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Brand Names Take On Generics In PSU Showdown
The Raindog writes "The power supply is perhaps the most overlooked element of a modern PC, and yet it's the one component that can irreparably damage the rest of a system. The market is littered with generic PSUs that are often much cheaper than name-brand alternatives, but can you trust them? The Tech Report aims to find out in its latest power supply round-up, which compares the performance, efficiency, and noise levels of a collection of reputable PSUs with some budget, no-name competition. As it turns out, any money you save on a generic PSU purchase will likely cost you more in the long run."
I have owned several HP/Compaq machines and NEVER have lost a PSU. And all of the ones I have built myself with parts (Antec) have had a PSU fail multiple times...
I'm genuinely curious, what parts are different or better in a more expensive PSU? Or is it just a combination of confirmation bias and shelling out too many bucks to say it's not worth it? Not really an accusation, I'm more curious about what parts in a PSU can be "better", considering all the parts are mass manufactured, anyway.
I have literally 6 dead Antec PSUs in my closet, all were refused any sort of replacement, and all have obviously bulging capacitors. Several of them also took out several sticks of RAM, 2 motherboards, and a hard drive, spread across various computers of my own and friends. All of the computers with Antec PSUs (purchased all from newegg.com over ~5 years) eventually stopped turning on reliably, starting making funny squealing noises from the PSU, and/or starting crashing randomly. All of the Antec PSUs have been replaced with Seasonic now, and no computer has has a single hardware problem since its PSU was replaced (and in some cases, other hardware which was replaced at the same time as listed above).
...As it turns out, any money you save on a generic PSU purchase will likely cost you more in the long run..."
To such statements, I say "Ohh puhleeze!" I use generic power supplies for all my PCs, which I never switch off by the way. Apart from increased noise after about 3 years of constant humming, I have no complaints for a product that costs me about 18 dollars.
I heard Google uses the same stuff too.
Right. Bose is one of the best brands of speakers, and neon lights make your computer go faster. Sorry, but Antec is all marketing and no quality. All the ricer overclockers want to believe that Antec PSUs make their computers +0.2% faster, but the truth is, Antec uses some of the lowest quality parts in their PSUs and if you check something like badcaps.net, you'll realize that Antec is one of the most commonly reported brands in the PSU category, and most widely complained about brand in the forums.
Really? Most reviews of their PSUs have them with pretty good ratings, and their PSUs are pretty power efficient too. I have their EarthWatts 500 PSU and it's really good, my GPU technically requires 550W but it's fine. I've never heard of any bad things about Antec before, the worst ones are the ones from Best Buy et al that have some random company you've never heard of.
All your base are belong to Wii.
Except, of course, for the Antec EarthWatts. And the TruePower series. Both of which are... made by Seasonic.
So if the difference in the price of the capacitors is slight, then where does the large difference in the price of the PSU come from?
Taking an old 300 watt atx power supply apart to make a variable 0-5v and 0-12v bench power supply for electronics projects will teach you what you will need to know about quality of components if you have a decent DMM, or better a USB scope to see the difference when you switch out caps and other components. An often overlooked problem with cheap power supplies is that bad soldering and cheap PCBs cause the capacitors to work harder to move the same amount of charge. This effects voltage as it relates to capacitance's formula C = Q/V and its integral (dammit give me MathML) sigh read Wikipedia's definition. Doesn't matter how good your caps are if the circuit was soldered by someone being paid slave wages working 14 hour shifts. The real cost of the plenitude of cheap electronics is going to be an interesting story. Besides the obvious horrors of the places of manufacture in Asia and the dumping grounds in Africa where similar autoimmune disorders, cancers and genetic abnormalities are rampant is the story of what happens between those two places. It is not just the disposable aspect that technology plays in our culture that fascinates me but how little knowledge of the design and manufacture of technology is present in the people that purchase it, sell it or even repair it. PC techs without any electronics understanding are the worse, "Who needs an anti-static work area when I can use any flat surface including a pizza box?" and than wonder why they have half a dozen motherboards laying around the house that won't work. /rant
If I have the time before Xmas I will post my pics and schematics on my blog. Did it for an EE project. Working on LCDs and circuitry to display voltage and amperage (currently have 4 lobotomized dmm pcb w/ attached backlit lcd doing a reading each.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Where would one get a European version of that?
