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Game Makers Accusing Innocent People of Piracy In the UK

eldavojohn writes "It's a topic that a lot of game makers like Atari don't want the public hearing: game makers wrongfully accusing clearly innocent people of piracy. From the article, 'According to Michael Coyle, an intellectual property solicitor with law firm Lawdit, more and more people are being wrongly identified as file-sharers. He is pursuing 70 cases of people who claim to be wrongly accused of piracy and has spoken to hundreds of others, he told the BBC.' If only a few are coming forward after receiving extortion letters ('Pay £500 OR ELSE!'), what's the actual number of those out there being wrongfully accused?"

45 of 190 comments (clear)

  1. Lawyers smelt money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Lawyers figured out this is a way to print money. Why am I not surprised?

    Its cheaper to pay them off than hire a lawyer and defend yourself. Many have no other choice.

    Send out letters, receive money. Such a deal. Par for the course for for lawyers.

    1. Re:Lawyers smelt money. by Kokuyo · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's called upping the efficiency... of course they'd earn more if people hired them to defend them in court, but that would be actual WORK.

      I'm just surprised they haven't switched to emails with Paypal links in them.

    2. Re:Lawyers smelt money. by sc4ry4nt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I work for a law firm and I assure you this stuff is small fry for lawyers - the big money is in other fields of litigation, not sueing individuals for file sharing. It's the government and it's affiliated agencies that are at fault, as always they are persuing the filesharing community to try to stop and prevent further illegal filesharing. As always they have failed time and time again to provide filesharers with a legal and cost effective solution. Sueing the average Joe is never going to work in the long term, they'll catch a few major players and maybe make the example of the odd teenager to show that "no-one's" safe from the big bad wolf and then they will push it underground. The technology will get smarter as will filesharers and the Government will once again be behind in the fight.

    3. Re:Lawyers smelt money. by Alain+Williams · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I work for a law firm and I assure you this stuff is small fry for lawyers

      Yes a one off would be small fry, but by the hundred or thousand it is good easy money. Get a senior partner to write a sufficiently blood curdling letter and then a junior legal secretary cut and pastes in the case by case name, address, etc. If there is any correspondence this is paid for by either the ''infringing'' punter or by the game maker.

      Whichever way you look at it the legal parasites make money.

    4. Re:Lawyers smelt money. by sc4ry4nt · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Cut and paste!? They're far more efficient than that - time is money (literally) in a law firm, they have speadsheets and mail merges for that! They'll even charge you for the printing! ;)

    5. Re:Lawyers smelt money. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The parent is correct, just do the maths:

      Demand £500 per letter.
      1 letter costs 50p to print, put in envelope and post.

      Thus, if more than 1 in 1000 people pays up, profit.

      I'm surprised con artists are not already doing this from home, instead of the usual "you may already have won" rubbish.

      The basic problem is that there is almost no cost involved in accusing someone of a civil offence and demanding payment on threat of legal action. If such letters carried a legal requirement to pay the recipient £50 if legal action was not followed up, it would put a swift end to the practice.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Lawyers smelt money. by Alain+Williams · · Score: 4, Funny

      My only surprise is that they haven't subcontracted it to lawyers in Nigeria ...

    7. Re:Lawyers smelt money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because paying $500 is much, much cheaper than getting a lawyer and going to court?

      The problem is that defending yourself costs money, wether you are innocent or guilty. This is a flaw of the legal system.

    8. Re:Lawyers smelt money. by LingNoi · · Score: 2, Informative

      If there's one thing that the UK is good for it's following the law to the letter, crossing all t's and dotting all i's.

    9. Re:Lawyers smelt money. by Sobrique · · Score: 3, Funny

      Brb. Drafting form 'copyright infringement' letter.

  2. The UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Proudly trying to match or outdo the US in hostility towards own citizens, since 2001.

