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O'Reilly Now Competing With Sun Java Certificates
Joel Aufgang writes "O'Reilly Media's O'Reilly School of Technology in partnership with the University of Illinois has just launched a Java Programming Certificate Series, which looks like it's intended to compete with the Sun Certified Java Programmer (SCJP) certification. According to O'Reilly's press release, this is not an exam-based certification but rather a series of project based instructor-led courses that, if you pass, earns certification backed by the University of Illinois. Also interesting is the use of Eclipse as the preferred learning platform as opposed to Netbeans."
"I took a class." can be even more easily abused than, "I passed a test." for posing false technical capability. Maybe not though. The market is definitely flooded with people using certifications to mean "ability." I hope this mitigates the problem rather than continuing it.
I took one earlier this year. It was primarily good for testing my ability to regurgitate information about the language and APIs. That's it.
If I were an employer, I would give much more credence to someone coming in as an entry level hire or switching from another language if they had something like this. Lab-based, graded courses show that you have at least some practical ability to apply the material.
In hindsight, I agree with a professor of mine who said that a single, solid A in a 400-level CS class is probably worth more than any programming certification starting out. If you want to do this on the cheap, just take a few classes at a community college. That's what I'm doing to get some "official training" to back up the fact that I do know C# well enough to make the switch from Java. One or two audited courses will have the same effect, but cost me less than $300 and I'll only have to do a few homework assignments and exams :)
Java Certification only proves you know how to answer trick questions. It's primarily just shows lines with several operators in it and you have to know which ones take priority.
The correct answer to most of the questions should be "This code is so horrible I would rewrite it to be clearer".
When hiring, I've found Java Certified people to be worse than the norm, in no way does it actually test your ability to program.
It's turtles all the way down.
Agreed -- exam-based certifications are good filler on a resume, but experience is king. I can tell you though, the OST courses focus on real-world experience, not an exam. There's an instructor that coaches you and keeps you at it until you get it right.
Also interesting is the use of Eclipse as the preferred learning platform as opposed to Netbeans.
Wow, so they teach what people actually use? What a concept!
Kidding (sort of)... NetBeans may be wonderful. But I don't think I've talked to anyone that's used it on a regular basis since 2002, It's about 90% Eclipse and 9.9% IDEA, with the occasional hard-core VI guy.
Garg
Alumnus, Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters
yeah, if you're complaining about the performance and resource usage of your favourite IDE, you need to run Visual Studio 2008. oh wait a minute....
I suspect you're doing it wrong. I've got a similar setup on my laptop, and Netbeans is usually not too slow, and Eclipse is tolerable most of the time. Even on my older desktop -- a 3.0 Pentium IV HT with 512MB and XP -- Netbeans is mostly tolerable, though Eclipse is a bit of a drag.
It might be different on the networking side, but I've never seen a developer cert that was worth the paper it was printed on.
Programming certs are silly because programmers are usually hired by other programmers who use the same systems. Serious programs are rarely written by a single person. The manager of a Java programming team usually knows Java.
System administration certs make more sense because the hiring manager may not be familiar with the specific product, and so would be unable to verify the competence of prospective employees.
-- Support a free market in the field of government
That loud mouthed good for nothing son of a ...
Oh. Nevermind, carry on.
A good IDE is a productivity tool. It leverages computer power to make your job faster, via things like "Intellisense", drag & drop code, easy refactoring tools, visual tools, etc. It's unfortunate that these IDEs don't come with a "Power Slider" to let you control things like what get cached and what doesn't.
However, in your case, XP really sucks on one gig of RAM. I've seen VS 2005 take an entire gig just for large project. Remember, the IDE isn't trying to be a pig here, it's trying to cache all kinds of things in memory to make your job easier and faster. But your laptop is definitely a few years behind the curve. You're basically asking why your Power Drill isn't working very well with your AAA batteries.
You may just have too much RAM already used by the time you start Eclipse. I generally run Eclipse J2EE + more plugins in about 128-256MB heap space, and as long as that heap space is available on *physical* memory, it's silky smooth even on a 1.2Ghz Duo. You are doing something wrong and it's not Eclipse' fault.
Sam ty sig.
