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Crackpot Scandal In Mathematics

ocean_soul writes "It is well known among scientists that the impact factor of a scientific journal is not always a good indicator of the quality of the papers in the journal. An extreme example of this was recently uncovered in mathematics. The scandal is about one El Naschie, editor in chief of the 'scientific' journal Chaos, Solitons and Fractals, published by Elsevier. This is one of the highest impact factor journals in mathematics, but the quality of the papers in it is extremely poor. The journal has also published 322 papers with El Naschie as (co-)author, five of them in the latest issue. Like many crackpots, El Nashie has a kind of cult around him, with another journal devoted to praising his greatness. There was also a discussion about the Wikipedia entry for El Naschie, which was supposedly written by one of his followers. When it was deleted by Wikipedia, they even threatened legal actions (which never materialized)."

219 comments

  1. I don't get it by tsstahl · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In the immortal words of Tom Hanks, I don't get it.

    If the guy is a well known crackpot, what harm is happening? Obviously, I am not a citizen of this sub-world and could use the enlightenment.

    1. Re:I don't get it by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The harm, I think, is that he's not a well-enough-known crackpot; a respectable publisher (Elsevier) has given him a journal as his own private playground. This makes it more difficult for non-crackpots trying to enter the field (e.g. grad students) to sort the wheat from the chaff. It also allows other crackpots to come off as more credible by citing crackpot articles which have a veneer of respectability. Imagine if a computer science "journal" based on Hollywood's portrayal of how computers work were being published by the ACM, and you have some idea of how big a problem this is.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    2. Re:I don't get it by ocean_soul · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In fact, the crackpotness of El Nachies' papers is obvious even to most grad students (you should read some, they are in fact rather funny). The bigger problem is that, by repeatedly citing his own articles, his journal gets a high impact factor. People who have absolutely no clue about math, like the ones who decide on the funding, conclude from the high impact factor that the papers in this journal must be of high quality.

    3. Re:I don't get it by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 1

      Imagine if a computer science "journal" based on Hollywood's portrayal of how computers work were being published by the ACM, and you have some idea of how big a problem this is.

      Hmm... so you're saying majority of the CS papers out there -don't- do this?

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

    4. Re:I don't get it by tsstahl · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Thank you. That really does help and without a car analogy, to boot.

      Acadamia never ceases to amaze me. Note, spelled wrong on purpose BECAUSE OF ALL THE NUTS!

    5. Re:I don't get it by jcarkeys · · Score: 1

      Ok, so it destroys the credibility of the journal, as well as the credibility of any papers coauthored by this individual, and destroys the credibility of anyone who decided that getting published (by allowing El Naschie to get his name on the paper) was more important than academic rigor. I don't see the long term, lasting harm.

    6. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But isn't the purpose of the ACM to make computers work more like Hollywood says they do?

    7. Re:I don't get it by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh, snap!

      Seriously? There's a lot of high-quality CS research out there in the journals and conference papers; of course there's also a lot of crap. But I'd say most of the crap comes from wishful thinking rather than pure crackpottery. If nothing else, if you try to implement something that doesn't work, you'll know immediately -- thus CS at least potentially has a built-in reality check that pure math lacks. I rather suspect that whether or not a CS journal demands working code from its authors is a strong predictor for the quality of the articles which appear in that journal.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    8. Re:I don't get it by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Glad to be of service.

      You realize, of course, that the only reason I was able to use a computer analogy is that we're talking about pure math. If we had been talking about CS, I'd have had to go with a car analogy right off the bat.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    9. Re:I don't get it by timholman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The harm, I think, is that he's not a well-enough-known crackpot; a respectable publisher (Elsevier) has given him a journal as his own private playground. This makes it more difficult for non-crackpots trying to enter the field (e.g. grad students) to sort the wheat from the chaff. It also allows other crackpots to come off as more credible by citing crackpot articles which have a veneer of respectability. Imagine if a computer science "journal" based on Hollywood's portrayal of how computers work were being published by the ACM, and you have some idea of how big a problem this is.

      And it gets worse when money becomes involved. Pseudoscientists and crackpots often try to find "investors" for their schemes, and even a layman who performs due diligence can be fooled when publishers like Elsevier become enablers for pseudoscience. When the paper shows up in an INSPEC or Web of Science search, how is the person being scammed supposed to know that the paper isn't really legitimate?

      Many "free energy" scam artists already have patents for their nonsensical inventions, thanks to the laxity of the USPTO. It'll get worse unless these "pseudo-journals" are exposed and publicized to the greater science and engineering community, as well as the public at large. I had never heard of El Naschie before today, because I'm not a mathematician; thanks to this article, more people like me will now keep an eye out for his future "work".

    10. Re:I don't get it by BitZtream · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Much like anyone with a working knowledge of CS probably has the ability to verify the CS research, math is a rather logical science which is often pretty easy to verify. Sure sure, there are things that are hard to confirm based on the amount of calculations that must be performed and irrational numbers and all that (infinity is a bitch to test), but those things exist in CS as well.

      Its silly to some how imply they are vastly different from each other, they are in fact almost identical to each other.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    11. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know. I don't understand the summary. I mean... I am a CS student and it isn't rare for me to see summaries and articles about some areas of physics that I don't have much knowledge of. But then I know "Well, this is news about new discoveries about the nature of light and useful in proving that the earth is flat. I don't need to know much more about that.".

      But this summary? Seems like a ramblings of a madman to me. Apparently someone has felt important to state that some publisher of math related papers isn't very good at what he does? Why is this important? Who states that? Is this relevant to anyone but math students? Or even them? I could check TFA but alas, there is no TFA.

      I'm at loss.

    12. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Azebo

      Ulbous bouffant.

    13. Re:I don't get it by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 1

      Ah, so his math is wrong, and because the point of a peer-reviewed journal is being missed, the bad papers continue with being consider correct.

      That's pretty crapulous.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    14. Re:I don't get it by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Researchers in just about every field build on layers of other researchers' work. There simply isn't time to go back and verify every result in the reference tree of every article you site -- if you did that, you'd never get any original work done! Creating code that compiles and executes properly doesn't guarantee that everything you've based that code on is correct, of course, but it's a good sign. I'm not aware of any equivalent reality check in pure math. Now, I know relatively little about the field (applied CS and statistics is my game, specifically bioinformatics) so I'll happily accept a correction on this point.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    15. Re:I don't get it by Gena5m · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      IOW it works like a Middle East Peace Process or Global Warming religion, the difference being in a number of crackpots pushing it. Here it is 1+. Stopping this early minimizes crowd effect with all its collateral damage.