    1. Re:The UK by Kokuyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I am truly no fan of the US' politics and haven't been for, err, about eight years, but in my opinion, the UK has let the US cough on their dust, they're so far ahead in this.

      Seriously, they just need a curfew and they'll be 95% done with getting to what we've seen in V for Vendetta. At this very moment, I'm actually less inhibited against traveling to the US than I am against traveling to the UK.

    2. Re:The UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My town, and most others in California, has a curfew for minors, 10:00pm. I've been hassled before walking around passed midnight. They let me move along when they realize I'm not some teenager though.

    3. Re:The UK by Goldberg's+Pants · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Crazy isn't it. It's like they've looked at the RIAA, seen the public attitude toward them and said "Yes! We want a slice of that animosity and hatred!"

      Stuff like this is why I've largely stopped buying anything from mainstream publishers. I refuse to enable their greed and avarice anymore.

      Support the independent game developers!

    4. Re:The UK by Kokuyo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As disgusting as I find that (and saying that as someone who is regularly disturbed at night be drunk teenagers), it still doesn't equal a nationwide curfew for everyone.

      A curfew for kids is actually taking the parents rights away to decide whether their kids are mature enough to be out past 10 pm. So it does go in a similar direction. Still, it's a far cry from a curfew for all adults.

    5. Re:The UK by roguetrick · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most places have a curfew in the code for minors that is selectively enforced(if the kid looks like hes up to trouble). We have one in Frederick MD and most people don't know about it.

      --
      -The world would be a better place if everyone had a hoverboard
    6. Re:The UK by LaskoVortex · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why should all minors suffer just because some are idiots? If some are doing something illegal, you can give them a selective curfew, if not, then they should be allowed to go out whenever they wish.

      You know you are getting old when your instinct is to argue with that. And then I remember how much fun I had as a highschooler after midnight and then I side with the kids--and then I *really* think about how much fun I had as a kid after midnight and then I realize that there is no way they need to be out that late.

      --
      Just callin' it like I see it.
    7. Re:The UK by Kokuyo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But curfew is to put the cart before the donkey. If your problem is that kids are out doing crazy stuff because their parents are not able to handle the kids the way they need to, then you need to either give them the means to change that situation (e.g. chance the economy in such a way that they have both the time and resources to parent their kids) or make sure they just don't have kids.

      I don't understand when this belief manifested that anyone was entitled to ruining a child's life.

    8. Re:The UK by Kokuyo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is also no way that I need to decide which doctor I want to see... beside me liking having a choice.

      There is also no way that I need to decide what clothes I want to wear. Someone else could do it for me and I still wouldn't suffer cold or make a fool of myself by walking around in the nude.

      The fact that someone LIKES to do something should be enough of a point not have a discussion about who needs to do what. As long as a person, no matter the age, does not influence someone else's life overly negatively, they should be allowed to do whatever they please.

      Since we are talking about kids that don't have the same kind of responsibility and rights as adults do, their guardians should be the ones to set the rules. Not the state.

    9. Re:The UK by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 4, Informative

      I sell CDs in a bricks and mortar store in the UK , and TWO separate extortion agencies charge me over £100 a year each for the privilege of playing music in a shop that is making them money anyway. One licence is to pay tribute the owner of the copyright on the lyrics/composition, the other is to pay tribute the owner of the copyright of the performance. It's a fucking joke, but these assholes have the blessing of the establishment, so i have no choice. I don't for one minute think the people greedily gobbling the hard earned money of my small business are the people who wrote or performed this music.

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
    10. Re:The UK by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The situation with regard to music licensing is insane in the UK. The pub near my mother got fined about a year ago because they had the cheapest kind of live music license, which only allowed solo or duet performers. One evening, there was someone in the audience who knew the performers and was invited to join in for a few songs. When the pictures hit the press, someone from the council saw them, checked the license allowed it, and fined them.

