Slashdot Mirror
Poll Finds 23 Percent of Texans Think Obama is Muslim
A University of Texas poll has found that 23 percent of Texans are convinced that Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama is a Muslim. Only 45 percent of the people polled correctly identified Obama as a Protestant Christian. Nationwide, the number of people who believe in the "Secret Muslim Conspiracy" is about the same as those who believe that the moon landing was faked (5-10 percent), which makes the high numbers in Texas unusual.
No, he isn't Muslim. He did not go to a Mosque for the last 20 years.
However, he DID go to a rather interesting "Christian" church the last 20 years, one that Oprah left before Obama even got there because of the "incendiary" sermons (according to wikipedia, which is not known for conservatism). No, he's not Muslim, but his attending a rather radical black theology church with a rather strange pastor combined with other "interesting" seeming Muslim-sympathetic beliefs or actions do seem to point to a non-full disclosure of his beliefs, etc. Even the simple idea that he's just a normal, very faithful Christian is misleading. His careful choice of church for 20 years (and the pastor began this way long before Obama arrived at the church, it wasn't something that happened in the last 6 months, the pastor did not just recently go off his rocker or something like that) is not one that is exactly a mainstream Christian church. I myself am quite a conservative Christian (theologically, but politically as well) and I would consider myself less radical than the Trinity United Church of Christ (wikipedia entry)
Yes, it would be interesting if there was no illegal labor force available. I guess in farm fields some folks think there is no choice but the illegals. In cities there are clearly choices and these people are certainly taking jobs that others would do.
See, we're not talking about "immigrants", we are talking about a work force that is here to get the benefits and send them back to Mexico. Immigrants - people that want to become part of the United States are a benefit to everyone... sort of. But a bunch of locusts that come in, grab as much as they can and take it back with them elsewhere are not needed.
Finally, all it takes is for the jobs to dry up. Arizona took some serious steps and there is still a flood of illegals leaving. Whole schools closing because there aren't enough children in the community any longer. When the jobs dry up, the people will leave all by themselves. We do not need to "send" anyone anywhere.
Woo, wikipedia! How authoritative! You are yet another dumbass libertardian who thinks the free market left to its own devices is somehow going to solve all our problems. And like communists and astrologists, you libertardians cannot point to any actual examples of your retarded ideology actually working on a large scale in the real world. Instead you point to anecdotal evidence and hyperbole, you cash in on anti-tax and anti-government paranoia and cast yourselves as "intellectuals" when in reality you bare absolutely no resemblance.
Well, your dad is right to believe what his eyes tell him to believe. Obama did refuse to put his hand ofer his heart and he did refuse to wear flag lapels when everyone else was doing it. As for the muslim part, you should really set him streight on that.
But back to hating america, Obama probably doesn't hate america but his actions show that he doesn't love it as much as other claim to. People show their patriotism and love of country with actions like putting their hand over their heart to say the pledge or wearing flag lapels and so on. Refusing to do so just means your refusing to show that for whatever reason. If your dad is uncomfortable with the impression this leaves him about Obama, then he is entitled to interpret how he was raised to see those actions. It isn't like the looking at the flag or puting your hand over your heart is a secrete or anything.
I second that, see Bush, George W. as an example.
So you are saying I should vote for someone with a toxic belief system like Catholisism? Also, were Obama muslim which he's not... it would not automatically transform the US into a Sharia law state. Thats a fear beyond irrational.
There are also many Muslims that serve in the U.S. Armed Forces, but I don't see you bitching about them. So it's okay for them to die for this country, but not okay to lead it?
I never said that and I would appreciate it if you would keep your Straw Man out of this.
Now, I don't care if the guy is a frickin' Jew-hovah's Witness Mormontologist that handles snakes in church and practices polygamy -- as long as he's HONEST about it. What's getting under my skin is the niggling feeling that we're being sold a "bill of goods" and when we open the box on 20 Jan. we'll find out that we got a Doberman when what we ordered was a kitten.
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth gets you modded -1 Troll
Well, Actually, you sort of answered your point withing your point. People have been trained that this is the way you show your patriotism and when someone refuses to, others get the idea that they aren't being patriotic. It about the same as forming an idea about how a person drives when they don't stop for stop signs or drive left of center without cause (assuming a US road).
I just checked and it wasn't the Pledge that I know of, it was the national anthem. The pledge could be also an issue, I'm not aware of the specifics and didn't bother checking the differences until you mentioned the law. The law is important because there actually is one, and it specifically states that "all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart;"
I'm not sure if the law is enforceable or if it even has penalties but it is there and Obama claims he is a constitutional lawyer so he should know about it. He didn't make his excuse on the constitutionality of it, he just said that it doesn't matter which a lot of people think it does matter. You dad is obviously one of those people. And like we mentioned before, it is how people were trained to honor the flag and country which means when we see someone who doesn't participate, their patriotism does become a question to us.