    16. Re:I don't get it by dujenwook · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yea, I read through a bit of the cited paper and got a few good laughs out of it. Maybe he's being published more for the humorous aspect of it all than for the actual information.

    17. Re:I don't get it by canajin56 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Perhaps it's an experiment: He's a mathematician. Now he's just demonstrating how the Impact Factor is a poor metric, and will soon present a superior measure that correctly ranks the journal poorly. ;)

      --
      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
    18. Re:I don't get it by nategoose · · Score: 1

      The low quality of his papers was obvious to me, and I only have a minor in Math. Even though I never read any until just now so I was looking for crack pottedness, I actually wondered if El Nachie may have incurred a brain injury or something. The presentation is pretty poor by academic standards.

    19. Re:I don't get it by slawekk · · Score: 1

      CS at least potentially has a built-in reality check that pure math lacks.

      There is such check: writing proofs in a formal proof language so that they can be verified by a machine. This is a barrier high enough that no crackpot can jump over it. Too bad math departments don't teach formal proof langauges.

    20. Re:I don't get it by eh2o · · Score: 1

      I thought self-citations don't count for impact-factor ratings... if they are then it seems like a fairly obvious solution to the problem.

    21. Re:I don't get it by Goaway · · Score: 1

      Acadamia never ceases to amaze me. Note, spelled wrong on purpose BECAUSE OF ALL THE NUTS!

      That could be a funny joke, but you really need to work on your delivery.

    22. Re:I don't get it by sdpuppy · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      OK, so perhaps you need a Slashdot analogy, and I'll keep it short and sweet.

      On Slashdot, if you feed the trolls, it only encourages them and it encourages them to reproduce (you get copycats).

      Wow, my first analogy on Slashdot without a car involved...

    23. Re:I don't get it by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 1

      Time for a duel between El Nachies and SCIgen?

    24. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone makes a metric (IF). Someone else games the system (Elsevier, and El Naschie).

      Let those who buy these journals stop buying them.
      If they even care, really.

      It sounds to me like a number of scientists are dismayed that Elsevier publishes this "crap". But they also publish a "homeopathy journal".

      Maybe they also publish a "paranormal research" journal: "Ectoplasm: Recent Findings".

      WP/toronto

    25. Re:I don't get it by __aasqbs9791 · · Score: 1

      I read this article earlier today about Ponzi, and after a major paper pointed out the lies he actually made more money that day! Some people just don't deserve to have money I guess. I mean, what can you do? You try to teach them why someone's wrong (and can't possibly be right) and they just refuse to listen. http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/12/23/mf.ponzi.scheme/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

    26. Re:I don't get it by msouth · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it's an experiment: He's a mathematician. Now he's just demonstrating how the Impact Factor is a poor metric, and will soon present a superior measure that correctly ranks the journal poorly. ;)

      And another article on the problem of where to publish the article describing that measure.

      --
      Liberty uber alles.
    27. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well the character of El Naschie gets a lot more fleshed out in the sequels: Differential, and Once upon a time in 4-Manifold. It also helps if you lather the publication in cheese and guacamole.

    28. Re:I don't get it by msouth · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      The harm, I think, is that it's not a well-enough-known crackpot theory; a respectable publisher (NY Times et al) has given him a plethora of journalists as his own private fan club. This makes it more difficult for the electorate trying to intelligently guide policy (e.g. moveon.org) to sort the wheat from the chaff. It also allows other crackpots to come off as more credible by citing crackpot articles which have a veneer of respectability. Imagine if a "documentary" based on Hollywood's belief about global warming were being played off as if it were real science by the media, and you have some idea of how big a problem this is.

      There, fixed that for ya.

      --
      Liberty uber alles.
    29. Re:I don't get it by timeOday · · Score: 1

      The bigger problem is that, by repeatedly citing his own articles, his journal gets a high impact factor.

      Since google similarly uses links to pages to compute their pagerank, they combat this problem constantly. People do all kinds of stuff, from buying or swiping the registration of a reputable domain name, to posting spam on forums hosted at .gov domains, to setting up complicated interwoven sets of cross-linking domains to fake "grass-roots" popularity.

      It would be great if google could reveal more of their techniques and they could be applied to boost the validity of scientific publications' impact factor. Or maybe we should just rank scientists by the google pagerank of their papers :)

    30. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I rather suspect that whether or not a CS journal demands working code from its authors is a strong predictor for the quality of the articles which appear in that journal.

      Not really. Paperware is quite common.

    31. Re:I don't get it by gishzida · · Score: 1

      So Mathematicians design castles in the air, and Engineers attempt to build them.

    32. Re:I don't get it by king-hobo · · Score: 0

      Imagine if a computer science "journal" based on Hollywood's portrayal of how computers work were being published by the ACM, and you have some idea of how big a problem this is.

      oh dear god, it reminds me of the time a friend of mine though he could "hack" because he saw the movie "the net", which as a side note has Sandra Bullock as the hacker

    33. Re:I don't get it by retchdog · · Score: 1

      Well, they're not really considered correct as such. You see, no one actually reads papers anymore.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    34. Re:I don't get it by Frans+Faase · · Score: 1

      Also in computer science there are groups of authors who only write in their 'own' journals and attent their 'own' conferences. Look up the subject of 'method engineering' and you will find a whole field of 'Computer science' with high crackpotness.

    35. Re:I don't get it by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1

      > CS at least potentially has a built-in reality check that pure math lacks

      The truth is that in many parts of CS it's easy to publish a tissue of lies because there is no policy of publishing source code with algorithms, you just publish timings for the one case that worked and graphs of the output for the trivial case that nobody else cares about. (I'm sure lots of people in graphics will be nodding their heads at this right now...) Mathematicians, on the other hand, are expected to provide proofs, and reviewers actually check those proofs (really! they actually check them! it's not at all like CS were someone goes "oh, that's plausible" and lets it go), unless you can find a crackpot journal like El Naschie's.

      --
      Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
    36. Re:I don't get it by jman11 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you're over estimating the problem here. Sure every researcher doesn't go through every step of every proof. However a lot of researchers go through a lot of the steps (and previously went through the intermediate steps) and a few researchers go through them all.

      Sanity is preserved by writing the proof down in a way that people can understand. Otherwise research papers in mathematics would all be about 5 lines long.

