Colombia Signs Up For OLPC Laptops With Windows

Reader Cowards Anonymous writes with this excerpt from Good Gear Guide: "Colombia will become the second country to use the One Laptop Per Child Project's (OLPC) XO laptops running Microsoft Windows XP in schools after signing an agreement for pilot programs in two towns. Schools in the towns of Quetame and Chia will be outfitted with the small green XO laptops developed by the OLPC. The pilot programs are expected to expand over time."

Comments

Too bad it's WIndows

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad it's Windows; they might have actually had a chance to learn something about computers. Now all they'll learn is that things mysteriously going wrong can be fixed by a reboot for equally mysterious reasons and that applications are this highly polished black box that you're not allowed to examine to determine how they work since that might violate someone's intellectual property. They'll also learn that application crashes are fairly normal, that they don't happen for good reasons that can be permanently fixed but are more like a throwing of the dice so you better save your work frequently. If they're sharp they'll also learn that open standards are bad and should be subverted whenever possible.

Re:Too bad it's WIndows

[shutdown -p now]

Too bad it's Windows; they might have actually had a chance to learn something about computers.

You assume that the purpose of this deal is to have someone "learn something about computers". It might come as a surprise, but for a lot of people (and students), computers are not "the thing to learn about", but just a tool that assists in the process of learning.

Now all they'll learn is that things mysteriously going wrong can be fixed by a reboot for equally mysterious reasons

Oh yes; as opposed to the ritual of rebuilding and installing a new kernel version to fix a non-working piece of hardware that's so very transparent to a layman.

applications are this highly polished black box that you're not allowed to examine to determine how they work since that might violate someone's intellectual property.

You know, Windows doesn't delete F/OSS applications on sight. And there are plenty of them available - you might have heard titles such as "Firefox", or "OpenOffice", or "gcc".

Besides, do you seriously think there is much useful to be derived from inspecting, say, Firefox source code, in school?

They'll also learn that application crashes are fairly normal, that they don't happen for good reasons that can be permanently fixed but are more like a throwing of the dice so you better save your work frequently.

That's so totally unlike Linux apps! I mean, you go to a bugtracker of any major F/OSS project, search for "crash" or "segfault", and not a single open or recently closed ticket is to be found!

If they're sharp they'll also learn that open standards are bad and should be subverted whenever possible.

Absolutely - that patented MS 25th frame technique which replaces your desktop with a huge banner that says "OpenXML good, ODF bad".

Or did you mean that, somehow, a typical MS Office user would even know the difference between "open" and "not so open" standards, much less the subtleties of "subverting" the former?

Or are you afraid that the kids might - o horror! - use OpenXML SDK to parse and generate Word and Excel documents, and find that it is actually surprisingly easy to do so, and the output is perfectly understandable?

hmmm.

[apodyopsis]

FTFA

Installing Microsoft software in OLPC's laptops has been controversial. OLPC started out offering Linux on the devices because the OS costs nothing and organizers believed it made the device run more efficiently. Some open-source software advocates hoped the XO would spread the use of Linux and the open source philosophy to the 5 billion people living without computers in the developing world.

Microsoft hopes to capture these 5 billion people for its future market potential.

..at least they are honest about it. and none of this "offering a better, competative.." rubbish. its plain old "get them when they are young" philosophy....

Re:hmmm.

[Atlantis-Rising]

As opposed to the equally blatantly stated "Spread the use of Linux and the open source philosophy"?

They're both attempting to do the same thing... but apparently, Microsoft has more money to throw at the problem.

Re:hmmm.

[DerekLyons]

The funny part is, it's the OSS advocates referenced in the article who have been pushing "get 'em while they're young" under the guise of "offering a better etc..." as a feature while insisting the same behavior by Microsoft is a bug.

Re:hmmm.

[EvilRyry]

Spreading free and open access to information is a bit nicer goal than getting the kids young so we can rape them with licensing fees when they get older.

Re:hmmm.

[Atlantis-Rising]

Possibly. I'm not necessarily convinced that free and open access to information is necessary... or even useful.

However, IMNSHO, that's not what Open Source is about anyway. Open Source has really never been terribly important for your average person; all of its important freedoms relate to developers. The freedom to sprout wings and fly away is irrelevant to people who have no ability to sprout wings and fly away, and in the same manner, the vast majority of computer users (and this percentage is growing, not shrinking) are not developers. Open Source, arguably, does not strive to protect them or provide open and free access to them.

Microsoft's tactics are primarily profit-driven, of course. But Microsoft is no longer a booming growth organization like it once was; it must shift its goals toward long-term sustainability and medium growth, and this it has tried to do. You'll notice this in the fact that Microsoft's licensing fees are not terribly high. The vast majority of users, in fact, do not pay these fees on anything but an irregular basis, and the fees they do pay, which are rolled into OEM machines, are so low when spread across the time involved that Microsoft's 'raping license fees' work out for your average user somewhere between $20-$30 per year, I would imagine.

