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Water Detected At Record Distance From Earth

Matt_dk writes with news that scientists have detected water in a galaxy 11.5 billion light-years from Earth. Evidence came in the form of emissions from water masers around a quasar at the center of the galaxy. Detection at such a large distance was made possible by a closer, intervening galaxy which acted as a gravitational lens. "'We were only able to discover this distant water with the help of the gravitational lens,' said Violette Impellizzeri, an astronomer with the Max-Planck Institute for Radioastronomy (MPIfR) in Bonn, Germany. 'This cosmic telescope reduced the amount of time needed to detect the water by a factor of about 1,000,' she added. The astronomers first detected the water signal with the Effelsberg telescope. They then turned to the VLA's sharper imaging capability to confirm that it was indeed coming from the distant galaxy. The gravitational lens produces not one, but four images of MG J0414+0534 as seen from Earth. Using the VLA, the scientists found the specific frequency attributable to the water masers in the two brightest of the four lensed images. The other two lensed images, they said, are too faint for detecting the water signal. The radio frequency emitted by the water molecules was Doppler shifted by the expansion of the Universe from 22.2 GHz to 6.1 GHz."

13 of 104 comments (clear)

  1. Water means life? by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We try to think about life as it may exist outside of our planet and solar system, but we always run into the problem of defining the term life. Because of our limited understanding, we search for pockets of water, which ought to at least provide a certain frame of reference close to our own in which we could find something that resembles life as we know it.

    But we may also be overlooking life that we just don't understand and haven't the means to detect yet. Life as a system of planets, taking millenia to process a single thought. Life as rapidly integrating and disintegrating iron meshes on the surface of stars, communicating electrically and going through thousands of generations in seconds.

    Finding water at these distances isn't so much the search for alternate worlds to habitate when we lose our Earth, it is much more a search for life similar to ours. But perhaps, I wonder, we are missing a whole range of other life in the universe due to our lack of capacity to imagine other types of life.

    1. Re:Water means life? by wideBlueSkies · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Anything is possible.

      In very broad terms I'd guess that the folks looking for life would be starting with a baseline of what we know today..or at least what can be extrapolated from what we know today.

      I'm not a PhD, or a scientist by any means. Just a simple software developer. But having a logical thought process I know that in an investigation, you need to start somewhere. And that somewhere is with us, and how we exist.

       

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    2. Re:Water means life? by bradbury · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The points here are valid. Robert Freitas wrote a book (Xenology) nearly 30 years ago which explored how other life forms might develop and evolve. I am sure that an even more expansive discussion on the topic could be written now. The "water" phase period for intelligent life forms may well vary, but it is not a requirement for non-water based start-ups (covered in Xenology) or post-water based existences, e.g. Dyson shells or their more sophisticated derivatives (Matrioshka Brains).

      It is a shame that current physicists are using valuable resources to search for "life" within such a limited framework. When we have available concepts of non-water-staged life and post-water-staged life upon which we can draw. It can even be argued that the "water-state" basis of life is a minimal state in the Universe. (Given that Matrioshka Brains have lifetimes that may exceed even those of stars.)

    3. Re:Water means life? by Smauler · · Score: 2

      All ideas about non-water based life is pure speculation. There is absolutely 0 evidence for it. Water based life is fact. The very fact that we cannot produce life in a lab ourselves kind of precludes us from speculating with any authority in which environments life could be created, I think. All we know is that it can be created in water... that's why we focus on water.

    4. Re:Water means life? by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can surmise a lot about what's possible elsewhere by what's possible here. Unless there's some other periodic table when you get far enough away, there's not much you can do without carbon. No other element has its propensity to share electrons instead of stealing them; molecules composed of other atoms (like silicon, the most plausible replacement) don't get very complex before they start falling apart. And we see interstellar spectra of complex molecules with C-C and C=C bonds everywhere.

      Water may or may not be essential but its ubiquity probably renders the question moot. Its only real competitor is ammonia, but ammonia is a liquid at such low temperatures that biochemical reactions would be reduced to an absolute crawl.

    5. Re:Water means life? by beh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Two issues here - looking for water is a good thing because we KNOW that water is important for a whole lot of lifeforms that we happen to know (i.e. all life on earth).

      What we do NOT know is whether a planet with water will automatically 'produce' life in some form or other.

      Separately, we do not know, whether other chemical compounds can also give rise to life - but in that case, life that isn't based on water and light - both of which are important to the human existence.

      Your 'science-wankery' aside - up to a few years back, we thought we 'knew' that life needs both light and water - because all life on earth that we knew about needed both. We also 'knew' that a temperate climate is important for life...

      Strangely enough, since then, mankind has found life near hydrothermal vents in deep sea that defy our picture of what's needed - there's still water around, but it's very very sulfurous - too much so for our tastes (or even our survival) and these are too deep to get any light at all.

      The fact these creatures are just 'worms' and 'crabs' doesn't automatically preclude evolution to sentient beings further down the line either, because we simply do not know when and how sentience forms...

      Science can help us explain certain things that we observe, and can help us speculate about things we have not (yet) observed - but simply saying 'anything but light and ph-neutral water and a limit temperature span precludes life' isn't more than unfounded rants against SF either - science fiction can't prove the existence of say 'silicon' based creatures or gas based creatures, but science can't 'prove' they're absolutely impossible either. The only thing it can do is rule out that certain combinations of it aren't 'alive' (e.g. just a block of pure iron with nothing else, isn't alive - I would tend to think that is likely a universal truth; but, heck, depending on what combinations of materials will come together in whatever circumstances that we just haven't witnessed in our solar system)

  2. Re:Get some priorities! by seededfury · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Filthy, barbaric Christians and Muslims are killing good, honest Humans right here on this planet, and all you can think about is water being found billions of miles away? Get some priorities!

    Fixed that for you asshole.

  3. Re:Get some priorities! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Idiot, if we don't find new sources of water how are we supposed to continue the waterboarding?

  4. Radio Telescope Effelsberg by lazynomer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You might wonder why TFA calls a 100m-radio telescope 'giant'. That's because the radio telescope Effelsberg is fully steerable and was/nearly is the largest such telescope.

    It's also a pretty cool sight when you drive through this quaint hilly region and suddenly come across this friggin' huge satellite dish. (Pic in German version of article gives better overview.)

  5. It's about time... by senor+mouse · · Score: 2, Funny

    So the water was there 11.5 billion years ago, right? I wonder if any of it, like, evaporated and stuff?

  6. Re:Meh by pohl · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wake me up when they detect booz.

    Pssst....hey...wake up!.

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  7. Spurious argumenting by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And if they find some phosphoric acid in there, too, we'll get to hear that there be aliens because they already have Cola.

    Water may be a necessity for life (at least the kind we know about), but it is no sign whatsoever that there is any. And at that distance, it doesn't matter for us either because we can't even get people to the next planet in our solar system, much less to the next solar system in our galaxy, so looking at water in some far away galaxy is pretty pointless.

    Let's try to focus here, people. Let's get to Mars. Get something going there. And work from there. There's little use in looking for far away water when we can't even use the one that's just around the corner, universally speaking.

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  8. Re:Get some priorities! by Samah · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Filthy, barbaric Humans are killing good, honest Humans right here on this planet, and all you can think about is water being found billions of miles away? Get some priorities!

    Fixed again. People of other faiths (and those with none) are just as guilty. Violence and barbarism are human nature, despite best intentions.

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