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London's Oystercard Gets New Contract, But Same Suppliers

nk497 writes "Over the summer, the London travelcard ticketing system — called Oyster — fell over twice, forcing the transport authority to offer free travel to the six million Londoners using the system. After that, it cut its contract with the supplier of the system, a consortium called TranSys. But now, Transport for London has signed a new contract to replace the TranSys one — with the same two companies that made up the TranSys consortium. Sure, that should fix everything."

33 of 143 comments (clear)

  1. Because... by Cornwallis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Like economists, weather forecasters and politicians (feel free to add to the list), no matter how bad IT people screw up they always can get rehired.

    1. Re:Because... by zappepcs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When you get the weather forecast, since you don't know the meteorologist's job it will seem like he is incompetent when you get rained on in what is supposed to be a sunny day. Your expectations of their abilities clouds your understanding of what can really happen.

      The same things happen in the IT world. When those in charge have clouded vision (some even wear bloody blindfolds) they will have no useful understanding of how to manage an IT project. I believe that in the London area this is not the first demonstration that government types are fairly blind to how to successfully complete a major IT project. In fact, there have been so many stories of such blindness from London that it makes one wonder how they planned to use IT to manage all those cameras.

      Anyway, when you only know two companies that want to do the job... whose CEOs happen to drink in the same club that you do..... errr well, a change in name should be good enough. After all, it worked for those blokes who make voting machines in America. Right!

    2. Re:Because... by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What are they supposed to do? "Oh, these people are all stupid. Lets chuck em out and get some better ones." The problem isn't that they can't solve the problem. The problem is, they're being employed to try in the first place. Raise taxes. Make public transportation absolutely free. Watch cars on the road go down. Watch societal energy requirements go down. Watch population redistribute themselves along the public transportation corridors, reducing energy requirements further. Watch everyone get that little bit richer as a consequence. Problems solved. The strategy makers are the problem.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    3. Re:Because... by hattig · · Score: 5, Interesting

      For the most part Oyster cards work extremely well. Two downtimes in several years isn't the worst thing ever considering the number of people with travelcards on their Oyster cards who are paying regardless of whether the system is up or down at a particular time.

      Without Oyster the entire network would grind to a halt at peak hours due to added processing time (even to put a ticket through the tube gate machines, never mind queues and buying bus tickets instead of simply swiping).

      There isn't any room to raise taxes right now, they've done it consistently over the past 11 years until people have very little spare cash. Anyway, Oyster works in London, which has the congestion charge for cars, so most people don't drive to work here if they don't have to. If they did they wouldn't ever get to work.

      The only issue is the Oyster card hack, that took years to appear. But the track record is pretty impressive, so choosing them as the supplier seems quite a sensible solution to me. At least it wasn't one of the waste of time governmental contractors like EDS who just absorb public money in return for nothing or freedom-inhibiting systems.

    4. Re:Because... by jonbryce · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem is that London's transport system can't cope the the volume of passengers that use it at the moment. Make it free, and the whole system will completely melt down from the number of people using it.

      Very few people drive to work in London, as parking is way more expensive than public transport, and there is congestion charge on top.

    5. Re:Because... by Candid88 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would have to agree that the Oyster card has all-in-all been a success. I used to live in London in the late 90's and at peak times you would have 20-person queues at each barrier-gate as the millions of people who use the "tube" daily tried to insert their paper card in the the narrow slit.

      Using the tube on recent holiday to the U.K. I noticed things certainly seemed to go smoother with the majority of people swiping a card above a sensor at much greater speed than previously.

      This is an example of technology making things easier and more efficient for the end-user. Exactly what technology should do.

    6. Re:Because... by Hognoxious · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was just going to comment that if they'd hired EDS the system wouldn't have gone down - it wouldn't have been running in the first place.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  2. Calling what's-his-name... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    London needs help on their series of tubes.

  3. Damaged RFID cards by sakdoctor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why do the cards need to be writeable in a way that can cause permanent damage?

