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Learning To Profit From Piracy

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "Wired has an interview with Matt Mason, author of The Pirate's Dilemma: How Youth Culture Is Reinventing Capitalism, which discusses how businesses could make money off of piracy, rather than attacking people in a futile attempt to suppress it. And some of his ideas are gaining traction; work is underway on a TV show called Pirate TV, which he describes as 'two parts Anthony Bourdain, one part Mythbusters.' (Heroes executive producer Jesse Alexander is on board.) Also, Mason is pretty good about practicing what he preaches in that you can pirate his book on his own website."

31 of 275 comments (clear)

  1. Pirates Attacking People?? by TheNecromancer · · Score: 4, Funny

    Arrr, we know you're 'ere, poppet!!

    --
    Attention all planets of the Solar Federation! We have assumed control! - Neil Peart
    1. Re:Pirates Attacking People?? by kz45 · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Arrr, we know you're 'ere, poppet!!"

      Haha, it's SO funny when you use the literal term for pirate.

      you must be gay (i'm using the literal term for happiness).

  2. It's not piracy if it's OK by giorgist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You are not pirating his book if he picks a license that allows you to copy. Otherwise he is being the pirate, by making available a copyright work.

    1. Re:It's not piracy if it's OK by ari_j · · Score: 4, Informative

      If it's his own property, placing it online with the intent that you download it probably creates a license. Just because it's not in writing doesn't mean it's not enforceable. And regardless of that, putting it online with the intent that you download it precludes any claim that your downloading it is piracy.

      He's definitely practicing one thing that he preaches, though: Finding a way to profit from piracy. In his case, he's profiting by capitalizing on the media attention that talking about copyright piracy gets. If he makes even one dollar, he's profited more from piracy than I have, so I'll give him that.

  3. Nitpick by JustinOpinion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Also, Mason is pretty good about practicing what he preaches in that you can pirate his book on his own website

    I dislike the use of the vague and slanted term "pirate" in place of the more exact "copyright infringement".

    But the use in the summary is even worse. If he's freely offering the content, then those who download it are not pirating (even by the inaccurate, though generally-used, definition). Then are downloading it with permission.

    (It's like someone giving out free food samples at a grocery store, and then saying "go ahead, steal another.")

    1. Re:Nitpick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If you read the article, he's using the word "piracy" in place of the more correct term "network effect". Redistribution is a secondary effect of P2P protocols, if it were a straight download the infringer would be the distributor while the "pirate" is the individual who first ripped and uploaded the "loot".

      These things were expressed clearly over 5 years ago, the reason "pirates" don't like him is because he comes over like some PR shill employing reverse psychology. It's either deliberate or he doesn't "get it", which would extend to reading and understanding relevant work in the field.

    2. Re:Nitpick by CSMatt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem with the terminology is that words like "theft" and "steal" (which gain merit from the word "piracy," as this was one thing sea pirates did) are deliberately used by the powers that be to confuse people into thinking that the infringement of copyright carries exactly the same consequences as shoplifting or other deprivation of physical property. Only a moron would believe that you can receive spam (the food) through e-mail.

    3. Re:Nitpick by LandDolphin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "confuse people into thinking that the infringement of copyright carries exactly the same consequences as shoplifting or other deprivation of physical property"

      As it stands, you'd get in less trouble for stealing a CD then copyright infringement

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    4. Re:Nitpick by Wildclaw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Which makes sense if you think those in power mainly are interested in creating artifical scarcity to maintain control. A shoplifted CD doesn't decrease scarcity, while a copied one does.

    5. Re:Nitpick by David+Gould · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Look people. Quit equating "piracy" as in "Arrrgh, matey. Ye be walkin the plank!" with "piracy" as in "I downloaded the latest Adobe Photoshop without paying for it!". They are spelled the same, but they aren't the same word (you know, a homonym).

      It is the same word, but with two very different meanings. The word was chosen in order to create an association in people's minds between copyright infringement and one of the most despicable types of crime known at the time. If the phenomenon of copyright infringement were only now beginning, and in need of a catchy name, they'd be calling it "terrorism", and arguing that PATRIOT Act powers should be invoked for copyright enforcement. This matters. Arrrrr.

