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TWiki.net Kicks Out All TWiki Contributors
David Gerard noted an interesting story going down with a relatively minor project that has interesting implications for any Open Source project. He writes "Ten years ago, Peter Thoeny started the TWiki wiki engine. It attracted many contributors at twiki.org. About a year ago, Thoeny founded the startup twiki.net. On 27th October, twiki.net locked all the other contributors out of twiki.org in an event Thoeny called 'the twiki.org relaunch.' Here's the IRC meeting log. All the other core developers have now moved to a new project, NextWiki. Is it a sensible move for a venture capital firm that depends on a healthy Open Source community to lock it out?"
Despite clear evidence that Safari does auth just fine, Twiki wouldn't let any of our Safari users view pages without presenting them with TWO auth requests, and the developers blamed Apple and refused to release a fix into code.
A "reset my password" form would (are you ready?) email the wiki maintainer with a request to reset that user's password.
While it's fast and has a simple file-based structure, it's also one of the worst web apps I've ever seen.
Please help metamoderate.
After RTFA it appears that Sun donated a few servers to host twiki.. Will they be taking them back now that the arrangement has changed (or will the venture folks end up paying for them)?
Either way, pretty stupid way of doing things, worse than XFree86 even, especially for a GPL project...
Another strategy is to never let the "community" in. Look at Alfresco. They get lots of press and kudos for being open source, but are very protective of their code and don't let contributors in. But they keep the "community" gathered outside their gates because they've never done anything to alienate them. They just started out as somewhat hostile and will never get flak for staying that way.
They only other similarly managed project that pops to mind for me right now is Liferay.
Sorry, last post ate the nicks. Try again:
.nl :) :) ;) :) :)
--- Log opened Mon Oct 27 17:55:35 2008
17:55 -!- gmc [n=gmc@freenode/sponsor/gmc] has joined #twiki_release
17:55 -!- Irssi: #twiki_release: Total of 7 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 7 normal]
17:55 -!- Irssi: Join to #twiki_release was synced in 0 secs
19:02 -!- CDot1 [n=crawford@crawfordcurrie.plus.com] has joined #twiki_release
19:03 -!- CDot1 changed the topic of #twiki_release to: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/GeorgetownReleaseMeeting2008x10x27
19:34 -!- FranzJosefGigler [n=chatzill@chello084115142036.6.graz.surfer.at] has joined #twiki_release
19:45 -!- FranzJosefGigler [n=chatzill@chello084115142036.6.graz.surfer.at] has left #twiki_release []
19:45 -!- EugenMayer [n=EugenMay@dslb-092-074-254-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #twiki_release
19:45 < EugenMayer> Hello
19:46 < EugenMayer> CDot1: are you arround?
19:48 < OliverKrueger> What time is it in London?
19:49 < gmc> 19:42 i guess
19:49 < gmc> its 20:42 in
19:49 < OliverKrueger> so it starts in 10min?
19:49 < gmc> think so yes.. but we just had wintertime.. so it might all be a mess.. lets check the world clock
19:49 < gmc> i believe cdot is having dinner atm btw
19:50 < OliverKrueger> daylight saving just changed here, too. Thats why Im asking.
19:51 < gmc> ah.. ntpd was not running.. it's 8:51 here
19:52 < OliverKrueger> 7 mins,... gone forever...
19:52 < gmc> 19:51 in london indeed, according to the/a world clock
19:52 -!- TomBarton [n=TomBarto@63.146.69.17] has joined #twiki_release
19:54 < EugenMayer> Hi Tom
19:55 < EugenMayer> Hi Marcus
19:55 < OliverKrueger> Hi Tom.
19:55 < TomBarton> Hello
19:57 < EugenMayer> So the meating starts in some minutes or am i wrong?
19:58 < gmc> you're not wrong, unless i am too
19:58 -!- Lavr_ [n=donotlik@cpe.atm2-0-103309.0x3ef3d076.albnxx13.customer.tele.dk] has joined #twiki_release
19:58 < EugenMayer> i used the "meating" word again
19:58 -!- SopanShewale [n=chatzill@123.252.224.74] has joined #twiki_release
19:59 < gmc>
19:59 < PeterThoeny_> hi andre, crawford, eugen, koen, kenneth, oliver, sopan, sven, tom, markus
19:59 < EugenMayer> i mean, whats wrong? it sounds the same
19:59 < EugenMayer> Hi Peter
19:59 < OliverKrueger> Hi Peter.
19:59 < PeterThoeny_> who is actually at the keyboard?
19:59 < Lavr_> Kenneth is
19:59 * gmc <==
19:59 < OliverKrueger> Markus is set to "away".