Why would you throw away a resume just because they list their certs? I can see discounting or even skipping over the section, but throwing out a candidate because they gave you information seems to be a sure way to lose good people. I admit I'm on the networking side, but I tend to put enough information on my resume to show a wide variety of experience. I could show just the stuff listed in their job posting but then I'd probably get pigeonholed into some narrow focused job, I'm a generalist and would like to stay that way =)
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
...and this is with a 1.6 GHz Duo, a gig of Ram, on XP. Geeze, WTF! Do I need a frick'n gaming machine to write code now?!?
Notepad should run just fine on that kind of setup. Code away!
We recently had a discussion about this on our local JUG, and the consensus was in fact that people giving to much weight to their "eduction" would generally have their CV's chucked. People doing the hiring view certificates (especially to many of them) as a way to cover up incompetence.
Got a pretty boring job right now, so I thought I'd tried to bump up my skills during regular office downtime. The Unix sysadmin modules are OK, and a million miles better than crappy 'learn-by-rote' microsoft courses. To get through them you do need to have some clue, though I have found them pretty easy (with 2 years' sysadmin experience). I would recommend them to a total beginner to get up to speed working on real systems. Anyone at a higher level can get just as much from a test system and a bunch of textbooks, for a far lower price.
Now, anyone sufficiently motivated can learn all of that on their own. Which is fine. But why not get the piece of paper that confirms you have a strong grasp of most of the common language API?
All in all, I consider $30 for a study guide and $200 for the test money well spent. Now I'll agree with anyone that says a certification is no substitute for good experience and especially no substitute for a strong foundation in software engineering concepts. But a good certification is not a waste of time.
I work at a company that uses Struts and Hibernate. Many of the places hiring senior Java devs near me want the candidate to be proficient in Spring. In my personal experience, simply writing a technology down on a resume without having any attached work experience does not carry any weight.
So what would you suggest? Writing an application with Spring and referencing the URL on the resume? Simply listing that I am proficient with it despite the lack of work experience? Or a Spring certification?
Go Go...
----- You know you have ego issues when you register a domain in your name.
Agreed. I am a recent 4 year college grad. I have not yet taken the exam but I've been reading the Java core books. There is so much I was never taught about how Java works at collage. You might be able to write a good program in Java but if you can't pass that test you will never be able to write truly great programs that take full advantage of what Java has to offer.
To add to your list... I spent a good week looking for a good description of Java annotations on the web. In the end I just looked it up in the Java core books. The explanation taught me everything I could need to know about what they were and how they worked.
It depends on how many projects you have and what else you are running. I do JSP work on a huge code base. So I tend to have a web server, Eclipse, and web browser running at all times. I needed at least 2 gigs to work at any kind of normal speed.
I would like to note that the version of Java you are running DOES matter. Java has significant speed and GUI improvements every release. If you can't update the version of Java for the software you're running Eclipse can compile and run software with one JDK and run it self on a different JRE
I have a "Web Programming" cert from O'Reilly. One of the six (> $300 @) courses comprising said cert required me to "learn" Unix. I think we got as far as the 'ls' command. The O'Reilly folks are where I turn first for IT books, but, these courses simply do not measure up.
So what would you suggest? Writing an application with Spring and referencing the URL on the resume? Simply listing that I am proficient with it despite the lack of work experience? Or a Spring certification?
I take it you're not proficient in Spring?
If that's the case, don't pretend to be. If you're smart, frameworks are very easy to pickup if you're in an environment where they're already used. If a place is really adamant about "requiring framework or technology X", then it's a good sign there's something odd going on at that company. I'll choose someone who's intelligent and has good instincts over someone that knows the ins and outs of a technology every time. If you're really concerned about "not knowing technology X", then just go and learn it by producing something. A cert should be considered worthless.
AccountKiller
But your laptop is definitely a few years behind the curve. You're basically asking why your Power Drill isn't working very well with your AAA batteries.
But if I'm trying to get a job, how do I pay for newer hardware to develop a portfolio on?
I wouldn't lie. I would only list a Spring website or personal proficiency after I had actually built one or developed it, respectively.
But hoping that all HR screening processes are reasonable is rough. I've got three kids, if one job goes south for any reason I want to find a local replacement very fast.