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Twenty Years of Dijkstra's Cruelty
WatersOfOblivion writes "Twenty years ago today, Edsger Dijkstra, the greatest computer scientist to never own a computer, hand wrote and distributed 'On the Cruelty of Really Teaching Computer Science' (PDF), discussing the then-current state of Computer Science education. Twenty years later, does what he said still hold true? I know it is not the case where I went to school, but have most schools corrected course and are now being necessarily cruel to their Computer Science students?" Bonus: Dijkstra's handwriting.
While the handwriting is a novelty (and the PDF is actually small for a PDF), I question how long that server is going to last.
Also (and yes this is nitpicking), I must contest this:
Edsger Dijkstra, the greatest computer scientist to never own a computer
I submit for consideration Alan Turing who may have designed the ACE and worked on the earliest computer (The Manchester Mark I) although never really owned it or any other computer. I think a lot of people identify him as not only a hero of World War II but also the father of all computers.
My work here is dung.
They made us do mostly Java, even though a number of us could do C or C++.
The aim of a really good degree (as opposed to a lecture driven box ticking one) is to be cruel, you want to feel that your head is going to explode and that your subject really is an absolute bitch.
Then you graduate and find out the real world is easier than the theory.
Cruelty is important in a good education to make you achieve in the real world. An easy flow through degree gets you the cert but gives you unrealistic expectation of how hard the real world can be.
Personally my degree was a mind bending bitch of mumbling lecturers and impossible (literally in some cases) questions that covered everything from quantum mechanics "basics" and abstract computing theory through to how to dope a transistor.
It was cruel, it was unusual... it was great.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
cat > hello.c
printf("hello world");
^D
gcc hello.c
hello.c:1: error: expected declaration specifiers or '...' before string constant
hello.c:1: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
hello.c:1: warning: conflicting types for built-in function 'printf'
I'd have to say in recruiting software engineers I have much more of a problem with theory-light code monkeys than I do with non-coders that are well-versed in CS theory. With the former you wind up with people who can't leave whatever language they're most familiar with and don't really understand why what they're doing works (cargo cult programming). It's easier to teach good coding practices in the field than it is CS theory.
My technical interviews aren't full of riddles or obscure CS theory questions, but I ask a series of pointed questions to see if the candidate has a good familiarity with the various language families (not just particular languages), common data structures (they should at least have encountered them, even if they need to look them up to implement them), and can talk in terms of pseudocode and algorithms instead of just library functions and language idiom. Language experience is a plus, but definitely not required.
Why is fake assembly and fake OS cruel? It's computer science, not a vocational tech course. They've presumably tried to bypass the issues of real-world systems that distract you from learning the point. Once you've got the basic concepts, any OS and any language become approachable - why would you want to learn something specific that would be out-of-date in short measure? Seems rather myopic to me.
I don't think you can lay the blame for students knowing less on the department that they attend.
Mine taught a good mix of coding and theory, but we still had morons who didn't do enough coding to actually learn their craft well, and people who learned the coding but didn't learn enough theory to get decent course grades.
The point is, while at university studying computer science or any other subject it is your own responsibility to teach yourself around the subjects you are introduced to in the classroom.
I was taught using Java and Delphi, and yet finished my degree as a pretty competent C coder, in spite of never having attended a class on that language.
I also studied a great deal more around the subjects then many of my peers. Those who did the same as me tended to do well on graduation, I went on to more years of poverty as a Ph.D student myself.
A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
It's the equivalent of a biology class detailing the possibilities of life, by examining chemical interactions, without actually examining any actual living organisms.
Our school had 3 separate Java classes, 3 separate C classes, and 3 separate C++ classes: all in 3 different departments.
Silly. This can't be true. Everyone knows that there are no classes in C.
A cat is no trade for integrity!
Dijkstra's comments were right on the mark, and fairly obvious to people outside of CS. They were only contentious within the field, for some odd reason.
The thing is, Computing Science should be approached in the same manner as most other science fields: A BSc in computing should be about theory, research, and pushing the state of the art. A modicum of programming is probably necessary to accomplish that, but programming should understood in the abstract--without the emphasis on 'this command, this language.' Learning to be a programmer (a) should be a division of computer engineering, or (b) probably not a degree at all. More like a one or two year college certificate.
Chemistry, Physics, Biology, Math, and so forth, are all degrees aimed at research and study, not commercial production. Why not computing?
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
cat > hello.pl
printf("hello world\n");
^D
perl hello.pl
hello world
You have been trolled (by Dijkstra).
I find it ironic that, to establish your argument that Java hides implementation details, you used a C++ example employing operator overloading such that the mere existence of functions is utterly concealed.
Boy do you need to go back to school. Edsger wrote more and better stuff in his lifetime than anyone here on Slashdot. Did you ever get directions from Google Maps or Mapquest? Thank Edsger -- his shortest path algorithm is what they all use, and by the way, he wrote that before you were born, most of you. You know the semaphores used in the multi-cpu Linux kernels? Yep, you owe Edsger for them, too. And programming languages like C, Pascal, etc.? He helped write the first Alogol compiler, the great-grand-daddy of them all, once again before most of you were born.
Just because he eschewed the run-break-fix approach so beloved of the folks who are spewing billions of lines of error-laden code into the world today, doesn't mean he hadn't forgotten more about writing code than most folks here have ever learned. And yes, he advocated developing code formally, and he liked to do it with pen and paper.
So learn about who you're making snide comments about, and show some respect. When people are still using any algorithm you came up with 30 years from now, you will have the right to say something about Edsger Dijkstra.
- "History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men" -- Blue Oyster Cult, 'Godzilla'