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How Politics Interacts With Games

Crispy Gamer sat down with Hal Halpin, president of the Entertainment Consumer Association, and had him explain how the games industry interacts with various aspects of the government, such as lobbying efforts, the supreme court, and particular politicians. A related editorial suggests some things President Elect Obama can do to bring change to the industry. "We also need to rein in the used games market and not with DRM. It is fundamentally unfair that developers are being robbed of profits for work that they've done. If the ESA will not offer a mandate, then we'll need the government to do so. Publishers and developers should be entitled to at least half of the price from the sale of every used game." Kotaku has a response which points out flaws in the author's arguments.

16 of 81 comments (clear)

  1. Fundamentally unfair?! by Derekloffin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I really have to say it, that's a darn tunnel visioned statement. I don't know a single creative work where the resulting work cannot be resold legally, and the original work's creator gets even a dime off that used sale. So, what exactly makes games the special case?

    1. Re:Fundamentally unfair?! by Thiez · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > So, what exactly makes games the special case?

      They might get away with it.

    2. Re:Fundamentally unfair?! by Ifandbut · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have no idea what makes games a special case. If we need to rein in the used games industry then we also need to rein in used DVDs, used computers, used books, used VHS because the publishers/makers of those products are not seeing any money from the resale.

    3. Re:Fundamentally unfair?! by 91degrees · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And used clothing, used furniture, used power tools...

    4. Re:Fundamentally unfair?! by DrEldarion · · Score: 4, Informative

      He admits himself that it was a dumb idea. From the Kotaku article:

      It is true that enclosed in my editorial is a single paragraph dedicated to "reining in the used games market." It is also true that this paragraph was shortsighted and not anywhere near as well as thought out as it could've been, especially with implications for the market and government control. I will freely admit of my own volition that I did not fully grasp the implications of what I had written until some of the comments had come in. I admit this because I have realized that the full implications of the paragraph in question are the polar opposite of my beliefs.

    5. Re:Fundamentally unfair?! by grcumb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And used clothing, used furniture, used power tools...

      Not to mention houses and cars. Poor, starving architects and designers, working for nothing but commissions.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    6. Re:Fundamentally unfair?! by damburger · · Score: 3, Funny

      Screw the salvation army! Those brass-playing, subversive pinkos are maliciously assaulting poor, put upon entrepreneurs, and hiding their anticapitalist malovelence behind their quaint uniforms and Christmas carols.

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
  2. Market Forces by Forrest+Kyle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No one is "robbed" of profits by used game sales.

    The number of new copies sold of a game is a complex function of popularity, marketing, and quality. The number of used copies on the market is a function of the game's longevity, popularity, and quality. If the demand for the game is high, the number of used copies will be low. If the demand for the game is low, the number of used copies will be high.

    If you don't believe me, go to the local used games store and ask for a used copy of Chrono Trigger for the SNES. There might be one. It will be like $100. Now ask for a used copy of Madden 08. There are five of them for $9 each. The author is arguing that game developers should be rewarded extra money for producing games that are less desirable than successful games. If you produce a horrible game, and then have EA market the bajeezus out of it, you will find that in three months the bargain bins will be full of this game. Should we now reward the bad quality of this game by forcing retailers to pay out of pocket? It is some sort of "mediocrity tax" that goes against everything that is good about free market economics.

    Not only that, but the entire idea stinks of government directing the flow of the economy, something the Soviet Union discovered does not work so well. If I purchase something, I become the owner. Part of my rights of "life, liberty, and property" include "property", which means I own things that I buy and can in turn sell them to someone else. The author is, in a sense, arguing against the idea of ownership. You don't really own anything. You are just paying EA a fee to use it, and when you are done using it, you have to give it back.

    If game developers want to stop being "robbed of profits", they should stop making boring games that I can beat in a week, which have no further interest to me. People are bored of spending $60 on a game that has $3 million worth of graphics content and $.35 worth of game. You know what games I sell used? Crappy ones with no replay value. You know what games I still own? Kick ass games that I still play from time to time, even though they may be old. Games that I enjoyed so much that, even though I don't play them anymore, I just love having them.

    If they stamp out the buying and selling of used games, they will discover something interesting: The sales of good games will not increase, and the sales of bad games will actually decrease, because people are risk averse to something they can't sell once they've ripped through the 9 hours of expensive art content with no challenge or depth whatsoever.

    1. Re:Market Forces by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 3, Interesting

      People are bored of spending $60 on a game that has $3 million worth of graphics content and $.35 worth of game. You know what games I sell used? Crappy ones with no replay value. You know what games I still own? Kick ass games that I still play from time to time, even though they may be old.

      Absolutely. I will gladly pay +$60 dollars for a quality title and will be proud to have it in my collection till the day I die. I never sell games, just like I never sell books. It's just not worth it to lose an item of such high quality. It's practically blasphemous.

