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Old Materials Resurface For "Prebiotic Soup"
AliasMarlowe writes "Stanley Miller performed the famous experiments in the 1950s showing that amino acids and other building blocks for biomolecules could be produced by passing lightning through a mix of simple hydrocarbons, water vapor, and ammonia (thought at the time to approximate the Earth's early atmosphere). Other experiments approximated the environment around volcanic eruptions, but those results were not published. Following his death last year, a former student discovered the materials from those experiments, in labelled vials. Analysis of this material indicates that the conditions around volcanic eruptions (still thought to be representative of such events in the early Earth) resulted in a higher yield of amino acids than the simple lightning experiments, and resulted in a greater variety of amino acids." Pharyngula has a discussion of the Science paper, including a graph of the amino acids produced.
IAANAMB but if you think about it, changes in composition would not void the findings in the experiment. If after the initial experiment the samples were kept in closed vials and out of sunlight, then 60 years later were analyzed for content and the amino acids were found that means one of the following: Either the amino acids were formed in the volcano-like conditions of the original experiment, something more complex was formed in the original experiment and broke down to more simple amino acids over time, or nothing much was formed in the original experiment, but in the ensuing 60 years something reacted to form the amino acids. All of these presuppose the formation of amino acids in either prebiotic earth conditions or sealed-vial-kept-in-a-dark-closet conditions. It would be more surprising if they formed under the latter, than under the former conditions.
Amazing how much of the stuff in high school biology texts turns out to be not-quite-as-advertised.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
Or, we have more accurate methods of detecting amino acids in 2008 than in the mid 20th century.
Also, keep in mind that they're comparing modern day analysis of sample B to 60 year old analysis of sample A.
Jesus Christ. Just shut the fuck up. We're all tired of these random stupid political pieces attached to every goddamn article. Just fucking quit.
It's unfortunate that we can't just look at the results of scientific experiments at face value without requiring a religious interpretation tacked on to the end
Why not? That's what scientists do. It's almost everyone else who has that problem.
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Well virtually every cubic centimeter on the planet already contains some form of life already. Chances are a random collection of amino acids, phosphates, and maybe even a base sugar or two that could have eventually possibly evolved into a totally new life form before life existed will actually just get swallowed up by a passing bacterium or amoeba today.
I find the theory that the universe and earth are fine tuned for life on this planet a ludicrous example of rectal/cranial inversion.
The assumption that the conditions on the planet earth are created just so current life forms can exist presumes that previous life on this planet could have existed in the current conditions. The fossil records seems to indicate that this is not correct.
Life exists here because it formed here. Had it formed on some other planet (and it might have) then it would have formed to suit that environment as if it had been fine tuned for life. Creatures that live on the ocean floor by thermal vents live in an environment that would kill surface lifeforms almost instantly. How is this 'fine tuning' anything? It isn't. Lifeforms evolved to suit a particular environment, not the other way around. Intelligent Design is ludicrous. Ever hear of congenital deformities? With every discovery of a link between genetics and human behavior and disease, ID loses even more. It doesn't appear to be that complex or even intelligent of a design. In fact, more and more it looks like there was no design, that it was all done accidentally, incrementally, and haphazardly. I don't think the appendix was part of the great design for modern man. How many of us actually use or still have wisdom teeth? How are your tonsils doing? Yes, all part of a wonderful design. Are you genetically predisposed to being fat? Gay? Have heart attacks? Cancer? Yes, a wonderfully intelligent design.
so... NO, this discovery does NOT support ID. It supports the theory that life on Earth is a wonderful and amazing accident.
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ever heard of the law of extremely large numbers?
if probability is 1 in 10^23 and there are 10^26 trials then you should, statistically speaking, have approximately 10^3 occurances
people also seem to think the real world is stuck to doing serial "trials" when in reality it is massively parallel.
PS: random assembly can lead to self replicating molecules in a soup containing the appropriate precusors, it's been replicated i just don't have a link ATM
If you cannot keep politics out of your moderation remove yourself from the Mod Lottery.. NOW!
I've never understood why many people can't accept the co-existence of science and religion. They do not have to be mutually exclusive, it's just the extremists on both sides which create the problem.
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Take Christianity and The Big Bang theroy. They work out just fine, so long as the Christian can accept that the Bible may not be a 100% accurate portrayal of how God did it. And the science side doesn't get up in arms with the idea that god wrote the laws of the universe. You know, maybe he dumbed it down a bit so that his bronze age audience could understand it.
My usual view of it is about:
God: In the beginning there was nothing, not time, not space, truly absolutely nothing.
Well, the quiet was nice, but it got boring fast. So, I figured I would write up the basic laws to run a universe, kick start it and see what that got me.
Abraham: Nothing, Universal Laws, kick start, got it. But what do you mean by "no time", how can you have no time?
God: Just go with me on that one, you'll figure it out later.
Abraham:OK.
God:So, the Universe exploded into existence, as it expanded a high energy plasma began to condense down into quarks, anti-quarks and a whole host of other sub-atomic particles. And it was truly chaos. Particles and their anti-particles were colliding and mutually an... Yes, what it is Abraham, why are you raising your hand, do you need to pee?
Abraham: Um, I think you lost me at about "Plasma", and I know what a "cork" is, but what's and "anti-cork", it is some kind of spout?
God: Oh right, a few thousands years early on those, aren't I? Um, how are you with Calculus?
Abraham: Calcu-what?
God: Non-euclidean algebra?
Abraham:
God: Right, fuck it. New clay tablet. In the beginning I said, "Let there be light!" and there was, and it was good. Still with me?
You know, maybe the Bible/Koran/Torah aren't really literal versions of what happened. Maybe they are just metaphors which worked for early man, and God hasn't bothered to update them.
And no matter how fun it is to pick on religious folk, there is really no harm in them believing that there is an invisible sky wizard behind everything. As long as they aren't forcing that belief on others. Or trying to harm others who disagree with them.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
Life exists here because it formed here. Had it formed on some other planet (and it might have) then it would have formed to suit that environment as if it had been fine tuned for life.
The best phrasing I've heard for that (may have come from a /. sig - I don't recall) was:
Remarking that the earth is perfectly suited to support its inhabitants is like a puddle of water remarking that its pot hole is perfectly contoured to its shape.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
The distinction between life and non-life is quite big, so ...
This is a false premise. While there is a noticeable gap between things that are definitely alive and things that definitely aren't, there are intermediate forms which we have a harder time classifying (e.g. viruses). Rather than a single "big and spontaneous" event, consider that non-living structures can gradually transition through various levels of semi-life before eventually giving way to something we would clearly recognize as a living organism.
"The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
"The existence of God is a binary choice: God exists or God does not exist. One of these statements is true and one is false"
Um....no. Other possibilities: God used to exist. God doesn't exist, yet. God, which one(s)? Loki, Thor, Brahma? All of the above? None? Some combination of the above that ooze out, separate, then merge back together like the blob? Or unknown? Binary choice my ass. The rest of your post is similarly poorly thought out.
I figured it out: I also am not a molecular biologist
Shorter version: I believe in X because I assume it to be true.