      --
      David Gould
      main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
    6. Re:Nitpick by LandDolphin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      IF a million people (in America/Europe) want to download a CD, then there is probably enough draw that the artist will sell some CD's too.

      one downloaded song does not equal one lost sale. Many people that download would never purchase albums in the first place (i.e. they are cheap). So those people do not result in lost sales.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
  4. I repudiated copyright, and recommend others do it by dada21 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've produced a few bands' records, and asked them to repudiate copyright on their tracks. 2 of them have, and they've skyrocketed the amount of fans that come to shows (in the thousands, on their last tour), and the amount of personalized merchandise they sell. Anything easily duplicated is called "advertising" or "marketing." You don't charge others to receive a show flyer (which could take a few hours to design, plus hours to print and many hours to distribute), so why charge for music?

    I repudiated copyright on all my writings over a decade ago. My blogs let others take the content I created, and republish it as their own if they want. The two e-books I've written also are freely distributed, with a request for $20 in the final chapter if the books help them.

    My business newsletter used to cost over $1000 per year, but now it is free, and I tell others to photocopy it or email the PDF out to others. It generates traffic for my websites, and it also builds reputation to my expanding customer base.

    I see no reason for copyright any longer. For items that are costlier to create (TV shows, movies), product placement is a fine way to profit from the distribution of the product. Subscriptions also can work, just like a chapter-by-chapter written blook that continues as people fund the author's writing.

    Those who hold onto the statist idea of intellectual property will be left behind. They'll find their market swamped by amateurs with the same amount of talent, and with more drive to distribute their creations as artists always have.

    I like this idea, and I recommend others consider going that route when they create content that is easily duplicated. To support it, there are always ways to create value added items (t-shirts, in-person signings or shows, etc).

  5. Free != Piracy by Wiarumas · · Score: 5, Funny

    If he is such a strong believer in piracy, why is he allowing users to download it for free? Shouldn't he force them to pay for a DRM version while he secretly leaks a free torrent on the side? Now THAT would be hardcore.

    --
    I will bend like a reed in the wind.
  6. Re:And the price of everything goes up... by TheWoozle · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You seem to be confusing "produce art" with "make a living". That's a common fallacy. Artists have never been guaranteed a living solely on the basis of the art they produced. Many famous painters, composers, etc. have died as paupers even when they were famous in their own time.

    For what it's worth, in a capitalist system nobody else is guaranteed a living for what they do either. You might be the world's best Parcheesi player but I doubt you could make a living doing just that.

    --
    Insisting on "correct" English is like saying that there is only one, definitive recipe for chili.
  7. Re:I repudiated copyright, and recommend others do by PylonHead · · Score: 4, Funny

    For items that are costlier to create (TV shows, movies), product placement is a fine way to profit from the distribution of the product.

    "Mommy.. why is Gandolf drinking a coke?"

    "Never mind, dear."

    --
    # (/.);;
    - : float -> float -> float =
  8. Re:I repudiated copyright, and recommend others do by ari_j · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The wisdom in this probably depends on which one or more of the following are your "product":
    1. Recordings of your music
    2. Merchandise with your logo on it
    3. Attendance at your live performances
    4. Promotion of other products (for instance, Miley Cyrus's music is mostly about getting you to watch her on TV and buy her lunch boxes)

    For a music act whose real product is #3, giving away #1 counts as advertising. For an act whose real product is #1, giving it away, including giving up copyright protection of it, is bad management. It really does depend on your product and the market for it. That said, I wish more music acts considered live music to be their product and everything else to be promotion of the same.

  9. Re:I repudiated copyright, and recommend others do by Microlith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I see you're falling into the trench of "I have it figured out for $medium, therefore copyright is moot." Unfortunately, not everything falls under those banners.

    For items that are costlier to create (TV shows, movies), product placement is a fine way to profit from the distribution of the product.

    And what about movies or TV shows where such product placement would be horribly out of place? A medieval movie with GM/GE/Pepsi placements? Hell even my favorite hobby, anime, was getting into it with Code Geass, which was packed FULL of Pizza Hut ads which were distracting and ended up being the butt of jokes there were so many.

    Subscriptions also can work, just like a chapter-by-chapter written blook that continues as people fund the author's writing.

    I recall Stephen King trying this and giving up.

    Those who hold onto the statist idea of intellectual property will be left behind.

    Or they'll give up, when they find that they can't recoup the costs of production, much less make a profit.

    They'll find their market swamped by amateurs with the same amount of talent, and with more drive to distribute their creations as artists always have.

    You can't eat drive and talent (well you can, but it's considered anti-social...) I don't see people making entire movies and TV series that they just toss up on the internet unless they've got some greater source of funding to ensure they won't go broke in the process.