      A friend from my salsa class recently opened a cafe and wants to have dance evenings occasionally. She can't yet though, because the total for all of the licenses she needs (apparently you need a license to let people dance in your cafe - WTF?) comes to around £3000 and she's unlikely to make that much extra profit from them. Some of the license money goes to the copyright cartels, some to the councils. Unfortunately no one is standing for council election on a platform of encouraging small businesses by reducing license costs, yet people wonder why the city centre is gradually losing all of the small businesses to massive chains.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    11. Re:The UK by ultranova · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As disgusting as I find that (and saying that as someone who is regularly disturbed at night be drunk teenagers), it still doesn't equal a nationwide curfew for everyone.

      First, it's for teenagers. Then it's for sex offenders. Then it's for convicted felons. Then you need to carry your identification papers with you at night to prove you're not one of them. Then being seen far from your house at night is grounds for arrest due to reasonable suspicion that you're up to no good. Then far means anywhere outside your front door.

      Sometimes, the slope really is slippery.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    12. Re:The UK by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm a member of the Federation of Small Businesses, and there have been rumblings going in the direction of allowing "micro-businesses" (less than 10 employees or some such figure) relief or exemption from these extortions.

      If I weren't so busy I'd be rather active in this area as it is massively obstructive and unnecessary

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
    13. Re:The UK by Zerth · · Score: 4, Funny

      Duh, teenagers are sex offenders by default!

      Pedophilia, underage sexual abuse, child porn. And that's before they get out of bed in the morning!

    14. Re:The UK by xaxa · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is also no way that I need to decide which doctor I want to see... beside me liking having a choice.

      In case you are under the impression that you can only see your 'assigned' doctor in the UK, this is not the case. You can ask to see another doctor when you book an appointment (either a specific doctor, or any male/female doctor). You don't need to give a reason.

      Since we are talking about kids that don't have the same kind of responsibility and rights as adults do, their guardians should be the ones to set the rules. Not the state.

      A agree entirely, and I'm amazed that California of all places has a curfew for teenagers. The nearest we have to that in the UK is an ASBO (anti-social behaviour order), which forbids individual petty criminals from certain acts -- for instance, banning them from a public place they vandalised, or imposing a curfew. You need to be arrested, taken to court and found guilty to get one though. It's meant to be better than sending people to prison etc.

    15. Re:The UK by iainl · · Score: 5, Funny

      You'd be amazed how many 14-year-old boys find underage girls attractive.

      --
      "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
  3. Nothing new by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They have been accusing innocent people of copyright infringement for years. Although this was limited to just their customers and potential customers. Of course when sales drop you have to expand your target audience.

    1. Re:Nothing new by Goldberg's+Pants · · Score: 5, Interesting

      But... They include copy protection on their games, and continue to make it more and more aggressive.

      How is this software piracy of which they speak even possible? I mean they wouldn't include the protection and ruin gaming for their legitimate customers if it didn't work... Would they?

      *quietly waits for the sarcasm tag to be added to the html standard*

      What a racket the copy protection business is. What other industry could thrive so much on failure?

    2. Re:Nothing new by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "...more and more people are being wrongly identified as file-sharers..."

      Copyright infringement is not theft, is not "piracy", and file-sharing is not automatically copyright infringement

      Were they pirates - no
      Were they stealing - no
      were they infringing copyright - no
      were they sharing files - no
      were they using P2P technology (yes it is built into the game)

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    3. Re:Nothing new by Jamu · · Score: 2, Informative

      In the UK, it's not normally a crime either. IANAL but if a law firm like Davenport Lyons has been appointed by Atari then it's not because the copyright infringement was illegal. It's because Atari disagrees with it. Only the Crown Prosecution Service can prosecute anyone. The BBC story is just shovelling misinformation from the media industry.

      --
      Who ordered that?
    4. Re:Nothing new by iminplaya · · Score: 5, Funny

      What other industry could thrive so much on failure?