      True AAA games rarely get sold, and when they do, it's for a premium. The original God of War still sells for $30 on the second hand market. Titles like these are the reason things like the sony platinium series were created, so that developers could still make money off quality titles long after the initial release. And it works! The original Starcraft is still for sale, 10 years after it was released.

      Video games, despite popular opinion, do not become outdated. True classics shine through time and pixelation. Frankly, the danm things age like wine in many instances. But of course, to become a classic, you actually need to be a very good game, which brings us to our original point. Developers want a quick buck through marketing tripe rather than long term revenue from brilliant titles. Naturally, my heart bleeds for them.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    2. Re:Market Forces by Ed+Avis · · Score: 2, Interesting

      More importantly, part of the value of a game is its resale value. When people buy a car they take into account how much it's likely to be worth in three, five, ten years' time when they want to sell it. You'd be much more likely to stump up $50 for a game if you were pretty sure you could sell it for $30 on Ebay or Amazon a few months later. The game publishers should be encouraging this secondary market.

      I suppose one difference is that there is no piracy of cars; you can sell it to another person and they now own it. You can do that with a video game too, but it's sooo tempting just to leave a backup copy on your own computer. If you accept the principle of copyright, which is that making a copy requires special permission and this is how the authors and publishers make money, then a market in 'secondhand' games which are really just pirate copies doesn't help the industry or, in the long run, encourage development of new games.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    3. Re:Market Forces by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 2

      Yes, Starcraft and the Blizzard-backed expansion work fine on Vista. You shouldn't even need to do anything special to get it running, just install it and connect to battle.net to patch it.

      I installed it recently because I thought I'd like to play it again, and did for a while. I do have some issues with textures not showing up properly, but I think it's just the crappy Intel video card in my laptop rather than a specific Vista issue.

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
  3. Dairy cattle by tfmachad · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "developers are being robbed of profits for work that they've done" This is absolutely brilliant. [/sarcasm] How about developers come up with content that will hold users' attention long enough so used games won't directly compete with their new counterparts? A lot of people I know hold on to the good games they get because they might want to play again in the future. By the way, can I return a game after I have installed it because I'm not satisfied with its features? Like, when I don't like how the game responds, or because it has below standard artistic value, or simply because the game isn't nearly as fun as it was advertised to be? The game industry gets away with too much bullshit already. I'm not about to have them milk me for money like I'm some dairy cattle.

  4. Re:I Hate This by Nursie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    IMHO, I should (easily and without any charge) be able to sell my add-ons too.

    Sure they only exist in electronic form, but when I'm finished with them and finished with the game, I should be able to sell all of it.

    Otherwise we get back to the situation of publishers selling half a game and then loads of DLC.

  5. Projection by ShakaUVM · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Reigning in the used game market is obviously a stupdid statement. First sale doctrine, etc., etc.

    I'm more concerned about the number of times I've heard variations of this statement made by otherwise intelligent people:
    "There is no better opportunity than now to try to engage Obama in open dialogue about our industry and correct some of these mistruths. I implore ECA President Hal Halpin, ESRB President Patricia Vance, head of EA Sports/industry veteran
    Peter Moore and a journalist of proper caliber (Geoff Keighley, Rob Fahey and Dan Hsu all come to mind) to approach President-Elect Obama about having an open dialogue with the industry
    "

    The problem (if you can call it that) with charismatic people is that we tend to project our own desires onto them. Hence all the ninnies saying that Obama will pay for their gas, and everything else under the sun, and the people (some of my friends included) sending in their resumes for positions in his administration. Because he's listening.

    Even though Obama is inexperienced, per se, he's shown himself to be an experienced politician, and the best politicians are capable of making it sound like they're listening to you and even agreeing with you while politely shooing you out the back door.

  6. Re:half of the price? by Anonymous+Cowpat · · Score: 2, Funny

    brilliant, if I buy a game for $50, and sell it for $30, my profit is $-20, so I owe them $-10. I like this plan.

    --
    FGD 135
  7. Re:hey you know what by damburger · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let me go ever further. Creators don't have a 'right' to make a living at all.

    Free association is essential. Free speech is essential. Individual industries are not. There is nothing to say that an artist of any kind is owed a living, if that living requires fundamental rights to be curtailed. If we have to choose between Holywood and free speech, it isn't any kind of choice at all.

    If you want to make money as a musician, you will have to do it the old fashioned way and actually perform, instead of charging people for distributing recordings of your performances. Movies are in the shit a bit - maybe its time for the theatre to make a comeback, as a medium for actors to make a living without dangerous encroachments on their audiences liberty.

    As for books? I suppose you can make a living through signings/conventions/after dinner speaking if you are good, but otherwise you are kind of screwed. Still, it will stop WH Smiths being filled floor to ceiling with insipid ghost-written biographies of Z-list celebrities and crappy Stephen King novels.

    --
    If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?