first. He/She may choose to permit access to the accurate or approximate coordinates (or to deny access).

      Source: heise.de (german)

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    3. Re:... It's an addon, not a cookie. by truthsearch · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Just being included would make it open to security problems. Someday a vulnerability might let a sight activate it using JavaScript, for example.

      I'm a minimalist. If I'm not going to ever use it, I'd rather it not be on the computer at all, especially if it's a potential privacy issue.

      And we all know that your average Firefox user will always be going to mozilla for their builds. I doubt a fork that removes this component would gain much traction.

      --
      Developers: We can use your help.
  6. Stupid by BCW2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The default damn well better be "nothing at all" or the lawsuits will be spectacular.

    --
    Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
  7. Just one implementation of W3C Geolocation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://dev.w3.org/geo/api/spec-source.html
    http://labs.mozilla.com/2008/10/introducing-geode/

  8. Forgot a function by CaptainPatent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Geode is designed to work with websites that rely on knowing your location, such as mapping, geotagging services, and location-based advertising.

    Hey, they've got to be making money off of it somehow.

    --
    Well, back to rejecting software patent applications.
  9. Control is not enough by Improv · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just like providing DRM systems, there is the danger, when providing this capacity, for websites to begin to demand it, something they can't easily do now because there's no infrastructure to demand it.

    Of course, this is a constant danger/possibility - some days I regret that Javascript was invented because a number of sites don't work at all unless I tell NoScript to allow JS on them. Cost of progress, I guess...

    --
    For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    1. Re:Control is not enough by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      there is the danger, when providing this capacity, for websites to begin to demand it

      There is also the source code, freely available and modifiable, which means you could easily tell such websites that your current location is Fuckoff, in the fine state of NoneOfYourDamnedBusiness.

      a number of sites don't work at all unless I tell NoScript to allow JS on them.

      Hey, it could always be worse. You could always stumble on a site that doesn't work unless you allow Flash on it.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  10. Questions by speroni · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is this IP address driven? Is this mostly for public hotspots? Will one be able to register their home Wifi signal?

    Will one be able to register their neighbors unsecured wifi signal?

    Will there be reverse look uo p for public hotspots? How about "Public" hotspots?

    --
    Eschew Obfuscation
  11. How does wifi "pinpoint your location"? by FourthAge · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does this require each hotspot owner to register the location of his/her hotspot, so that a database can be queried to find the location?

    e.g. "I can see access points with MAC addresses 00:60:08:57:3C:D2 and 00:E0:18:77:D6:40 so I know I'm at 37 23.516 -122 02.625.."

    How many hotspot owners can be bothered to register their correct location? And re-register it if their IP address changes? How many even change their password?

    --
    The tao of democracy: the government you can vote for is not the real government.
    1. Re:How does wifi "pinpoint your location"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      They sent vehicles out with Wi-fi scanners to catalog broadcast MAC addresses and then map those wireless devices via their GPS location. All that data is then funneled into a database so the position of the Wireless device can be easily "looked up." The downside is that wireless devices are not static and can be easily moved or turned off. So the database must be constantly updated.

    2. Re:How does wifi "pinpoint your location"? by Idiomatick · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It could be updated by the users of firefox, assuming the world didnt move to the west 20meters you should be able to figure out a few routers moving at a time. Sounds like a really fun/interesting code challenge.

    3. Re:How does wifi "pinpoint your location"? by alerante · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wi-Fi location works kind of like Google Street View — someone drives around and collects information on the wireless devices in the area. All of this data is subsequently collected into a database, which is then used to look up locations based on the names and strengths of nearby networks.

  12. Privacy depends on the nature of services by HAL9000_mirror · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If a service can offer a better experience if it knows my location without having to login and identify myself, it is useful in many scenarios. For example, advertising a deal or a offering a coupon for an item in a nearby store. But like any technology, it can definitely be abused.

    There are a few problems with WiFi based location estimation. For example, the SSID may change or vanish. Secondly, it can easily be abused by reporting false location. On the contrary, it can work indoors unlike most commercial GPS'es.

    This technology gained attention with the Place Lab (http://www.placelab.org/) initiative.

  13. Re:Solution to a non-problem? by athakur999 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    IP geolocation usually only gets you down to the city level usually and even then the city you get isn't always accurate. Using wifi signals (I assume they keep a keep a database of SSIDs and AP MAC addresses to compare against) should be able to get your location down to at least the city block level which is much more useful.

    --
    "People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
  14. Alright! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Now I know exactly where Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is!

  15. Tracking an IP by fireheadca · · Score: 4, Funny

    Then I'll create a GUI interface in Visual Basic and see if I can track an IP address

  16. Compatible with what iPhone websites use? by Yvan256 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is there even such a thing anyway?

    I hope the Firefox team, Apple, Opera and Google will soon sit down and establish a standard for such things (new metas, new javascript, whatever). Tell Microsoft about it, but don't wait for them.

    Also, won't AMD sue for using the Geode name?

  17. Undefined license for proprietary component! by hackel · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From the included LICENSE.TXT:

    "The XPCom component contained within the contents of this extension is licensed by
    Skyhook Wireless, Inc. ("Skyhook") and are subject to the Skyhook license and
    terms of use (the "Skyhook License"); you may not use this component except
    in compliance with the Skyhook License.

    You may obtain a copy of the Skyhook License at [need URL]"

    I didn't look long, but I could not find any "Skyhook License" on Skyhook's website (which is I guess why they chose not to fill in the URL!). I certainly would not use a product for which the license was in question like this, especially considering the proprietary, binary-only DLLs they provide. Not that I would be able to try it out, since it only includes 32-bit Windows and Mac libraries, no Linux at all.

    Buyer beware, as they say...

  18. Other location services by vrmlguy · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are other ways to approximate your location when you aren't using wi-fi. As an example, http://www.geobytes.com/ipLocator.htm will give you a location derived from your ISP's. Also, a way to set a location in your Firefox profile would be useful for desktop PCs that rarely move. And I should note that Ubiquity is currently using the MaxMind geo-api (http://www.maxmind.com/app/api) for very similar purposes.

    --
    Nothing for 6-digit uids?
  19. How about... by Twyst3d · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Every day at midnight, the geode add on wakes your laptop and sends a very quick communication to a database online. The database is simple. Geode identifier and a y/n column for has your computer been stolen? If a user has reported his laptop stolen the connection stays on and local authorities are notified.

    --
    And this has been another installament of Captain Obvious! /whoosh
  20. Firefox 3.1? by B5_geek · · Score: 3, Interesting

    And thus marks the end my my upgrade path with Firefox. It's been nice, so long and thanks for all the fish!

    --
    "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
    1. Re:Firefox 3.1? by cabjf · · Score: 2, Informative

      Like this? http://code.google.com/p/arora/

  21. Re:Solution to a non-problem? by Takumi2501 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My GPS does a perfectly good job of this.

    Thanks anyway.

    --
    Sent from my computer.
    Now GET OFF MY LAWN!
  22. Wrong fears ? by nsebban · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "The prospect of Firefox having the ability to track your location raises obvious privacy fears."

    What I fear more is Firefox becoming everything but what people need it to be. You know, a web browser.
    Please wake me up when someone decides to fork FF and remove all the useless crap that's being added lately. We're far from what made many of us tech-savvy people switch to what used to be a lightweight, efficient and secure web browser.

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    ____
    nico
    Nico-Live