20:00 < OliverKrueger> so as CDot
20:00 < gmc> i'll be mostly in lurking mode though, i've caught a bug again
20:01 < OliverKrueger> Im busy with some kinosearch issues, too. Please shout, if you want me to comment on something.
20:01 -!- will_t1 [n=wii_t1@63.146.69.17] has joined #twiki_release
20:01 < PeterThoeny_> hi will
20:02 < PeterThoeny_> who will be facilitating? who will be taking notes?
20:03 < PeterThoeny_> proposed agenda items are posted at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/GeorgetownReleaseMeeting2008x10x27
20:03 < PeterThoeny_> # 1. Review Urgent Bugs - for TWiki 4.2.4
20:03 < PeterThoeny_> # 2. Feature requests for Georgetown Release
20:03 < PeterThoeny_> i would like to start with a new agenda item
20:03 < PeterThoeny_> ---++ Relaunch TWiki.org Project
20:04 < PeterThoeny_> http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/RelaunchTWikiOrgProject
20:04 < PeterThoeny_> please review, i also sent this content to twiki-dev and twiki-announce
20:05 < OliverKrueger> Did you change the default skin?
20:05 < PeterThoeny_> yes
20:05 < PeterThoeny_> that is one of the changes
20:05 < EugenMayer> looks a lot better. Not perfect, but years be
[FUCK BETA]
Well I don't know of any open source developers who are hungry or live in basements. In fact they are VERY well paid; they work on their open source projects as part of their job (sponsored by their employer) or in their spare time (hobby,cash on the side). As for not making money, it's only when you look at it from a TRADITIONAL model. Every developer can make money if they want once they become a contributor to a project. They can write a book on the project, they can expend the project, they can start a support company for the project, they can do training or installing of the project, etc etc.
This is why we don't live in basements and are successful. We see more than one answer and more than one way to make money. Tfrue entrepeneurs realize this and don't just sit on their ass and whine about open source tealing their glory; they realize that open source is the new market and adapt to the changing market.
Perhaps you will realize this when you come out of your parents basement.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
I work on open source software and get paid. So there!
Actually we are looking for a really experienced HTML / CSS programmer/designer preferably with a background Python and Django. Some PHP experience is of curse useful. Provable work on open source code is a large merit. If you are based in Europe is better than any other continent for us. If you are based in Stockholm or Delft you can probably hopp over for an interview. :)
Akvo.org - the open source for water and sanitation
Isn't the whole point of free software to limit the impact of this kind of decision? Part of the maximization of freedom is the freedom to stop working with other developers, both the freedom to fork, and the freedom to force others to fork.
If the core developers have the source code, and rights to that source code we are talking about, potentially, three things of value: (1) the project name and (2) access to the source code server and by extension (3) access to the source archives. Of these, the only serious blow is loss of access to the archives.
If the person who organizes a project decides to kick everyone else out, that's his right, so long as he honors any agreements made with the other contributors, such as honoring terms for files they have contributed. Things get most tricky when it comes to patches that have been submitted, but the honorable thing is clear: make the source available for every binary version ever distributed.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
...or perhaps less bad time, is if you've written so much of the source you can actually rip out any outside contribution, change the license and go down a different road. If you did then it's your project anyway, and nobody promised you'd keep releasing code forever. This on the other hand, sounds like suicide:
20:37 PeterThoeny_, TomBarton: how will you handle our code when we go away? Will it still be there?
20:38 TomBarton of course! we will continue to fully comply with the GPL etc.
So... this will continue to be a GPL project, which means the new community will be free to take any of the VCs improvements and they'll be fighting a GPL project that has most of the previous developers on board? I think that VC might as well flush those money down a toilet or give them to me, either would be a better use of them.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Is it just me or does anyone else remember Buck Rogers from the 70's? The robot character was Twiki... I wonder if that show got a trademark on 'TWIKI' and if so, what would happen to the TWIKI.NET trademark?
Panic now, beat the rush!
If the investors felt any need to get help from the community, they wouldn't have locked the community out.
My experience with VCs has seen them:
Their first MO seems to be to rebuild the company from the ground up with "their people." This can avoid lots of personality conflicts based on "new guys vs old guys," I think /. can supply the counterpoint argument here.
Small wonder that their conversion to profit rate is 5%.
considering that among real Wikis, TWiki is crap?
TWiki's business model revolves around wowing lazy, barely-competent middle managers who will never really use the thing and foisting it on hapless employees while looking tech-savvy to upper management.
AltTwikiDieDieDie.
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.