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Debian Running On the T-Mobile G1

Posted by timothy on from the teaching-the-android-to-fetch-and-sit dept.

chrb writes "Following hot on the heels of the G1 root exploit, Jay Freeman now has Debian ARM running on the G1. The RC30 update has fixed the root hole, but with utilities and images already available to replace the flash image with your own signed code, it looks like the manufacturer-hacker arms race is on."

15 of 127 comments (clear)

  1. Isn't that the whole idea of an open platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    i.e., to enable hackers to experiment and thereby improve the platform further.

    1. Re:Isn't that the whole idea of an open platform? by Microlith · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well sure, within the context of running applications in a Java sandbox and doing things in emulators.

      Once you bring in carriers into the mix, "open" goes out the window because it gives people the ability to step around your nickel and diming.

    2. Re:Isn't that the whole idea of an open platform? by CodeBuster · · Score: 4, Informative

      Once you bring in carriers into the mix, "open" goes out the window because it gives people the ability to step around your nickel and diming.

      Yes, but T-Mobile is better than most other US Carriers in this regard. They use GSM phones so just about any phone that takes GSM should work on their network. They don't play games like Verizon does with bluetooth connectivity and ringtones and they gave me the unlock code for my phone three (3) months into the contract. My only real complaints are that their coverage is not as good as Verizon and the prices on their data services are a bit higher, but with all of the restrictions that other US Carriers place on their "unlimited" data plans you have to wonder whether there really is a difference in price relative to what you get.

    3. Re:Isn't that the whole idea of an open platform? by Nursie · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Same thing as the iPhone. You're either in the sandbox or you jailbreak."

      No, not same as the iPhone at all. On the iPhone you have to jailbreak if you want to run non-approved apps, even in the sandbox.

      OTOH, it is a bit crap, but at least with android we have the source. I have it running on my freerunner now

    4. Re:Isn't that the whole idea of an open platform? by cl0s · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can download Android apps directly from the web to the phone and install, push them to the phone from your computer using the android tool kit or download them from Android Market. In the market you can even find a J2ME installer that lets you install JAR files off the web.

      I have an ssh client and terminal emulator that I downloaded directly from the Market, plus a few other apps for rss, meebo for AIM (so it doesn't use up text messages), games, Compare Everywhere for scanning bar-codes and finding deals, and more all from the Market. There is even half working VNC viewer that I found online. They've got an iTunes remote that works nice, but I need one for Rhythmbox or Elisa on Ubuntu. With the "openness" that Android does provide, you can get really creative and innovative though.

      That's not to say you can't push it even further by jail-breaking and installing Debian ARM or some other GNU/Linux OS. This little thing could be a low powered router with a few extra features and much more jail-broken. I'm trying to get a rig going where I can just have it be the media player for my car, I mean it's even got streaming Internet radio (imeem & last fm so far). I'm all for openness, I was contemplating getting the OpenMoko before this, but I really don't have much to complain about with Android so far. Hopefully T-mobile doesn't fuck it up.

  2. I'm confused... by maestro371 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I thought the whole point of the G1 was that it was an open platform. Why on earth is there a "manufacturer-hacker arms race"?

    1. Re:I'm confused... by Facegarden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why on earth is there a "manufacturer-hacker arms race"?

      There isn't, it's BS, and none of the blogs seem to get is. So far as we can tell, google only fixed the root exploit because it was a serious security concern, because of how it worked. I don't think they are going to make a real effort to stop people from hacking their device aside from fixing security flaws. Even if they do, this is so far not an indication of that, contrary to what most sites say.
      -Taylor

      --
      Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
    2. Re:I'm confused... by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It depends on your definition of "platform," I believe.

      Android is open software platform in that you can do whatever you want within Android. But that doesn't make the G1 an open hardware platform, where you could install a different operating system.

      OpenMoko is an open hardware platform.

      Now, personally, I see no reason why T-Mobile would care whether you're running Android or Debian. Google might care because they want you running those nice Android apps which interface with Google because that's how they're paying for Android development. But I'm not sure that they have any kind of agreement which would require the makers of the G1 to make sure that the phones are tamper-proof.

    3. Re:I'm confused... by Facegarden · · Score: 3, Interesting

      One needs to be aware of where the money is made. The actual phone manufacturer makes money by selling a locked version to a telecom, the telecom makes money by selling the phone and the phone service to retail clients.