As a PC repairman I have run into the Bestec brand a few times, even built a few machine with them, and I can tell you it ain't the brand, although they are cheap and I tend not to use them(they have lousy fans if they even bother to have a fan at all) except in the occasional "granny" machines that are only doing basic web stuff. I can tell you the problem with both the HP and the eMachine you describe, because I have ran into it in the shop, and the problem is this:
For awhile there both HP and eMachine would put in VASTLY underpowered PSUs in their machines, which would naturally strain the living hell out of the PSU and cause it to blow, taking out the PC with it in many cases. I have actually seen fairly modern machines from HP and eMachine(a few years maybe 3 old) that had a Bestec PSU with a MAX rating of 200 watts! for any modern machine that is simply unacceptable. And woe be to anyone that actually tried to upgrade anything in one of those machines without yanking the PSU first, because with that little headroom it was bye bye PC.
As I put in an earlier post with the cheap PSUs you need to have at LEAST 150 watts of headroom ABOVE what you machine uses under max load. For example when my PC used 300 watts max ( figured using a calc like this) I used a 450 watt cheapo(NOT Bestec because I require a fan in my PC) and when I upgraded my PC and its power usage went to 350 I changed it out for a 550 watt PSU. So don't really blame Bestec. I have used them in a few ultra low power HTPC and ultra quiet desktops and they still work fine. Blame HP and eMachine for building a PC that used 200 watts and putting a 200 watt PSU in it instead of spending an extra dollar and getting one with a little more juice. That IMHO is the big difference between the cheapos and the big brands, with the cheapos you really need a LOT more headroom IMHO than you do with the big brands. But of course YMMV and everyone seems to have preferences when it comes to PC parts.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I think most problems would be with older equipment made in the days when both the US and the EU countries were trying to make inroads in the Chinese suppliers. For a time the certification bodies seemed to go a little crazy and let the Chinese get away with murder because they all wanted to be the primary Chinese certification body. One of the best incidents I remember was an auditor going around a Chinese plant with ISO 9002 certification. All the documentation was there, all the procedures written up. In English. And no-one in the entire factory spoke English. I doubt this is the case with electricals any more.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
The main things you'll see in a high end PSU:
1) Voltage stabilizing in case the power coming to the PSU is not very good
2) Quieter fans
3) Output voltage/watts and efficiency stay within reason at higher load
4) Some generic heat up quite a bit.
Don't forget power factor correction (PFC). Especially in a datacenter.
Research and development is costly, to find out which components are good. Additionally, each part in the supply chain adds their profit margin to the product, so adding value in the early levels of the supply chain (as in manufacturing) can easily add a significant amount of cost to the end price.
Except, of course, for the Antec EarthWatts. And the TruePower series. Both of which are... made by Seasonic.
Not entirely true.
The older EarthWatts were made by Seasonic, the newer ones are made by Delta.
Source: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=110
I definitely agree with the last part
"As it turns out, any money you save on a generic PSU purchase will likely cost you more in the long run."
On my last creation I had to change PSU three times because the cheap one failed, the store wasn't too happy when I got in for the third time and asked for a refund. I ended up with a Corsair PSU. It was much quieter and I havent had any PSU related problems ever since.
Uhm. Maybe they're knock-off PSUs just labelled Antec. Seriously, I've never had an issue with antec supplies. I get nesteq or zalman ones now because of quiet-pc-addiction, but never had an issue with antec.
It will even transfer the measurements to a SD card. It comes with a English text. manual. Continental Europe socket.
Voltcraft ENERGY LOGGER 3500
If you search for this stuff in amazon.de you will find one that claims to have ranked 2nd in a German magazine testing of energy measuring devices. This is the new version of the one who got first.
I have no relation to this shop, or manufacturer, I just love the gadget.
After you had 2-3 fail why did you buy 3-4 more?
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
It looks like most UPSes make systems *less* reliable on balance. How frequent is a power failure compared to a UPS failure?
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
Among other things granted to the Chinese during the Clinton administration was the relaxation of having to meet FCC part 15 subpart B for electronics. Some Chinese power supplies put out tremendous amounts of RF all across the spectrum. Might check that too if you are having problems with radio reception. When I can get them I always buy Taiwan made power supplies because #1 they are better engineered and built, and #2 they do not radiate RF. They have to meet the RF emissions requirements. So far I've had a large failure rate of Chinese power supplies because of being under engineered and the poorly made components. Electronics are like everything else being made in China today. They cut corners and mismanage and put out crap clothes, electronics, baby food, pet food, toys, medicines, and every body just keeps letting them get by with it. Most of my Chinese made shirts don't come with pockets anymore, the thread count of the cloth is lower, the sewing thread is smaller diameter and of poorer quality. The seams are sewn right up against the edges so they rip out in the washing machine and buttons disappear after a few washings too. And if you take medicines ask your pharmacist what the country of origin is. It might surprise the hell out of you. Almost everything I take now (blood pressure and kidney meds) are made in India. That scares the bejesus out of me too but not nearly as much as Chinese made meds.
Too lazy to create a sig...