      Weather forecasting

      --
      What?
    5. Re:Nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You certainly aren't a lawyer. "Only the CPS can prosecute anyone"? WTF? That's the most retarded statement I've ever heard in my life. The CPS prosecutes on behalf of the state. Anyone else can privately prosecute. You can also be sued. Back to IANAL 101 for you.

      -10 points for accusing the BBC of "misinformation" when you're talking total shit yourself and the BBC are accurate. And -5 for everyone who modded you up.

    6. Re:Nothing new by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Copyright infringement is generally not a crime. It is a civil matter, in other words between the copyright holder (Atari) and the alleged infringer. Atari can sue for damages as outlined in the law, but it's not a criminal matter so there will be no criminal record or jail. The police will not investigate or prosecute it either.

      The exception is large scale infringement for commercial gain. That can go down as far as the guy selling pirate DVDs at a car boot sale, but not someone just using P2P.

      So far, there has not been a single case where someone has contested downloading or upload a file on the internet via P2P that has gone to court to be tested. It seems likely, however, that the wifi defence would work, as would asking the accuser to prove your modem had not been cloned. In a civil case they could not get access to your PC or HDD.

      This post is particularly interesting:

      http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34651729-post238.html

      In other words, all a pirate needs to do is get a cloned modem off eBay and the authorities can't touch them.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  4. When did content makers get this stupid by syousef · · Score: 3, Funny

    Shared methodology of most content makers lately:

    Old plan: Compete and make a better game. Get people to part with their money on the basis that your content is best. Convince them your game will improve their life.

    New plan: Produce garbage no one wants. Restrict it so much it's unusuable. Treat your customers like criminals when they don't buy. Sue people almost indiscriminately (on the flimsiest evidence) to make up for short fall.

    What the fuck happened? It feels like I'm in the twilight zone!

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  5. Err...right... by Loibisch · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And this amount of "70 cases" is relevant how, seeing that of course, the world only consisting of honest citizens, everybody rightfully accused of filesharing copyrighted content, would immediately admit to it?

  6. I'm getting damn sick of this by Psychotria · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I BUY all my games. I even have games that were only installed for an hour or less and are sitting on my shelf. This DRM crap, these accusations, this treating the customer as a criminal is fucking outrageous. I bought Far Cry 2. I could have downloaded it at least a week before it was even released. And, yet, me--the legal customer doing the right thing--has all these stupid DRM restrictions. I can accept that. If worse comes to worse I will get a pirated version of the SAME GAME, because I paid for the damn thing and I will play it on my computer any damn way I fuc*ing feel like. Why am *I* being punished for giving the game companies money? It's one of the most ridiculous situations in the gaming society. My LEGAL copy of Doom 3 I cannot play online 'cause someone (probably using a keygen) has MY serial number. I am sick of it. I am sick of the game companies hiding behind this masquerade. I am sick of being treated like a 2nd class citizen because I do the right thing.

    1. Re:I'm getting damn sick of this by Psychotria · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sorry for replying to my own post, but I seriously annoyed. If a game company EVER rings me up and alludes or accuses me of being a pirate then they can kiss my arse and I will do *everything* I can, in court or whatever, to make them look as bad as possible. I have done nothing wrong and I bet a lot of these other accused people have done nothing wrong. It's not a matter of winning or losing, it's an ETHICAL matter. I am a loyal customer. Some of those accused (I bet) are/were loyal customers. Treating customers as criminals has to stop. No offence to the people involved (it's unfornunate), but I hope that one of them has the balls (and, unfortunately, money) to take these extortionists to court and drag them through the mud. Hang them up for a public flogging. And, then, hopefully this shameful practice of treating paying customers will stop.

    2. Re:I'm getting damn sick of this by ledow · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Stop buying games, then. Not just *buying* them, but playing them too. Or make your purchases much more carefully. I did this years ago and haven't bought a PC game in that time, unless it was a non-DRM thing off a budget label. The only game I play online is Counterstrike, because I have at least four legitimate copies of the original CD version at home, all of which entitle me to a Steam account with that game. I last loaded Steam about a year ago. Someone bought me FarCry for Christmas - I haven't even opened it.