Well, no. It was an everybody thing. The lapel flag pin was a statement of solidarity for the 911 victims and support for our country. Hillary, Edwards, Kusinich, and all the presidential contenders along with most if not all of congress was wearing them. It may be that republicans wore them longer then democrats but it wasn't a republican thing. Obama's said in 2007 ""You know, the truth is that right after 9/11, I had a pin. Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for, I think, true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of important to our national security. I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest."". He said in 2008 "I have never said that I don't wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins," during the debate in Pennsylvania.
I personally don't care about the flag pin. It doesn't matter to me other then it says something about Obama's mindset. Obviously, this statement has had an effect on your dad and it will on a lot of others. If someone gave me one and asked me to wear it, I would. If I'm going to a political rally, I will put one on my hat or something. I can let it go but some people can't and that is a valid point. The statement in October of 2007 was made after he refused to wear one and caught heat from it. When you combine his actions with statements from his wife (For the first time in my adult life, I'm proud to be an American), you start to form a picture of who this guy is. For some, it isn't one they like and they are perfectly entitled to that opinion. For me, there are a lot more pressing issue to not like Obama for then these. But if he does win, these will make me question h
That motion is what shows solidarity and commitment to something. Lets put this into perspective that you might understand a little more.
Hopefully, you have had a girlfriend or maybe a wife or perhpaps a boyfriend if you float that way. After years of being together, support your significant other stopped having sex with you and they just didn't put out anymore. They don't act pissed or give an excuse to why, all you know is that you used to get it a lot and now you never get it. Now, what is the first thing that will be going through anyone's mind? Infidelity right? She or they are getting it somewhere else right? Even though that sex between committed couples after a period of time is sometimes just a droned motion that spouses go through to show their significant other that they still love them. Hopefully, your not a stereotypical geek and therefor a virgin and can see whee that is going.
The problem isn't the value of the actions, but what the actions convey to others. This goes further then just the flag or the national anthem too. Lets say you purchased a product that was defective and you wanted to return it under warranty. The store that says "this is a manufacturing defect and you have to take it up with them" compared to a store which takes the item back, replaces it and deals with the manufacturer themselves. It's an insignificant action but it allows you to say something about store's customer service.
Like it or not, your actions say something to other people. Those people have expectations and will form opinions based on their own life experiences and when you do something that makes a statement to them, you either have to address that statement which Obama didn't or you need to accept the opinions people form. Either way, you have to accept that people form opinions over what you call bullshit and they damn well have that right.
Well, no. The administration didn't start the flag lapel thing. That was started by a 911 victims advocacy group. People all across the political isle started wearing them pretty much universally.
And no, it is not jingoism in any way. If you really think that, then you simply haven't been paying attention. The flag lapel started as a means to express solidarity for the victims of 911 and then grew to a symbol of support for our troops in harms way. It has nothing to do with policy itself or any political party itself. You may think the way you do because you saw the administration doing it first or something but that isn't the way it was.
Yawn. I didn't bother reading it all or look at the other aspects of it, I was just looking to show that one is there and people take actions contrary to it and draw conclusions about their patriotism from that.
I'll buy that but as I was saying, the point was that it existed and he would have been aware of it. The comment about not being sure was just to state that I'm not claiming to be an expert on it but I think the sentence justified the lack of importance surrounding my use of the words. In other words, I'm not attempting to say he broke the law and deserves to be punished (although he has broken the law with other laws that don't seem to be enforced).
Nnow your just trying to be stupid. A flag is more the a geographical marker, it is the symbol of a living country or ideal. It always has been since well before the US was ever formed. But as you have noted, you are amazed at how many people believe that compared to your beliefs. In a way, you just admited that people have their own opinions regardless of you agreeing with them.
No, it is the same as the wife beater. We are talking about the impresion someone makes on others. He may very well be other wise qualified but people don't believe through his own actions that he is patriotic enough for them to vote for them.
That's fine and all but we are talking about some people. We are talking about someone asking us to make him the president of the United States of America. It's perfectly fine for the kids with no upbringing down the street to do something different. It's perfectly fine for someone who hates America to do nothing, in a free country, that is their choice. But it is also an essential freedom to pull opinions from observations of someone's behavior and whether you like it or not, people have done that in the case of Obama and found him not worthy. Where is the problem other then you don't like people thinking badly of Obama?
Lol.. It doesn't matter that the congress decreed what is respect or not. Those actions have become tradition and people like you and me either follow those traditions or we don't. When we don't people who think they are important form an opinion of us. For some people, it bothers them, for others, it doesn't, but it is their opinion and they have every right to have one. That right is especially important when the person the opinion is about is asking us to elect them to the highest office in the land.
You can be offended at the law being there all you want. The only reason it was brought up was to show that placing your hand over your heart during the national anthem is no fucking secrete that someone forgot to tell Obama. As IICV already pointed out the law says should, not haves to required to or that any punishment is provided if you don't. It's there, patriotic people generally follow it and the tradition and when someone bucks that tradition, it pulls what that tradition represents into question with that person. People took offense because they believe it isn't a silly tradition and that it's important. Now, don't that take all, free people choosing independent thought and not agreeing.