    To support it, there are always ways to create value added items (t-shirts, in-person signings or shows, etc).

    Which is pointless, since if you repudiate the copyright on your works (ALL of your works) then someone else might as well hang at your shows and sell knockoffs of what you're selling. And signings have limited effectiveness beyond single authors/bands, I'd like to see how you would fund the creation of an entire TV series with that.

    Copyright is a very effective tool to allow for the creation of easily duplicated works without sticking it to the creators and essentially punishing them for making the investment. It needs to be reworked and it needs respect. However, the internet audience is extremely insular, rude, and just as selfish and greedy as the MPAA/RIAA (and member companies) when it comes to these things.

  10. it could still be piracy by commodoresloat · · Score: 5, Funny

    if you make him walk the plank after you read it.

    1. Re:it could still be piracy by Jaggo · · Score: 5, Funny

      if you make him walk the plank after you read it.

      Omfg I clicked overrated rather than funny.. I'm so sorry.. (Posting to undo moderation .. ha!)

    2. Re:it could still be piracy by Architect_sasyr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This gets my vote as post of the year. I do not believe I've ever seen anyone. Ever. be polite on slashdot.

      Carry on.

      --
      Me failed English...
      FreeBSD over Linux. If my comments seem odd, this may explain...
  11. Couldn't download it, must pirate it now! by socz · · Score: 5, Funny

    So I tried to download the book from the website right, it has an initial value of $5.00 but you can set the price to whatever you want. I set it to $0.00 as I like to "try before I buy." But unfortunately, the "free download" amount has reached it's limit for the day and I was told to try again the following day.

    So, for those of you wondering how you can pirate a free book... if I get it in a torrent, well there you go.

    But on the other hand, some people like myself can't escape the pirate label, since my great grandfather was in fact a pirate. It's like like the geico commercials, "so easy a cave man can do it."

    :P

    --
    My abilities are only limited by my imagination
  12. Re:I repudiated copyright, and recommend others do by Microlith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And the Red Hot Chili Peppers shouldn't give their music away for free either

    That's not related at all to Stephen King's attempt. He tried doing the suggested pay-by-chapter method where readers could optionally pay if they liked it, and it ended up being a waste of his time. I don't know if he bothered to wrap the novel up and publish it the regular way or just gave up on it.

    And I never said they shouldn't give their music away for free, that's entirely -their- call. My issue is with the OPs suggestion that they repudiate their copyright, which is needless self-punishment that opens the door for someone else to make use of it without ever acknowledging the source (thus defeating the point of said "promotion" entirely.)

    For people who are already extremely successful in the traditional methods, they're not going to see the same amount of money using this new technique.

    On the contrary, they are the only ones who will likely see any sort of success from it as the hard part, promotion, is already paid for. Everyone knows who Radiohead is, so people flocked in server crushing numbers to their website for their new album. However for new artists like the one you linked, it'll give him goodwill among small circles but it doesn't have nearly the punch as getting on the radio (another jar of worms) or your music on some movie soundtrack (which is what the giant labels do.)

    And again, releasing one's music has nothing to do with OPs suggestion of releasing without copyright. Said movie studio will just have some famous name cover your song and leave you out to dry.

  13. Re:Anti-Piracy license!! by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 4, Funny

    1994 to the rescue!!

    "If you don't send this book to two of your friends and eleven of your enemies, you will be eaten by the Open Source Version of a Grue".

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  14. Re:Screw the pirates by gilgongo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In college the biggest pirates I knew were the guys who had enough money to buy most of what they got illegally.

    They may have been *able* to pay, but how do you know they *would* have paid? This is the thing - you can't prove that a download is a lost sale any more than you can prove all the people that take free newspapers handed out at the station in the morning are depriving the broadsheets of sales. There simply isn't a 1-to-1 substitution going on. If it's there for free, most people will take it. But if it wasn't for free a great many would never bother to pay in the first place because it's not as if music (or news) is essential.

    If the music and movie industries are so bad, stop downloading their shit. Ignore them, make them irrelevant. I swear, it's like a bunch of rich kids crying about exploitation, while they shop at the Gap and A&F.

    Er, by your own logic, I think they ARE ignoring the music and movie industries. They are instead paying attention to the artists. Can you see the difference?