Is free cheaper? Certainly! But it's patently obvious that Microsoft hardly rapes their customer base with license fees. This is especially true in developing countries where copyright infringement runs entirely rampant. Huge numbers of people would rather pirate Windows in the developing world than run Linux, and I think that says something about Microsoft's sustainability strategy.

Ultimately, I think Microsoft's attempts here, and in various other places across the globe is merely an attempt by the organization to replace its pirated software with licensed software, by making it clear what benefit partnership with Microsoft brings, including huge rebates and funding sponsorships. The problem is that Linux doesn't bring huge wads of cash with it. The value of open source software is intangible and arguably non-existent to a lot of these people.

Re:hmmm.

[Tubal-Cain]

OSS advocates don't have financial motivation for their suggestion. And I don't see any "under the guise of..."-type posts.

Re:hmmm.

[Informative]

Not quite, because OSS also often runs on windows. You have a choice. M$ wants lock-in. Think schoolyard drug dealer.

Re:hmmm.

[Atlantis-Rising]

Why, as a consumer, can I not buy Windows for a similiar low price, or a low multiple? Why is it in the hundreds of $$$? Why are there over 6 versions of Vista now? Why not just 2?

For much the same reason as large organizations get deep, deep discounts on anything else and individuals don't. Economies of scale.

As for the versioning, it's worth nothing that while there are... six? versions of Windows, Microsoft has not attempted, nor expects, that all of those versions of windows can be bought by all people. For 99% of home users, there are two versions- Home Premium and Ultimate.

For 99% of Business uses, there are three versions- Business, Enterprise, and Ultimate. Enterprise is available solely through Software Assurance, and provides a variety of licensing and support benefits not otherwise available... but again, if you're licensing from Microsoft via SA, you've got people who know which version is best for you.

There are a lot of versions out there, no doubt about it. It's not a good thing. But it's not like Microsoft just dumped six different versions on store shelves and said "Go buy!"

Don't use wikipedia then. I use it about 50 times a day. I just contributed $100 toward it because it's that usefull to me. No static, "closed-soure" encyclopedia comes close for me for 'esoteric' topics.

That was not exactly what I was referring to when I said 'free and open access to information'... information, like any tool, can be used as a weapon. I'm not in favor of wandering down the street handing out fully loaded assault rifles to passers-by, so why should I be in favor of handing out copies of "The Prepatory Manual of Explosives"?

Re:hmmm.

[Atlantis-Rising]

Yes, but the linux option will benefit the kids more...

Perhaps, but you certainly haven't proven such a claim.

Linux gives them a system which is open, allowing those kids who are technically minded to learn about it in depth and provide support to their peers. When they grow up, those kids will be able to sell such services to others, while the non technical kids will be able to buy support services from the others. So you end up with an IT industry that's locally based, rather than having to pay for expensive foreign services and additional software (what seems like pocket change to people in the first world, is a months wages for people in these third world countries).

This is entirely supposition, but more importantly, it's based on a chain of events that's never been shown to actually occur in a lot of the developing world. Places like India, with developed computer-sience industries don't start making their money by selling to theselves. They make their money by doing work for foreign organizations cheaper. The problem is, Linux doesn't pay very well.

And if you train people in the third world sufficiently well, they will be able to provide services to people in the first world, and because the cost of living is so much lower they can live like kings while still undercutting the competition.

Possibly. Providing services like that, however, requires significant infrastructure investment, and in fact, the OLPC people are not, to my knowledge, training anyone at all to do anything. They are merely providing laptops. Suggesting that poor villagers will get into software development and support to support their families is ridiculous, in my opinion.

However, you really ignored my primary point. Linux adds nothing of value. Open Source is not valuable to people in the developing world. Microsoft, however, goes in and throws around buckets of money- both Microsoft's and the Gates Foundation's- and that is valuable.

That's why those places choose Microsoft. Because it's 'better'. There's more value.

Re:hmmm.

[Toll_Free]

I call bullshit.

Accordingly, your theory would say that nobody in IT today would have learned on MS platforms.

I did.

And most people in the industry, outside of *nix and OS/400 types, also did. Or migrated from other machines to PC based hardware when the other machines (Commodores, etc) disappeared.

So saying that open source will breed tech types is complete bullshit. Tech types will figure out how to work on their machines as well as modify them, no matter what the operating system is.

--Toll_Free

Re:failure for Sugar, not for Linux?

[serviscope_minor]

and you get one choice that looks like nothing you've ever seen

Oh, this old, tired line again. When I was at school, sure there was MS and Word, but it was DOS 3.2 and Word 2.something which ran in text mode only. If I remember correctly. So frankly what I had at school was NOTHING like what I have now. The point is, it doesn't matter what you teach kids today, since it will be nothing like what is in the office when they turn 21, even if you teach them MS products, they won't be the MS products of 2020.