    1. Re:Damaged RFID cards by compro01 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Unless I'm misunderstanding, it's not writing to them, it's overloading them. RFID works a bit like a crystal set radio, they're powered off the transmission and use that power to transmit a signal back. Transmit a powerful enough signal to them, and you fry the chip.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    2. Re:Damaged RFID cards by Chabil+Ha' · · Score: 2, Informative

      A casual look at wikipedia reveals the following:

      The system is asynchronous, with the current balance and ticket data held electronically on the card rather than in the central database. The main database is updated periodically with information received from the card by barriers and validators. Tickets purchased online or over the telephone are "loaded" at a preselected barrier or validator./quote

      --
      We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
    3. Re:Damaged RFID cards by John+Hasler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > The system is asynchronous, with the current balance and ticket data held electronically
      > on the card rather than in the central database.

      This is remarkably stupid.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    4. Re:Damaged RFID cards by djdavetrouble · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Transmit a powerful enough signal to them, and you fry the chip.

      So if I walk through a facility with my Chip Frier(TM) I can just wantonly destroy
      any RFID chip that stands in the way of me and my goal? That seems bad.

      --
      music lover since 1969
    5. Re:Damaged RFID cards by AdamInParadise · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, with a server-side solution, you just have to make sure that every turnstile can call a central server and process a transaction in less than 200ms. This includes the turnstiles in buses and in remote locations...

      Truth is, every transportation system with more than a few fixed turnstile stores the rights of the user locally, in the smartcard chip. Of course, transactions logs are analysed every night and it is usually possible to detect incoherences between the values stored in the card and the reference value stored in the server. In that case, the ID of the misbehaving card is placed on a "hot list" and the card cannot be used anymore.

      Of course, this works only if you use real cryptographic algorithms (like 3DES or AES) to protect the content of the card instead of relying on a vendor's snake oil.

      --
      Nobox: Only simple products.
    6. Re:Damaged RFID cards by AdamInParadise · · Score: 2, Informative

      Rule 1: Never trust the client.
      Rule 2: Never trust the client.
      Rule 3: Never, ever, ever, trust the client.

      This is a good rule when the customer can do whatever he wants with the client, including reading and modifying values in memory. So this is true for PCs. Smartcards are different in the sense that they are designed to prevent the customer from accessing and modifying the content of the card. Of course, given enough time and money, everything can be cracked. Now, in some cases it is possible that the convenience of storing the data locally, in the chip, outweighs the risks. The people in charge of the deployment of the Oyster card misjuged the risk associated with Mifare cards and are now paying the price.

      Anyone with an RFID reader/writer and enough time could modify their card to report whatever balance they want.

      This is only true for Mifare Classic cards, which is the type of cards used in London. Transportation systems that do not use Mifare Classic cards are totally unaffected by this hack.

      Oh wait, it already happened. It's why the old company was being dumped.

      Actually, they aren't. It seems that they only dumped two consultants. Furthermore, the company that manufactures the Mifare cards (NXP) was not even a part of this consortium. Also the company in charge of the procurement of the card is still there. Finally, switching to another type of card would be extremelly expensive. They are simply going to use the newer Mifare Plus cards that relies on 3DES. Mifare cards with support for DES and 3DES have been available for a while, it's just that they are a bit more expensive than Mifare Classic cards.

      --
      Nobox: Only simple products.
    7. Re:Damaged RFID cards by AdamInParadise · · Score: 2, Informative

      The first link is related to the Mifare hack. Mifare cards are insecure, this has been known for a long time. Now I will grant you that the response from the MTBA and NXP have been distateful but predictable.

      The second link is an "Analysis of an Electronic Voting System" so it has nothing to do with the security of smartcards per se. If Diebold doesn't know how to implement a secure voting system, this cannot be blamed on smartcards.

      The third link points to a PR from the Smart Card Alliance ("a nonprofit industry body representing several large vendors of smart-card and RFID technologies") pointing out flaws in the government plans for RFID passports. That's a pretty responsible move for an industry body that's supposed to lobby on behalf on its constituents.

      The last links is identical to the second link.

      --
      Nobox: Only simple products.
    8. Re:Damaged RFID cards by djt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's really not stupid given that the oyster card has to work across the whole tube, bus, DLR and train networks, on hand-held devices that conductors carry around the busses as well as barriers, turnstiles and 100 different ticketing systems. The Oyster card system works exceptionally well given the millions of transactions that occur daily. Changing suppliers would be an incedibly difficult move to make given the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" rule.

  4. Two Things: by wild_quinine · · Score: 4, Informative
    1) The new contract excludes one of the original parties in the consortium.

    2) The renegotiated contract includes 'significant savings'.