      If you get a free phone with a low monthly service charge and then you hack it, you could make expensive calls over IP and pay the telecom, nothing more than the monthly rent.

      Thus the telecom needs the phone to be locked to make (more) money and the manufacturer has to lock the phone in order to please the telecom, who is, after all, its client.

      Yes, there will be an arms race because its about controlling the money making process.

      The CEO of T-Mobile straight up said they will allow VOIP apps, and will do nothing to stop them. That's the entire point of android being open, but everyone keeps assuming it will be more and more locked down.

      In that same interview the CEO also said they won't stop unlockers. Why would they anyway? You agreed to a contract and they can charge you an ETF if you leave, so if you want to unlock it and use it on business, there is no reason not to let you.

      The _ENTIRE_ point of android is that it is open, and i wholeheartedly believe that google will stick to that.
      -Taylor

      --
      Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
    4. Re:I'm confused... by dlevitan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Now, personally, I see no reason why T-Mobile would care whether you're running Android or Debian. Google might care because they want you running those nice Android apps which interface with Google because that's how they're paying for Android development. But I'm not sure that they have any kind of agreement which would require the makers of the G1 to make sure that the phones are tamper-proof.

      I doubt even Google will care. How many people will actually install Debian on a G1? How many people will actually install it and keep it on there? I doubt even 0.1% of users will do either. But these are also the people who will praise Google for an open platform and for not locking it up like the iPhone. They're also the people who'll probably create apps for Android that bypass Google. Will Google notice the drop in revenue? Probably not, and certainly not enough to offset the bad PR.

    5. Re:I'm confused... by Facegarden · · Score: 5, Informative

      And that's the problem.

      You pay for the "device".

      Google OWNS the operating system.

      Duetch Telecom OWNS the device.

      You only pay for it to rent it while you use it, and then pay a monthly fee for network access on top of that.

      And this is open, how?

      --Toll_Free

      Umm... it's open because the entire OS is released under the Apache or GLPv3 (depending on which part of the OS) licenses. I'm not well versed in which licenses are or are not "really" open, but i am under the impression that both of those are supposed to be. Android is based on version 2.6 of the linux kernel, and the framework on top of that was written by google, and the source code was released under Apache and heavily documented.

      That's way more open than any other successful phone out there.

      And I don't know if you're exaggerating or if it's different in your country, but in the U.S. you OWN your cell phone. And i fail to see how paying a monthly fee to access a network has anything to do with whether or not the phone is open - no one is going to let you use their multi-billion dollar network for free, and i'm fine with that.

      Why is everyone so bent on hating android, even with no facts to back up what they say? Google fixes a security bug and everyone flips out, but the countless times google and the t-mobile CEO have said they will keep the device open? No one seems to remember or care.
      -Taylor

      --
      Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
    6. Re:I'm confused... by chrb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's Google's OS though.

      No, it was written by Linus Torvalds and thousands of other contributors, and released under the GPL. It's our OS. Google just borrowed it for a while.

  3. That's Android, not G1... by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Informative

    There isn't, it's BS, and none of the blogs seem to get is. So far as we can tell, google only fixed the root exploit

    The root exploit is unrelated to the ability to flash the ROM. The question then is, will there be attempts made to stop user flashing of updates to the device...

    I do not think there will be, it's just that Android fixes should not be confused with openness of the device itself.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:That's Android, not G1... by chrb · · Score: 4, Informative

      The root exploit is unrelated to the ability to flash the ROM.

      From what I've heard, you need root access or the T-Mobile private key to flash the ROM.

      The question then is, will there be attempts made to stop user flashing of updates to the device...

      Err, yes, the head of the Android team at Google has actually confirmed that only the manufacturer or the cell network provider have the cryptographic keys required to flash the G1 (via OTA updates or otherwise).

      I do not think there will be, it's just that Android fixes should not be confused with openness of the device itself.

      When root access to the G1 is denied by default, and exploits that allow root access are quickly patched, how would you interpret this? The fact is that you do not get root access to the G1 by default, and as of this moment, there is no known way to get root access, or to flash your own kernel, on a RC30 G1.

  4. Re:So? by clang_jangle · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not quite so. FTFA: "This does not replace Android. This also gives you access to the full plethora of programs available in Debian and let's you continue using your phone as it was intended to be: as an Android device with all the capabilities thereof."

    --
    Caveat Utilitor