      The sanity check provided by successful compilation is a lot less meaningful. It merely says the syntax of the code is correct, nothing more.

    37. Re:I don't get it by jman11 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Formal proof languages cannot proof anything like what is proven in modern mathematics.

      Formal proofs are a bit of fun for the CS people to play with but nowhere near able to handle genuine problems in mathematics.

      It's like trying to describe to someone a book by describing which pixels are black and white on the page. Sure it can be done, but it's going to look like gibberish and give no useful picture until someone puts the pixels together to make the page.

    38. Re:I don't get it by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "I rather suspect that whether or not a CS journal demands working code from its authors is a strong predictor for the quality of the articles which appear in that journal."

      Your suspision is unfounded, for example how does one create working code to demonstrate the halting problem?

      "If nothing else, if you try to implement something that doesn't work, you'll know immediately"

      The only thing you will "know immediately" is that your code doesn't work and you will now have your own version of the halting problem (ie: when do you stop looking for coding bugs and start looking for concept bugs). The code is simply a transform of the algorithim into a specific language on specific hardware. It's also quite possible to come up with a algorithims that requires an imaginary type of hardware to implement and thus cannot be transformed into code (eg: quantum computer).

      "CS at least potentially has a built-in reality check that pure math lacks."

      CS is a branch of mathematics, what on earth makes you think pure maths doesn't have a "reality check"?

      Disclaimer: BSc with majors in CS and OR.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    39. Re:I don't get it by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 1

      So basically he's found a way to Googlebomb his own reputation. Hardly new.

      --
      Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
    40. Re:I don't get it by droopycom · · Score: 1

      So, he is good at gaming the "pagerank" of the scientific community.

      Maybe we should let Google recalculate the Impact Factor and come up with a better formula.

    41. Re:I don't get it by adavies42 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps some English major is attempting a reverse Sokal hoax....

      --
      Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
      -kfg
    42. Re:I don't get it by 50000BTU_barbecue · · Score: 1

      I think part of the problem is that publishers charge OUTRAGEOUS amounts to subscribe to these journals yet expect scientists to publish for free. Furthermore, these "respectable" publishers bundle their journals, so if you want one, you gotta get all twenty. And there's starting to be a revolt in the science world and one way to start it is to show how full of crap some of these journals are.

      --
      Mostly random stuff.
    43. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Internal consistency is the main check in pure mathematics.

    44. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People who have absolutely no clue about math, like the ones who decide on the funding, conclude from the high impact factor that the papers in this journal must be of high quality.

      I feel it's important to distinguish between "crackpot" and "fraud".

      I love a researcher who believes in himself beyond delusion. Crackpots can be interesting, and will often stumble onto new ideas by intuition and luck.

      (Most people think L. Ron Hubbard was a fraud. No, he was a respectable crackpot in my opinion.)

    45. Re:I don't get it by DamnStupidElf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Look up metamath, coq, and mizar. I suppose your definition of "genuine" problems may influence your opinion of these projects. coq was recently used to verify a completely formal proof of the four coloring problem, which I would classify as a genuine mathematical problem considering that no traditional proof has yet been found.

    46. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pssst, math isn't science.

    47. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Most people think L. Ron Hubbard was a fraud. No, he was a respectable crackpot in my opinion.)

      No, before Scientology, Hubbard had all sorts of out and out scams including the 'yacht deal' that cleaned out JPL founder John Parsons' life savings.

      Well known sci-fi authors made it their purpose to keep track of Hubbard after he burned them all with a 'crippled veteran' con routine. Letters from authors including Isaac Asimov survive to document just how low Hubbard had fallen in the sci-fi community before Scientology was even a twinkle in his eye.

      Do a little reading, there are books out there dealing with Hubbard before Scientology.

    48. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Imagine if a computer science "journal" based on Hollywood's portrayal of how computers work were being published by the ACM, and you have some idea of how big a problem this is.."

      Yeah, I would love to take a second to imagine that, but I have to hack the Gibson and bang Angelina Jolie who is apparently an easy good time for 1337 hacker-types like me, so...

      you go ahead and imagine it for me.

    49. Re:I don't get it by hardburn · · Score: 1

      "Is a false statement" is a false statement. Now go prove it.

      --
      Not a typewriter
    50. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When is money not involved? To get grant money you have to show you are a published author. To do good research you need the time purchased with money. This is a chicken and the egg type problem. I am sure the articles will improve once he can get the grant money to fund many talented graduate students.

      The USPTO stopped taking perpetual motion patent applications until the device runs for 1 year unassisted.

    51. Re:I don't get it by Illserve · · Score: 1

      Actually,it can take researchers YEARS to debug a very complex proof of something like the Riemann hypothesis. To begin to understand the proof, even a Riemann scholar might need to first learn entire fields of mathematics.

      I've heard it said of de Branges at Purdue that there are few people capable or willing to confirm his work because of the difficulty involved.

    52. Re:I don't get it by ErkDemon · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Well, there's been some research suggesting that some authors may not necessarily have bothered reading all of the material that they cite. It's easy to cut and paste items from the citation list of an earlier peer-reviewed paper, and just assume that the contents of those papers are what the earlier author has said.

      I guess that the way to test this would be to get a non-existent paper listed in Physics Abstracts, and cited in one or two major papers, and then see how many subsequent papers simply add the citation to their own list.

    53. Re:I don't get it by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      There simply isn't time to go back and verify every result in the reference tree of every article you site -- if you did that, you'd never get any original work done!

      That's what those 7-10 years of study you did are for. By the time you reach the cutting edge of research, you had plenty of time to take courses on all relevant fields and learn every important result that gets used. If you try to contribute to the cutting edge without knowing 95% or more of the results referenced in a typical paper on your topic, then I would say you probably aren't qualified to contribute.

      Research isn't about writing any old thing that comes to mind as long as it's original, research is about understanding what others are working on and trying to say something meaningful and relevant that advances knowledge.

    54. Re:I don't get it by euri.ca · · Score: 1

      And it's there that the El Naschie papers fail. Most of the sections quoted by that article fail to adhere to basic standards like "explain the appearance of all magic numbers":

      He then suggests quitting at the second stage of this iteration and getting
      "2×2×17=68"
      of something -- but it's not clear what, nor why the number 2×2×17 should show up.
      But never mind! He then notes that 68 is
      "1/2(1371), where again 137 is a rough approximation to the reciprocal of the fine structure constant. "
      Of course, can always find some formula linking any two numbers, and the possible meaning of this formula linking the numbers 137 and 68 is not discussed.