    --
    "And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
  15. Article summary by frieko · · Score: 4, Funny

    1. Steal doubloons
    2. ???
    3. Profit!

  16. emerging black markets and working business models by drDugan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Black markets emerge for commodity goods when there are significant discrepancies between marginal costs and market price. This is exactly the case for digital entertainment media, where technology has eliminated the ability of major media producers to (technically) control the means of distribution of their product, and the marginal cost of distribution is orders of magnitude less than the price to legally buy the good. The development of the black market / piracy is expected in this case.

    But - there is a middle ground. There is not just "selling media" vs. "pirating media"...

    We have built LegalTorrents to get around the "dilemma" we have a working business model that both incorporates emerging technology and ALSO provides financial supports to Content Creators. The answer is simple: give away what you can't control, and provide value when customers choose to pay.

    All the media we host can be downloaded without paying for it, but Content Creators can ask for Sponsorship - voluntary payments. Why would a user pay for media they can get with out paying for it? The answer is give them more: Give them more. Give public credit and community props for those users who pay for the media they love. Give them access to the Content Creators. Give them extra material not easily found online. Give them early access to concerts, private events, etc. Enable the Content Creator to build up a community around their work that is available for those users who pay to support it.

  17. Re:I repudiated copyright, and recommend others do by Rary · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...we're not going to have time for many live performances, while recording can even be done long distance.

    I'm not trying to be snarky here, and I'm also a musician who has played in a few bands and even recorded a few albums, but here's the thing: if you're not willing or able to put in the time to gig, maybe you don't deserve to make money at it.

    You see, too many people think that just because they created something, they deserve to be paid for it. That's simply not true. Being in a band should be a job, not just something you do for a few weeks or months and then expect to sit back and let the royalty money flow in for the rest of your life.

    You have every right to try to make money off your music. However, if it doesn't work, then too bad. Nobody owes you just because you decided to record an album.

    --

    "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

  18. Re:Anti-Piracy license!! by rugatero · · Score: 4, Funny

    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a GNU?

    --
    This comment is for entertainment purposes only. Any similarity to real insight or information is purely coincidental.
  19. Re:I repudiated copyright, and recommend others do by guyminuslife · · Score: 5, Funny

    And cinematic gems like this one:

    Elrond: The ring must be destroyed. It must be cast into the fires of Mordor whence it was forged! The path will be long and treacherous, but with the aid of Google Maps, you may find your way.
    Aragorn: We will need supplies for our journey. Doritos, to replenish our strength. Adidas, to outrun the Nazgul. Skittles, that we may taste the rainbow of victory. A Honda, to travel long distances with above-average fuel efficiency.
    Elrond: And these you shall receive.

    --
    I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
  20. O'Reilly does this sucessfully by davecb · · Score: 4, Informative

    The O'Reilly book, "Using Samba" was published using a free license, prohibiting only commercial large-scale printing for profit.

    The book was then shipped with Samba, as the Samba Team's official reference, and people started reading it online, printing off small chunks and using it.

    When they wanted a complete copy to mark up or to read in the bathtub, they went to O'Reilly and bought the nice printed copy on thin paper that you could actually carry in one hand (;-))

    Net result: it jumped to the top of Samba book sales, and was very profitable for O'Reilly.

    And all because my editor (Andy Oram) was smart enough to realize that he could try an experiment in new media with a little help from the Samba Team

    --dave

    --
    davecb@spamcop.net
  21. Re:I repudiated copyright, and recommend others do by Jherek+Carnelian · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Subscriptions also can work, just like a chapter-by-chapter written blook that continues as people fund the author's writing.

    I recall Stephen King trying this and giving up.

    King's 'experiment' should be a lesson in how NOT to sell subscriptions.
    He wanted people to pay for each chapter AFTER it was released, not before.
    That was so stupid that it makes me wonder if his intent (or whomever proposed it to him) was to deliberately fail.

    A good subscription based system will give away a few chapters/episodes/songs and then start requiring a minimum amount of money in the bank before the next chapter/episode/song is released because such systems are all forms of the 'ransom' business model - no kidnapper would be stupid enough to return the kid and then demand a ransom, but that's the equivalent of how King ran his experiment.

    The 'ransom' model actually has a lot of benefits all around - it reduces the risk of losing money to nearly zero since the money is in the bank before production work even has to get started. For consumers, it takes the middle-man, the guy who treats all content as just another product to be packaged up and resold, out of the middle. It allows people to much more accurately vote with their dollar for what productions they want to see get made.