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IEEE Says Multicore is Bad News For Supercomputers
Richard Kelleher writes "It seems the current design of multi-core processors is
not good for the design of supercomputers. According to IEEE: 'Engineers at Sandia National Laboratories, in New Mexico, have simulated future high-performance computers containing the 8-core, 16-core, and 32-core microprocessors that chip makers say are the future of the industry. The results are distressing. Because of limited memory bandwidth and memory-management schemes that are poorly suited to supercomputers, the performance of these machines would level off or even decline with more cores.'"
Sounds like its time for supercomputers to go their own way again. I'd love to see some new technologies.
If you make a simulation like that keeping the memory interface constant then of course you'll see diminishing returns. That's why we're still not running plain old FSBs as AMD has HyperTransport, Intel has QPI, the AMD Horus system expands it up to 32 sockets / 128 cores and I'm sure something similar can and will be built as a supercomputer backplane. The header is more than a little sensationalist...
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>>>"After about 8 cores, there's no improvement," says James Peery, director of computation, computers, information, and mathematics at Sandia. "At 16 cores, it looks like 2 cores."
>>>
That's interesting but how does it affect us, the users of "personal computers"? Can we extrapolate that buying a CPU larger than 8 cores is a waste of dollars, because it will actually run slower?
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I once heard someone define a supercomputer as a $10 million memory system with a CPU thrown in for free. One of the interesting CPU benchmarks is to see how much data it can move when the cache is blown out.
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This doesn't quite make sense to me. You wouldn't replace a 64 CPU supercomputer with a single 64 core CPU, but would instead use 64 multicore CPUs. As production switches to multicore, the cost of producing multiple cores will be about the same as the single core CPUs of old. So eventually you'll get 4 cores from the price of 2, then get 8 cores from the price of 4, then 16 for the price of 8, etc. So the extra cores in the CPUs of a supercomputer are like a bonus, and if software can be written to utilize those extra cores in some way that benefits performance, then that's a good thing.
Better known as 318230.
The issue is with a single processor that has multiple cores.
There's no real way to split the banks for each core, so the net effect is that you have 4-32 cores sharing the same lanes for memory.
No, sorry. That's how Phenom processor are *Already* working.
Each physical CPU package has two 64-bit memory controllers, each controlling a separate bank of 64bits DDR-2 memory chips. (Each of the two bank in a dual channel mother board).
Phenom have two mode of function :
- Ganged : both memory controllers work in parallel, working as if they were a huge 128bits memory connection. That's how dual channel has worked since it was invented.
That's good for system running few very bandwidth-hungry applications (for example : benchmarks)
- Unganged : each memory controller work on its own. Thus you have two completely separate 64bits memory channel accessible at the same time. By correctly lying the applications in memory thanks to a NUMA-aware OS (anything better than Windows Vista), that means that two separate applications can simultaneously access each one's memory at the exact same moment, although at only half the bandwith *per process* (but still the same total of bandwidth for all processes running at the same time on a multi core chip).
This is perfect for systems running lots of tasks in parallel, and is the default mode on most BIOSes I've seen.
This gives a tremendous boost to heavily multi-tasked applications (a busy database server, for example), and it's what TFA's author are looking for.
Probably that at some point in the future, Intel will follow the same trend with its QPI processors.
Also, the future trend is to multiply the memory channels on the CPU: Intel has already planned Triple Channel DDR-3 for their high-end server Xeons (the first crop of QPI chips). AMD has announced 4 memory channels for their future 6- and 12- core chips targeting the G34 socket.
So the net effect of Unganged Dual Channel is that today you already have 4 cores having a choice of 2 sets of memory lanes to choose among, and within 1 year, you'll have 6-to-12 cores sharing 4 sets of memory lanes.
By the time you reach 32 cores on CPU, probably that almost each slot will have its own dedicated memory channel (probably with the help of some technology which communicates serially with fewer lines, like FB-DIMM). Or even weirder memory interfaces (who knows ? maybe DDR-6 will be able to give several simultaneous access to the same memory module).
So, well, once again, it proves that running stupid simulations without taking into account that other technologies will improves beside the number of cores* yields stupid non realistic results.
Shame on TFA's Author, because the trends to increase bandwith have already started. I little bit more background research would have avoided this kind of stupidity.
But on the other hand, they would have missed the opportunity to publish an alarmist article with an eye catching title.
--
*: Although, yes, the number of cores you can slap inside the same package seems to be the "new megahertz" in the manufacturers' race, with some like Intel trying to increase this number faster without putting so much efforts on the rest.
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The phrase "By logical extension" is just another way of saying "This is a straw man argument"
I believe that the point he was making was not that it's pointless to go beyond X86 hardware, but that it's more cost-effective to use consumer hardware. Consumer hardware is not necessarily X86 hardware. See IBM's Roadrunner, presently the fastest supercomputer in the world, which uses an advanced version of the PS3's processor (the PowerXCell 8i).
In time, we'll probably see demand in consumer hardware for breaking past the boundaries and bottlenecks of multi-core processing, and so supercomputers will follow.
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