    55. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait... since when to mathematicians perform experiments?

    56. Re:I don't get it by Ian+Alexander · · Score: 2, Funny

      I would actually say it's not a statement at all. It's a predicate longing for a subject. :)

    57. Re:I don't get it by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Maybe Dr Nachos is just ahead of his time, like Einstein or L Ron Hubbard were.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    58. Re:I don't get it by jman11 · · Score: 1

      One result in combinatorics and you're done? One interesting result that was originally proven by enumerating all cases.

      It's still a toy. One result in a field that is tailor made for computers to be able to handle. Give me a significant result over a closed field (i.e. contains upper bounds).

      Let's not discuss how useless the proof is. Unreadable by humans: there's no point. A proof gives an understanding of why a theorem is true, not just the knowledge it is true.

    59. Re:I don't get it by msouth · · Score: 1

      Actually there was a guy at one of the big think tanks (Bell Labs or something) that started reducing his arguments to really small steps, skipping nothing. He kind of set up subsets of the proof like subroutines, referring you to later pages to get the details, etc. He found that a lot of things he thought he had proven actually had holes in them. He went back and looked at his previous papers and found that some large fraction of them were wrong (I don't remember the number, something like 1/3). At first he thought that he had been fooling himself all along and that he was a terrible mathematician. Then he started applying the same analysis to other published work, and he found the same ratio.

      It wasn't that the results were necessarily wrong. In other words, what they were claiming might still be true. It was just that they hadn't proven it. There were holes in the places they had glossed over with a "clearly" or "we know from X that Y".

      Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the guy or find his paper now. (Look! I'm a crackpot!)

      Anyone else remember reading that?

      --
      Liberty uber alles.
    60. Re:I don't get it by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 1

      Imagine if a computer science "journal" based on Hollywood's portrayal of how computers work were being published by the ACM, and you have some idea of how big a problem this is.

      Perhaps then we'd finally be able to learn from Diane Lane how "totally untraceable" websites can still manage to get millions of hits and how to prevent FBI professionals from tracing a Best Buy RF wireless webcam from being traced back to its receptor (which clearly has to be within fifty yards)

    61. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The great thing about this is it is the prefect counterexample for those that think Wikipedia is unreliable and untrustworthy!!

    62. Re:I don't get it by slawekk · · Score: 1

      It's like trying to describe to someone a book by describing which pixels are black and white on the page.

      Very good analogy, thank you. This is what someone who knows only about printing press would say about impossibility of showing text on a computer screen - "imagine the work that would have to be done to split the image into pixels and then put them together so that they don't look like gibberish".

      Formal proofs are (...) nowhere near able to handle genuine problems in mathematics.

      If you really want you can always make this statement true by selecting the right definition of "genuine problems", for example defining genuine problems as those that have not been formalized yet. Otherwise you may want to check the list of top 100 of mathematical theorems to see which ones have proofs written in a formal proof language.

      Unreadable by humans: there's no point.

      Here you have a point. This proof is not designed to explain to a human why the theorem is true. It should not be called a proof, it should be called a verification script. But this is just an unfortunate choice of the language. There are other proof languages that are designed to be readable by humans.

    63. Re:I don't get it by Ckwop · · Score: 1

      Hold on a second. A theorem is code. You can write out a theorem as a set of inference rules operating on expressions. The chain of expressions eventually arrives at a given result with a given provable property.

      Before someone belches: "Halting problem." I very much doubt that the halting problem has any impact on our ability to do this. The theorems are designed by humans not algorithms, all the program does is check that the conclusion really does follow from the premise.

      What's to stop us creating an open source library of theorems based upon given sets of axioms that can be verified automatically with a theorem prover? Then the computer can verify a result, all the way from the basic assumptions of Peano's axioms to the dizzying heights of Fermat's last theorem in a fraction of a second.

      Think of it is the Test Driven Development of mathematics. It's not enough to just write the theorem and hope for the best, you have to actually show it works like you anticipated on computer before it can be published.

      We can fix the quality problem and I believe we can do so elegantly.

      Simon

    64. Re:I don't get it by msuarezalvarez · · Score: 1

      math is a rather logical science which is often pretty easy to verify

      You are clearly not familiar with leading-edge math. There are lots of papers published which are extremely difficult to check.

    65. Re:I don't get it by msuarezalvarez · · Score: 1

      Hold on a second. A theorem is code. You can write out a theorem as a set of inference rules operating on expressions. The chain of expressions eventually arrives at a given result with a given provable property.

      While in principle that can be done, that is not how humans write mathematics. Not even remotely similar. Take a look at, say, Perelman's papers on arXiv on the Poincare conjecture, for example.

    66. Re:I don't get it by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Why does Google fight so hard against page-rank "optimization"?

    67. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's Gazebo and Bolbous Bouffant.

    68. Re:I don't get it by simplerThanPossible · · Score: 1

      Many of the things that maths attempts to show cannot be shown in an implementation. For example, a proof that an algorithm works correctly for every possible regular expression, or for all words in a regular language (because it could be infinite, such as a*, which represents the language: {0, a, aa, aaa, aaaa, ... } ).

      Of course, working code can show that it works in some cases, and may act as a bar, much like writing the paper in the correct style for the journal.

      The other exciting alternative is to actually implement the proof itself - this can be done in a theorem proof assistant such as COQ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coq

    69. Re:I don't get it by AxelBoldt · · Score: 1

      I don't remember the article you mean, but I know that the Mizar project set out to formalize all proofs in detail, checked by machine.

    70. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Elsevier can be a crackpot. Here is one example.

      I worked at Elsevier and was handed out an end of year bonus to with an award letter. Then someone either complained that the bonus too large and it was retroactively changed downward (from 6000) even though it was awarded or someone didn't like the award. Another person then came along and took the award letter off my desk and replaced it with another bonus award letter several thousand less than before (2500). This is instead of handing out the correct amount the first time. Without the original there was no proof of the change. I never even discussed the award with anyone. They just changed the award instead of honoring it or tried to make it look like it was a mistake. The award letter was upside down on my desk and it was taken and replaced.