      Instead, I download freeware, use open-source games, buy games (if I buy any at all) that are from smaller developers, budget labels and/or have no DRM in them at all. Even my wife now recognises the Sold Out, etc. budget labels in shops and points them out to me if she sees them. Gaming for me has gone from a hardcore-fanatic industry to where it should have always stayed: casual gamers. A few levels of some platformer, a couple of Flash games, and I'm happy.

      If you think I don't game much, you're wrong. Gaming is a family trait - over the years we've wasted countless hours playing every Mario game ever made (my mum loves them and has completed them all), Tetris, Counterstrike, you name it. We have PC's, consoles and handhelds all over the place. Dad loves his Palm, word games and racing games. Mum loves her various consoles and Mario. My brother is PC-oriented and plays strategy games and FPS. My wife comes from a family that had Sega instead of Nintendo and so much prefers replaying all her old Megadrive games. About once a week, we all get together and have a massive gaming bash and it's not unusual for my Mum to still be up at 3am trying to complete a Mario level. There are computers I've built for them loaded up with emulators for all their old consoles, freeware, and flash games. We even had a CD-i which we kept just for PacMania (which Mum loves). My earliest computing memory is my brother, Dad and I all working together to complete and then map Nonterraqueous for the Spectrum. It took weeks and the largest bit of graph paper you've ever seen in your life. (We did it in the end, and the day after, a magazine published a map in it's cheats section. Grr...)

      What I'm doing now is actually spending a lot more time on emulators of older games that I know I'll enjoy. I carry a GP2X just to replay all my old SNES games. I just replayed Red Alert on PC, because it was released as freeware without DRM, and it was really quite good fun. Syndicate in DOSBox gave me more hours of fun (except that impossibly stupid last mission) than I've ever got from a modern £50 PC game. I have a stack of games that I bought years ago that I just keep replaying (or, in some cases, actually getting around to play for the first time). Carmageddon, Project IGI, Master of Magic, even stupid old Apogee stuff like Commander Keen and Halloween Harry. The first Unreal Tournament, Quake and every one of it's official expansions (which I can even play on the GP2X). They are *all* great games. They are all replayable. None of them demands 10% of my hard disk or some ridiculously overspecced graphics card. I get more use out of XQuest 2 and The Incredible Machine than I do out of anything made for a console in the last few years.

      Eventually all the games that people are raving about now will come out on budget labels and if they *were* actually any good, I'll know by the time they do, snap them up for a bargain, have no troubles with DRM, stupid system requirements, activation, or having to have the latest, greatest hardware to play smoothly, etc.

      I like to play my parent's Wii - it's great fun. We buy about two or three games for it a year between the five of us. But even the (unskippable) cutscenes in Mario Galaxy which I played for the first time this week were so annoying because when I play, I just want to play. I haven't even looked at any other console past the N64 or original Playstation. Every now and again, I'll buy a complete console with controllers, acc

    3. Re:I'm getting damn sick of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Think this comic sums it up nicely: http://xkcd.com/488/

    4. Re:I'm getting damn sick of this by Psychotria · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The real question si not to know if you're right, it is to decide if you are ready to spend 10 years of your short life and risk your marriage and home for that.

      Yes, there is that risk. On the other hand if I try to live under a rock and not stand up for what I believe in, then it'd be a pretty boring life IMO. So, yes, I would risk it because the alternative (depending on your view) is being a prisoner anyway. Life is short, I agree. If you choose to live the "safe" life and you're happy, then great. I choose to defend my beliefs. The "cost" will definately involve losing something. The point is that whatever path you take you will lose something... it's a matter of what you value and what you're willing to lose. Your "loss"/"risk" probably differs from mine (which is OK). The opposite is what you will gain. These have to be balanced based on your personal beliefs.