    Sounds like the government decided five nines wasn't as important as cutting the bill in half... as well as one of the former parties to the contract. ;)

  5. FYI by djupedal · · Score: 4, Informative

    TranSys is a consortium of four global companies:

    • Electronic Data Systems (EDS)
    • Cubic Transportation Systems (CTS)
    • Fujitsu Services Limited
    • WS Atkins
  6. Bank station by Rik+Sweeney · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So, who here from London has the misfortune of having to use Bank or Monument Stations? I'm staggered how they can fuck something like replacing an escalator up.

    Just for everyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, here's the lowdown:

    TFL are replacing the escalators that connect Bank and Monument stations together. How long do you think this should take? 2 weeks? 1 month? Nope, here's how long:

    18 months.

    18 months to replace a fucking escalator. The building opposite where I work was put up quicker than that! Meanwhile, the poor bastards who have to use the station all have to walk down a corridor that's been designed to only take a 1/4 of the volume it's experiencing now.

    I love the advert projectors too, especially the one they've placed right in front of the LCD screen so you can't tell when the next train is due.

    Greed, nothing but.

    1. Re:Bank station by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have a friend who is an engineer working on this project.

      The back story is that TFL awarded this contract to Metronet. After a year of delay, Metronet went bust. So TFL took a few months to rethink, and re-awarded the contract to Tubelines.

      My friend has spent the last three months trying to get the basic design information out of Metronet and their sub-contractors. They are refusing to provide any, or dragging their feet so slowly that they get the same effect. So Tubelines are having to design the new escalator again from scratch.

      That's why it's taking so long....

  7. My My... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Funny

    The great ship Titanic certainly does seem to be on a much more even keel since we moved these deck chairs around...

  8. Tracking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Better not mention that this card will enable the authorities to track all travel. They have already got rid of paying by cash on a lot of bus routes, forcing cash payers to pay twice as much as the Oyster payers to "encourage" the card use. To aid this, they have recently got rid of the pre-pay paper *1 tickets under disguise of mass fraud *2. Also children under 16 get "free" *3 travel using Oyster whilst data is actually being secretly collected for the governments ID card system.

    *1: They were offering travel using these tickets the same price as the Oyster system.
    *2: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/singlefares/2904.aspx
    *3: Free as in other sucker taxpayers paid for their privilege.

    1. Re:Tracking by nogginthenog · · Score: 2, Informative

      You don't have to register an Oyster card to an address (mine isn't, but I do use a credit card to top it up so...). I heard they are available pro-loaded from vending machines at airports.

    2. Re:Tracking by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Better not mention that this card will enable the authorities to track all travel.

      I depend on the public transportation infrastructure of New York City, and I wish "the authorities" (ooo, spooky) would start tracking all travel here already.

      Right now, what does the MTA know about subway usage patterns? They know how many people get into the system at each station (thanks to electronic fare control gates), and have a pretty good idea of how many people exit the system at each station (not all exit gates have counters attached), but they can only estimate what people are actually doing once they're in the system. From Grand Central, how many passengers are heading uptown vs. downtown vs. crosstown? What are their ultimate destinations, and what routes take them there?

      If every passenger's entrance and exit points from the system were recorded individually, that data could be analyzed to make the entire system more efficient.

  9. UK transport a disgrace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Comments here that gripe about the UK, always seem to focus on privacy and the state. But transport in London and the rest of the UK is our real embarrasment.

    Entirely foreign owned, manned by minimum-wage slaves who can't speak a word of English and run by greedy, grossly incompetent asshats the UK public transport system is a disgrace. It's a dirty, unreliable, overcrowded, polluting, expensive, piss poor apology for a public transport system. On a good day.

    Roads and railways close at random. Everything is at a halt while speed cameras, penalty travel fines and congestion zones rob any traveller of money to feed the machine. We have a war on travel in the UK.

    It has a staggering downtime. On any random day, particualrly at weekends, you will find whole subnetworks of the UK public transport system closed off due to 'engineering works'. You'll often get stranded in some back of beyond town and need to hire a taxi, hitch-hike, sleep in a hotel (or if you have no money in a station). Surely no other system in the world is this much of a fucked up, crumbling mess.