      Reed Elsevier sold Harcourt for 4 billion dollars and instead of using the sale of Harcourt to fund better salaries or hire better people the company cut back and outsourced hundreds of IT jobs. Elsevier then returned the 4 billion dollars in a special shareholder dividend.
      Reed Elsevier has been outsourcing the IT services corporate wide and instead of returning the 4 billion Elsevier could have used the money to go after Dow Jones or compete with Googe whereas now they have to outsource to compete since like BP they want as much profit as possible even if someone dies at a refinery.

      http://www.reed-elsevier.com/mediacentre/pressreleases/2007/Pages/SaleofHarcourttoHoughtonMifflin.aspx

      When the LexisNexis wanted to build a second data center Reed Elsevier was so cheap that they partnered with a non profit company to help fund it rather than paying for the redundant data center like Google does. Elsevier is a multi billion dollar company and LexisNexis had to ask a non profit for a handout to build the data center. Google is not afraid to spend several hundred million dollars on a data center. Elsevier also has fallen behind more entrepreneurial companies such as Google and it was really difficult working there since they don't really allow an engineer to innovate and architects control a lot of the decision making. It was really difficult working with all the bureaucracy unlike Google which encourages innovation there is no short term path for innovation at Elsevier you have to migrate a bunch of committees. Elsevier LexisNexis totally lost it with search engines and was ahead of the game before Yahoo and Lycos and Google and then did nothing to create an in house search product. Kudos to Andreozzi and Pardue.

      http://www.lexisnexis.com/about/releases/WRFDisasterRec.asp

      http://www.lexisnexis.com/about/releases/0720.asp

      http://www.holderconstruction.com/home.nsf/content/AboutHolderLexisNexisDataCenter

      The Turner Foundation:

      http://hmturnerfoundation.org/html/artlex.html

      Elsevier is a crackpot for allowing an editor to publish in his own journal.

  2. I get all my science from timecube.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yeah, you really have to be careful out there... that's why I get all my astronomy and mathematical insight (as well as web design hints) from http://www.timecube.com/
    And if it ain't there, then I just look it up on wikipedia

    1. Re:I get all my science from timecube.com by abigor · · Score: 1

      For everything else - history, geography, astronomy, you name it - just pop on over to http://www.truthism.com/.

    2. Re:I get all my science from timecube.com by sykes1024 · · Score: 1

      Space-time: it's not a continuum, it's more like a series of cubes.

    3. Re:I get all my science from timecube.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, it's called timecube because there are 4 corners of time? I thought cubes have 8 corners?

    4. Re:I get all my science from timecube.com by Svippy · · Score: 1

      Maybe it is just me, but I cannot comprehend what the hell the timecube is? Is he suggesting that the Earth is a cube?

      And looking at his HTML doesn't it make it better. I guess there is no sane escape!

      --
      Clicked pie.
    5. Re:I get all my science from timecube.com by hachete · · Score: 1

      "First and foremost, this website is not a hoax or joke"

      That's the warning there in BIG RED LIGHTS

      --
      Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
    6. Re:I get all my science from timecube.com by dangitman · · Score: 1

      You've made the fatal mistake of applying logic to the timecube. Now I'll just leave you to rock in the corner while your brain melts. By the way, you were educated stupid.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    7. Re:I get all my science from timecube.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like timecube better because truthism appears to be written by someone facetiously whereas timecube was actually written by a raving loon.

    8. Re:I get all my science from timecube.com by Goaway · · Score: 1

      YOU ARE EDUCATED STUPID

    9. Re:I get all my science from timecube.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HAHAHAHAHA

      "You can see the Reptilians via meditating, using hallucinogenic drugs, and sleep paralysis. However, these are the fourth-dimensional Reptilians, not the third-dimensional ones--but more on all of this later."

      Good one. Lovely!

      "The dinosaurs were created by the Reptilians thousands of years ago, before one of the Reptilians' latest re-starts of civilization. The dinosaurs were used in order to scare off other alien races from coming to Earth, and also to kick out the aliens that were already living on Earth. Once the dinosaurs had served their purpose and the Reptilians had Earth under control again, the dinosaurs were disposed of (i.e., made extinct)."

      This guy is not crazy, he's a A-grade comedian.

    10. Re:I get all my science from timecube.com by wondershit · · Score: 1

      And if it ain't there, then I just look it up on wikipedia

      Yes. Wikipedia is an excellent choice. :)

    11. Re:I get all my science from timecube.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Women are ultra-impressionable beings, and therefore are easily controlled by aliens and the elite. The main purpose of women on Earth (that is, what aliens have programmed them to do) is to enslave men via relationships." ... "It's bad enough that aliens and the elite already control us. Now, throw women into the equation, and you have absolute misery."

      Phew! Thank God that we have the gathering of the great slashdot crowd. We at least are not enslaved by these beings, these women! Thank you thuthism.com for opening my eyes!

    12. Re:I get all my science from timecube.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      omg the bullshit linked to and quoted on truthism is just... wtf. that's a lot of effort to put into it. these guys need padded cells.

    13. Re:I get all my science from timecube.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, realize that attempting to use your belief system to filter out this information is, in fact, a nonsensical paradox, because it is your very belief system that is at issue here.

    14. Re:I get all my science from timecube.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And looking at his HTML doesn't it make it better.

      You looked at timecube's HTML???!!! That was an educated stupid thing to do.

      You are damned for all eternity.

  3. Err... by brian0918 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Where's the article?

    Ohhh! Right right! This is the article. Slashdot is now a primary source!

    1. Re:Err... by astrodoom · · Score: 1

      It's in the 25th dimension. Oh wait, I mean 29th. Sorry, I was 4 off. Which just happens to be the number of dimensions in spacetime. Eureka!

    2. Re:Err... by Artefacto · · Score: 3, Informative
      Nature reported this back in November: http://www.nature.com/news/2008/081126/full/456432a.html The news is Mohamed El Naschie is going to retire. There are some interesting statistics:

      Of the 31 papers not written by El Naschie in the most recent issue of Chaos, Solitons and Fractals, at least 11 are related to his theories and include 58 citations of his work in the journal.

      And it's actually a theoretical-physics journal, with a relatively high impact factor of 3.025 for 2007.

    3. Re:Err... by Jherek+Carnelian · · Score: 3, Informative
    4. Re:Err... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ahhh the standard space-time deviation

    5. Re:Err... by nodrogluap · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On a related note, in some fields there is a greater tendency to cite. I would consider an IF of 3 relatively low in biology for example, but it's decent in bioinformatics. The IF is for granting agencies who'd rather judge your work by the journal it's in, rather than actually reading the article or looking up its citation count in Google Scholar (if it's been around a while).