      You raise a valid argument. Would I be willing to lose my home? Probably not. Would I be willing to risk my home? Yes. As you mentioned, life is short. My assertion is that because life is so short I will stand up for what I believe; because at the end of the day when I am in a nursing home, I can sit back and say that I stood up for what I believe. That is what will make *me* happy. When I die I will do so knowing that I did the best I could and stood by my beliefs. I will not make myself my own prisoner. Your mileage will probably vary.

  7. I'll sue ya! by Wowsers · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm gonna sue because someone else used my IP address of 127.0.0.1 in their anti-piracy logs.

    --
    Take Nobody's Word For It.
  8. Why NOT ? by redelm · · Score: 4, Interesting
    As I understand the UK legal system, there are some important differences: 1) No class actions; 2) No punative damages; 3) No jury awards.

    What, precisely, is the downside for ATARI's troll? Yes, they could have to pay [taxed/controlled] defense legal costs. But the defendant would have to put up all the money first, then try to recover the judge's award included in the verdict.

    Please tell me again, what is the downside? Judges may well fume. But they can do nothing. The letters are not extortion, but an "offer to settle" that might even be excluded from evidence as such!

    The UK legal system mostly works because of self restraint. And poorly when that fails. Sometimes you can find a barrister who doesn't mind egg on his face. Solicters live there.

  9. Re:Headline: Geeks engage in selective outrage by wild_quinine · · Score: 2, Informative

    enormous number of Joe Six-Packs who perceive it as their god-given right to committ theft via Lime Wire

    It's not theft. Period. End of argument, by the way. If you want to call it theft, you are wrong, and the discussions needs to halt right there until you can start using words correctly. And no, that doesn't mean I approve. And no, that doesn't mean it's not wrong. But it's not theft, and we can't have a cogent argument when we're using false, and incidentally biased, terms.

    Are they the companies that voluntarily provide products and services that you can choose to purchase or not

    You need to check in on your definition of voluntary.

  10. Not about piracy, about resale rights by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ironically, the DRM schemes designed to protect against piracy are more and more likely to make honest customers turn to piracy. The whole thing lends credence to the idea that what the game makers REALLY want out of DRM is to remove first sale rights, not combat piracy.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  11. As I get older... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You know you are getting old when your instinct is to argue with that.

    Actually, the older I get, the more strongly I believe in opposing measures like that [the curfew].

    Whether or not any one person enjoys or otherwise benefits from something is not the point, and must never be allowed to become the point. The important thing is that everyone should be free, by default, to do absolutely anything they like. Restrictions should only ever be imposed by law on behaviour that is actually harmful in some way, and any restrictions that are imposed should only ever be proportionate to the harm that would be done.

    This is probably the important principle of any fair justice system, because without it, governments are free to set arbitrary laws for their own political (or worse) purposes. This leads to blanket laws, such as (to pick some common, controversial examples): speed limits and banning mobile phones while driving, instead of prosecuting dangerous or inconsiderate driving; trying to ban whole electronic communications networks, rather than either going after people who abuse those networks to infringe copyright or mandating restrictions on the networks that are reasonable and consistent with prohibiting just the illegal behaviour; or, as in this case, restricting the freedoms of a whole group of people on account of the unacceptable behaviour of a small minority (which is effectively guilt by association).

    In each of those cases, the law probably does do some good, in the sense that it does inhibit harmful behaviour by some people. The problem is the collateral damage: the law also catches people whose behaviour would not have been harmful and punishes them anyway, which is unjust. Of course, it's easier to impose blanket laws, both for enforcement (increasingly mechanically; whatever happened to "man shall not be judged by machine"?) and for scoring political points ("Speed kills! Look, we imposed a new low limit to make the road safer outside your home, so now your kids don't have to stop, look and listen before they cross").

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.