    The airport and railway authorities are laws unto themselves, still wielding ancient bylaw legislation from the days when it was a National state run transport system. Passengers are just unwanted cattle. The fare structures are unfathomable, even if you have a degree in maths and logistics just try working out the best ticket to buy. They change the names of products and prices at random to stop any customers or intermediate sellers getting settled. They misrepresent contract law, making specious pseudo-legal announcements telling lies about where and when you must buy a ticket in order to maximise their profits. Station staff who could once help you have been sacked and replaced with machines and ticket barriers.

    Lord only knows what it costs our economy! The UK government and the private companies that run our roads and railways are a complete and utter failure at transport policy. I honestly think they have an agenda to halt the entire country and make sure everyone stays in their homes.

    1. Re:UK transport a disgrace by DavidTC · · Score: 2, Insightful

      At least you have fucking mass transit.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    2. Re:UK transport a disgrace by LackThereof · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You have a system in London that supports 4.5 million riders a day, in a city of 7.3 million. That's nearly 2/3 of the population.

      Here in America, most of our major metropolitan areas have abortive mass transit systems that support closer to 1/10th of their population. Diesel buses are the workhorses of our transit systems and carry the vast majority of our transit commuters. Most are standing-room-only, thanks to the gas prices of the past few years and infrequent service. Most of our metro areas are just now starting to build small light-rail transit lines to supplement the bus service.

      Be thankful you don't live in the Atlanta or Phoenix areas. At least you can get to "some back of beyond town" on your system. On ours, you're lucky if it's even theoretically possible to do a weekday commute.

      --
      Legalize recreational marijuana. Seriously.
    3. Re:UK transport a disgrace by teh+kurisu · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'd say that the vast majority of your post doesn't apply to the London transport system. I've visited a couple of times this year and was amazed by how efficient and useful it was. Everything seemed to be within walking distance of a Tube or DLR station.

      Compare with Glasgow where the subway has never, ever been expanded from the single circle line, which doesn't really go anywhere now that the shipbuilding areas have collapsed. They've been talking about extending it for a while now but nothing seems to be happening. And then there's Edinburgh... they're building a tram line, but whether there'll be the money or enthusiasm to build beyond the initial plans I don't know.

      Station staff who could once help you have been sacked and replaced with machines and ticket barriers.

      This made me chuckle. Those ticket machines are a godsend, it used to be that a lot of stations didn't have them, and the ticket office was closed 24 hours a day (Fife Circle I'm looking at you). Sometimes the ticket inspector would fail to make an appearance on the train too. In Edinburgh Waverley they have a ticket office on the train side of the barriers, so that you could buy a ticket just to pass the barriers.

  10. Re:I get the impression that by gurps_npc · · Score: 4, Informative

    The instances where the fee barely covers the cost of collecting are always in less urbanized areas. In major cities, like New York and London, the fees cover most of the cost of transportation. In fact one of the things NYC's MTA is always complaining about is that the State and Federal government give huge amounts to subsidize suburban and rural public transportation and give practically nothign to the city

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  11. Stupid Slashdot Stories by lancejjj · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So the Transport organization formed a new contract with the same parties that failed them before. HOWEVER, the new contract is much more robust, with many more protections for the transport authority, and many more penalties for the provider if and when they fail.

    So what exactly wrong with this? That someone who screwed up got a new contract?

    Let me say that there are very few organizations that have the ability to deliver ANY service in this area. Having a contractor with a track record and some history of failure doesn't mean that the contractor aren't the best choice for the job.

    Is this corruption or stupidity? Likely not. This is simple business.

  12. I've always thought that public transit by hey! · · Score: 2, Interesting

    should be free. It'd take a large, complex function out of running a transit system, and simplify travel. I wonder what percentage of a fare dollar goes to managing the fare collection?

    Of course, outfits like the AAA don't like the idea of transit riders getting, er, a free ride. But you don't pay to drive on a freeway, and that's pretty expensive to keep up. You don't pay the cost of the pollution you emit either. A big city like London ought to do everything it can to reduce the impact of cars: the traffic, pollution, parking problems and so forth.

    I'm not saying this is a solution for smaller cities , but for huge cities, especially old huge cities like London or New York, cars just aren't a reasonable solution to moving people around; the density of the cities makes them impractical. You could try to keep them out, of course, with high bridge tolls, but I think it makes much more sense to make public transit really, really easy to use: no fare zones, no fare cards, no toll collectors, nothing.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  13. Re:Bank station - obligatory reply by Tired+and+Emotional · · Score: 2, Funny

    At least you weren't relying on Mornington Crescent

    --
    Squirrel!