      Incidentally, I've noticed that good open access journals in biology/bioinformatics are getting better IFs these days, so that model seems to be working. Our university in fact has started paying for OA processing charges, so we're sticking with OA journals with good IFs. Gotta keep those agencies happy :-)

    6. Re:Err... by Raenex · · Score: 3, Informative

      Second link in the summary

      I really hate summaries that link bomb you and don't give you any clue which one is the main article.

  4. Tom Cruise? by underworld · · Score: 1

    At first, I thought the advertisement for Tom Cruise in Valkyrie was a related crackpot scandal story.

  5. I want to tag this story "sowhat". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do I do that?

    1. Re:I want to tag this story "sowhat". by Drakonik · · Score: 0

      It is with great sorrow that I admit I read that as "sow hat" and was very confused. Today is not my day.

  6. Prejudice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The funny thing about this article is that it completely fails to mention the discussion about this on backreaction.blogspot.com -- even the bloggers there weren't so ignorant as to claim every paper to be rubbish.

    This is the kind of blanket statement that completely self-defeats any argument. Any scientist or mathematician would know that, so what are you doing writing about science and math?

    1. Re:Prejudice by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Science is built on reputation. If you have a good reputation, then people take your work seriously. If one of your publications is a hoax or fraud, your career is over. This smells like yesterday's fish's sweaty socks.

      Hell, expect Blogoavich to issue a statement tomorrow disavowing any association with this guy or his publications. It smells that bad.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
  7. Stupid entry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where is the source of the info?

  8. Impact Factor by JimFive · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wouldn't it be straightforward to adjust the impact factor to only include references to a different journal. That is, a reference to an article that you published doesn't count.
    --
    JimFive

    --
    Please stop using the word theory when you mean hypothesis.
    1. Re:Impact Factor by Ambitwistor · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Excluding references to the same journal is too harsh a criterion, since a lot of high quality papers get published in high quality journals. What should be perhaps excluded, though, is self-citation (whether to your own articles in the same or a different journal). Also, papers published in a journal by a journal editor shouldn't count.

    2. Re:Impact Factor by bh_doc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's not that simple, though, when you are talking about papers with multiple authors. It doesn't take into consideration to what level of involvement any particular author was. It's not uncommon for authors to be listed due to small contributions, or insight, or internal politics. At what point do you say their contribution was significant enough to warrant exclusion from impact factor calculations because of self-citation? And how do you even quantify that level of contribution?

      A principal supervisor of a group may not have much involvement on a particular paper, and yet expect and receive an authorship of it. Do you reject self-citation in that case, when the authors who actually did the work are not directly affiliated with the other papers their supervisor was previously a part of?

    3. Re:Impact Factor by quarterbuck · · Score: 1

      If you are a high quality journal it should not really matter if you exclude all references to itself. If "High quality journal" gets 60 references to it from other journals and 10 references from itself, the difference between 60 and 70 is not large. But you take "Crackpot dynamics journal" which gets 60 links to itself and 10 links from outside, the difference between 70 and 10 is large.
      If you still want to keep self-references, we could calculate modified impact factor as
      modified impact factor = number of links from outside X number of links from the same journal
      That would neatly exclude the problem being described above.

      --
      http://slashdot.org/submission/1062723/Cheap-mobile-data-plan?art_pos=2
    4. Re:Impact Factor by wintermind · · Score: 1

      That sounds good on the surface, but there are plenty of good reasons to self-cite. One of the things you count on peer reviewers to do is catch frivolous self-cites.

    5. Re:Impact Factor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Consider something like IEEE Transactions on Microwave Theory and Techniques.. it's sort of the major journal in the area, so lots of references to papers previously published in that journal. As for self referencing.. If you're legitimately advancing your previous work, why not? Say I write a paper about A, then a paper about B, then a paper about C, which combines A and B, would not a reference to the A paper and the B paper be appropriate?

      (hah.. capcha is "hustled", how appropriate)

    6. Re:Impact Factor by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Self citation is generally ranked very differently than non-self citation. Most impact factor calculations already take that into account.

    7. Re:Impact Factor by Ambitwistor · · Score: 1

      I didn't say there weren't good reasons to self-cite. I said that self-citation shouldn't count as part of the impact factor, even if it's legitimate self-citation. A paper's impact should measure the paper's impact on OTHER researchers. If I'm the only one who cites my own paper, my citations may be for legitimate reasons (building on my previous work), but that doesn't mean I'm having an impact on the rest of the community.

    8. Re:Impact Factor by Ambitwistor · · Score: 1

      As for self referencing.. If you're legitimately advancing your previous work, why not?

      There's nothing wrong with self referencing. But it shouldn't be used to quantify your paper's impact on the rest of the academic community. You can cite yourself all you want, for legitimate reasons, but that doesn't say anything about what impact your paper is having on anyone else.

  9. How did he get the high impact factor? by saforrest · · Score: 4, Informative

    How did El Naschie game the system?

    According to Elsevier, his impact factor is 3.025, which does seem high compared to Elsevier titles like Advances in Applied Mathematics (founded by Gian-Carlo Rota, who was a respectable mathematician).

    It's clear from the samples that El Naschie's articles are complete garbage, and I'm sure no respectable mathematician would want to publish in what's effectively a crackpot's vanity press. This is obviously the scientific journal version of Googlebombing.

    So how did he pull this off? Is he citing himself, and if so, where?

    1. Re:How did he get the high impact factor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Pick any of this recent papers and chances are good that most of the citations are to his own past papers. So, yes, that's how he's pulling it off: he cites himself ten times or so in each of his papers, and because he writes half the papers in each issue, that inflates the impact factor.

    2. Re:How did he get the high impact factor? by JamesP · · Score: 1

      So just add "nofollow" to self-references

      Problem solved.

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    3. Re:How did he get the high impact factor? by bugnuts · · Score: 1

      How did El Naschie game the system?

      He got posted on slashdot!

      In all seriousness, he's clearly churning out self-referential articles, which probably accounts for half of his references. The other half are by his "students". I remember that the Church of Scientology was doing this with websites, to mess with search engine ranks, which is very similar to Impact Factor.

      On an aside... is El Naschie related to Dirty Sanchez?

    4. Re:How did he get the high impact factor? by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

      No, then it takes 2 people. Or, if you check that case too, 3 people. (...)

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    5. Re:How did he get the high impact factor? by euri.ca · · Score: 1

      I really think that you need to use the length of the longest citation cycles to get a good idea of where the crackpot-clusters are.

      The assumption being that the good journals outnumber the bad journals, so even if crackpots can take over one or two, the longest cycle they can get is 2, whereas over time all good journals will tend to link to most other good journals.