Re:...and the slavery begins.

[Anonymous Coward]

How did Microsoft becomes "us"? ...

Agreed. But also remember that the US government allowed that company to get away with its questionable practices. And the government was chosen by the people (isn't that supposed to be a democracy?) so you can't really say people are 0.000% innocent on this.

Nothing is being forced on them. It's the developing country's choice what to deploy.

On the immediate situation you're right.
On the other hand, most (perhaps all?) of the countries in Latin America had their history heavily changed by the U.S. thanks to its Cold War policies.

Things changed for better, for worse? Dunno. I used to be a leftist until my mid 20s, nowadays I'm sceptic of both sides.
The only thing I'm sure is that the governments we have nowadays in Latin America would not exist the way they are, had the U.S. not interfered.

Historical responsability is made of lots of grey tones.

Re:failure for Sugar, not for Linux?

[Informative]

Kids this young should be helped to understand what a computer is in general, and how one interfaces with it. The networking aspect of sugar sounds expecially good for that.

I feel sorry for the kids that will only learn how to be office droids.

Re:gentlemen

[Anonymous Coward]

No need for a conspiracy. Colombia is a very right wing country (at least the ruling elite here are) and Windows is a better fit for keeping control than Linux is.

Re:Even in Colombia, Microsoft is trying to catch

[js_sebastian]

"...totally retarded"? Right. Don't take your "decent education" for granted. Only about half the Colombians go to high school and it may not even be free down there.

I don't take decent education for granted. I just don't think "using *office" (microsoft's or any other version) should be anywhere near a kid's education, at all, except as a tool to write reports essays and stuff (and for that, OLPC-sugar offers abiword). Just like you don't teach them to operate a cash register, or to build walls, just because that's the work they might end up doing. Education (especially early education) is NOT about giving pupils the tools for today's job market. It is about giving them the basic culture/mindset that allows them to become CITIZENS and learn the tools for tomorrow's job market, when they will need them.

And anyhow, by the time these kids will enter the workforce, windows will be on version 15 (we're talking primary school kids!) and anything specific they learn about the system would be totally useless.

Someone who learned how to use Office 95 13 years ago can probably work their way around the latest version of office. And it's smart to target at the education level accessible to all children, which is different for each country.

Yeah, and someone who used lotus notes 15 years ago will also be able to wrap his head around excel, ribbon or no ribbon.

Re:failure for Sugar, not for Linux?

[Cajun Hell]

Did I learn MORE than someone using Win 3.1? No. I learned different stuff. I did learn about PEEKs and POKEs and an oddball OS running on very, very limited hardware.

Actually, you did learn something. You learned about memory-mapped I/O, something that most programmers of higher-level OSes are never exposed to (because they use APIs instead). Later, when you get down in the dirt and have to write a driver or something, your C64 general programming experience has prepared you for something that normally only OS hackers are prepared for.

Oh, and your VIC-20 experience probably warped you toward memory efficiency, in a way that the later machines wouldn't. Or at least that happened to me, and it took a while to unlearn. ;)

F*ck "justice". Let's stick to concrete tools.

[RustinHWright]

Well, waddayaknow? A visitor from the past. 1973, perhaps.

Take off your beret, put down the joint, and join the twenty-first century. Those of us living in the real world have long since figured out that projects like OLPC are among the cheapest, fastest ways per child to, say, increase literacy.

You want clean water and reductions in child mortality? Then you need people who understand basic concepts of biology so that they understand *why* they need to track what is upstream versus down from a latrine.

You want feminism? Then reduce the labor needed to get chores done. Many superior approaches can be learned from the kind of information sharing that networked computers provide. AND they help users organize, which is about as "justice"-oriented a dynamic as anybody rational could ask for.

You want "justice" as such? I love vague terms like that. Is there somewhere I can, say, buy twelve pounds of "justice"? Or is it sold by the box? As *real* revolutionaries have long known (is Mao revolutionary enough for you?) an ignorant populace is an easily controlled populace.
To free "the masses", you maximize the ease and speed and minimize the cost of spreading books, radio, and so on. Ideally, you should do this in a decentralized way where routing is damage-tolerant and reroutes around barriers. A way where readers control what content goes here and how. On the large scale, we call our system for that "the internet". On the small scale, the protocols and hardware of the XO replicate that with great effectiveness and flair.

Devices like these, for example, help spread up to date information on crop prices. This makes it harder for brokers to cheat farmers and helps farmers know what to plant, how to raise it, what blights are around and how to treat them, and when to bring what products to market.

This is what real world revolution looks like. This IS justice. Far more so than anything bullshit powermongers like FARC or Shining Path will ever accomplish. And these aren't "leftovers". These are special purpose machines designed and built (very well, as it happens) for doing exactly this.

You have something useful to contribute, then join right in. If you just want to spout meaningless slogans that insult those doing real work, then bugger off.