    6. Re:How did he get the high impact factor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think a lot of nutters around him are also citing him, so it is more like a nutters club. Having said that, one of the editors, Steve Bishop, for that journal is in my department (Mathematics, UCL), however, I have not had a reply to my email to Steve, telling him this, so it is not yet clear if Steve knows he has this connection. It is hard to believe anyone would want to be the nutter's poodle.

  10. a perennial problem in bibliometrics by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you want to automatically determine what constitutes a good journal purely from data, the definition is something like: is frequently cited by other good journals. Obviously, there's a circularity there. Various techniques attempt to mitigate it, but none are perfect, and indeed most are rather simplistic and easy to game. It's basically hard to distinguish, purely from citation data, a vibrant community of legitimate research from a vibrant community of crackpots.

    In real life, most academics get around the circularity problem by starting with a set of "known good" journals that are determined by consensus in the field rather than algorithms (though this may sometimes be controversial). That lets them take into account more subjective things such as status of a research community (crackpots or not?). For example, as the linked article points out, the Annals of Mathematics is generally accepted as a top-quality venue for mathematics.

    If you wanted, you could then construct an Annals-centric view of mathematical impact automatically by seeing how frequently other journals are cited by papers in Annals. This is what happens informally as journals gain and lose reputation: a promising new venue often first comes to a community's attention because its articles begin to be cited in "known good" journals.

    But just taking all journals with no starting point, and attempting to extract from the citation graph which ones are "good" purely from the links, is doomed to failure, because there just isn't enough information in there to make the distinctions people want to make.

    1. Re:a perennial problem in bibliometrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So use PageRank (which is gamed to some extent by SEO lads, but much harder to game) or something like Advogato's trust metric (needs a "known good" supersource, but otherwise very robust).

    2. Re:a perennial problem in bibliometrics by TheNarrator · · Score: 1

      The one thing that separates crackpots from "Real Scientists" is who gets grant money. Look at String Theory or Post-modernism. Prestigious journals in both endeavors where both hoaxed. Post-modernism by the infamous Sokal affair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair) and String Theory by the Bogandov Affair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_Affair). There are also a lot of dubious things going on in the softer sciences that are heavily politicized. Meanwhile a lot of good fundamental physics and comp-sci research goes unfunded because it doesn't qualify for a DARPA grant.

      Imagine a poor inventor working on things like Tesla Motors, SpaceX or EEstore are doing. They'd probably get rejected for grants because those things are too far out of the mainstream.

    3. Re:a perennial problem in bibliometrics by dword · · Score: 1

      You do realize you've used the word 'Annal' three times in one post, right?

    4. Re:a perennial problem in bibliometrics by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      So maybe we need a Bayesian Impact Factor (BIF)? Start with some distribution for journal reputation (say, the results of a survey of university faculty and other researchers working in the area) as the prior, and then calculate a posterior based on observed citation data.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    5. Re:a perennial problem in bibliometrics by 1zenerdiode · · Score: 1

      It always worked fine for the legal discipline...huh.

    6. Re:a perennial problem in bibliometrics by __roo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This turns out to be a problem space with some really interesting conclusions. I spent some time over the last few years working with researchers from MIT, UCSD and NBER to come up with ways to analyze this sort of problem. They were focused specifically on medical publications and researchers in the roster of the Association of American Medical Colleges. They identified a set of well-known "superstar" researchers, and traced the network of their colleagues, as well as the second-degree social network of their colleagues' colleagues among other "superstars".

      I built a bunch of software to help them analyze this data, which we released as GPL'd open source projects (Publication Harvester and SC/Gen and SocialNetworking). I've gotten e-mail from a few other bibliometric researchers who have also used it. Basically, the software automatically downloads publication citations from PubMed for a set of "superstar" researchers, looks for their colleagues, and then downloads their colleagues' publication citations, generating reports that can be fed into a statistical package.

      They ended up coming up with some interesting results. Here's a Google Scholar search that shows some of the papers that came out of the study. They did end up weighting their results using journal impact factors, but the actual network of colleague publications served as an important way to remove the extraneous data.

    7. Re:a perennial problem in bibliometrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The one thing that separates crackpots from "Real Scientists" is who gets grant money.

      No, the one thing that separates crackpots from real scientists is whether their predictions stand up to experimental verification.

    8. Re:a perennial problem in bibliometrics by TheNarrator · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So I guess the string theorists are all crackpots? I might even agree with you :).

    9. Re:a perennial problem in bibliometrics by rm999 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hate to say this because I realize how naive it is, but who cares about the quality of journals? Perhaps It's because I'm interested in a more applied field, but I judge papers by their results, generality, accuracy, clarity, and sometimes author - not what journal happened to publish them.

      IMO most journals have been killing themselves off in the recent past. While running themselves as businesses may have worked when they served a useful purpose, all they do nowadays is impede openness and transparency. Want to read Professor A's conclusions? You better pay 100 dollars to some publisher owned by a huge conglomerate, because they own that paper (which was often written with a grant funded by tax-payer funds.) This is unacceptable in the internet age.

      IMO, all self-respecting researchers should avoid submitting to journals that do not freely provide all content online.

    10. Re:a perennial problem in bibliometrics by gekhond · · Score: 1

      Or calculate **PageRank** on journals: http://arxiv.org/abs/cs.DL/0601030, on articles: http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0604130, and finally: http://www.eigenfactor.org/

    11. Re:a perennial problem in bibliometrics by machine321 · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_Affair

      FTA: "This article needs additional citations for verification"

    12. Re:a perennial problem in bibliometrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a really interesting problem outside of academia as well.

      A liberal views information published in the New York Times as trustworthy while a conservative views it as suspect. Everyone builds a web of trust based around their worldview with a few information sources holding the highest priority.

      If you're using published material to provide you with information, then what is and isn't "true" may vary wildly depending on your seed sources.

    13. Re:a perennial problem in bibliometrics by MickLinux · · Score: 1

      Isn't "Consensus in the field" just another algorithm? Or was that disproved by that mathematician, whassisname, Elsveir?

      In real life, most academics get around the circularity problem by starting with a set of "known good" journals that are determined by consensus in the field rather than algorithms

      --
      Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
  11. Impact Factors are a Joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The problem with impact factors is that they don't measure the quality of the papers, they just measure the number of times they're referenced. The thought is that the number of times a paper is referenced is proportional to the quality. Sort of like the concept behind Google Page Rank - more inward pointing links means that the site is "better". ... Except that relying solely on incoming links doesn't work to well if people start to game the system. Google, who made it's name with the power of Page Rank, has since demoted it to "one of the factors" in determining result positioning, recognizing that simply counting incoming links leaves them wide open to manipulation. They're also ruthless about plonking anyone who is found trying to game the system. Impact factors don't have this defense - it's a straight sum-and-divide operation, with little to no adjustments or oversight.

    As I understand it, this sort of "gaming" is why crappy fringe journals sometimes get huge impact factors. What happens is, deliberately or not, the authors in those journals self-reference like crazy, jacking up the references per article count. It's like a set of websites which all link to each other extensively, but have very few incoming links from outside their clique. IIRC, Google compensates for this now, while impact factors do not.

    I've noticed a disturbing trend towards reliance on impact factors in judging the importance of work (say in tenure evaluations, etc.). The more importance people attach to such a flimsy system, the more frequently you'll hear such cases of gaming the system.

  12. Is it really a high impact factor journal? by Pinckney · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The summary claims Chaos, Solitons and Fractals, has a high impact factor. The blog linked to, however, does not assert this, and I see no source for it. He does also co-edit the International Journal of Nonlinear Sciences and Numerical Simulation, which the blog asserts "flaunt its high 'impact factor'." The link to the IJNSNS praising him is broken, so I can't confirm that.

    It looks to me like some crackpot got a journal. However, it doesn't seem particularly devastating. Nobody has based work on his articles purely on the basis of the "Impact Factor." I don't think anyone else is taking him seriously. At worst, libraries have paid to subscribe.

    1. Re:Is it really a high impact factor journal? by canajin56 · · Score: 1

      Some institutions may base funding on your publications weighted by the impact of the journal they are published in. I dunno if any DO, but it's possible. Its certainly not uncommon to determine funding based on number of publications, and I'd hope those numbers are weighted by the MERIT in some way or other, or else you just get people spamming "publication mills" with randomly generated BS, and get more funding to pay for the exorbitantly high application fees ;) I recall a number of years back, it was a front page article here on /., about a well known (and allegedly peer reviewed) conference in CS, where somebody successfully got a randomly generated gibberish paper accepted. They charged something like $500 to go, so it really was a matter of money-for-publication.

      --
      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
    2. Re:Is it really a high impact factor journal? by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1

      > At worst, libraries have paid to subscribe.

      You got to the heart of the matter. Ultimately this is the primary complaint that Baez is directing at Elsevier. There's also the issue that it makes a bit of a mockery of the publication process and suggests some things need improving. But Baez is a long-time campaigner against high journal prices and I think that was one of the reasons he felt so strongly about this issue. Elsevier distribute this journal as part of a larger package that libraries pay for and it bulks up the apparent size of that package, ripping off libraries.

      --
      Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
    3. Re:Is it really a high impact factor journal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact that libraries are paying for that subscription kind of pisses me off. Professional journals are expensive, libraries' funds are not unlimited, and that money could have been put to much better use. If I want crackpot theories, I'll go look them up for free at Timecube, rather than at my university library.

  13. Not exactly newest news... by Digana · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Slashdot is a bit late in reporting these news... I tried to submit them earlier when the news was fresher.

    The problem at heart is that one of the biggest and evillest academic publishers, Elsevier, has been supporting a crackpot.

    This shows that Elsevier isn't doing enough to promote the quality of research, and worse, libraries are paying huge fees with tax money for worthless journals. The problem here is bundling; university libraries have to buy in bundles journals, one of which may contain crackpot ideas as this one did.

    Boycott Elsevier! Let's have open access already.

  14. whoa. by flipmack · · Score: 1

    the time cube. wow. I haven't seen that in a long time. I didn't think it still existed. thanks for the flashback.

    --
    semper ubi sub ubi
  15. EL Naschie Affair by MarcusMoonus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This has been a fascinating case of Crackpottery. Read the blog and the subsequent replies. El Naschie seems to make it (Quantum Mechanical babble-speak) up as he goes along ,but unless you are an expert in this area, as Dr. John Baez is, it would be difficult for the casual reader to discern this. This is similar to the Bogdanov affair, another well know scientific scam. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_Affair )I'm a little surprised it took this long for Slashdot to discover this one. One other thing: One of Baez's beefs among others is that this bogus El Naschie journal is bundled with more respectable journals and Elsevier profits from the bogus science.

    1. Re:EL Naschie Affair by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Bogdanov affair is a little different. I did PhD research in theoretical physics but I was a bit unsure about the work of the Bogdanovs. There were bits of it that I could nitpick at and say it was definitely mistaken, but overall it was a little tricky to judge the bigger ideas without being a specialist in their particular subfield. The Bogdanovs had some smart people fooled. It's a very good hoax.

      El Naschie's writing looks like nonsense even to non-specialists (though I guess you still need a degree in mathematics or physics). There's no way it could fool even beginners in the areas his work covers. That makes it all the more astonishing that he survived with Elsevier for so long. Apathy I guess.

      --
      Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
    2. Re:EL Naschie Affair by joib · · Score: 1


      El Naschie's writing looks like nonsense even to non-specialists (though I guess you still need a degree in mathematics or physics). There's no way it could fool even beginners in the areas his work covers. That makes it all the more astonishing that he survived with Elsevier for so long. Apathy I guess.

      Greed is my guess. There's a comment on the blog saying that some researchers wrote a complaint about CSF to Elsevier about a year ago, Elsevier answered "thank you , we're going to look into it". But until Baez caused a PUBLIC outcry over this, they did absolutely jack shit.

  16. *shakes head sadly* by Fractal+Dice · · Score: 4, Funny

    Alas, something I discovered to my sorrow over the years is that sufficiently specialized math is indistinguishable from gobbledygook (and vice versa).

    1. Re:*shakes head sadly* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The proper mathematical term, I believe, is "abstract nonsense".

  17. Elsevier seems particularly prone to being "gamed" by swschrad · · Score: 2, Interesting

    they were heavily taken by "cold fusion researchers," a canard in three dimensions if ever I heard one, 20 years back. perhaps they occupy the same place in scientific literature as S&P and Moody's does in careful review of bonding and finance? down Illinois' way, they call it "pay to play."

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  18. Great stuff by amazeofdeath · · Score: 1

    Maybe now I'll finally get my numerology degree made.

    --
    U+F8FF
  19. Re:Caught by theillien2 · · Score: 1, Funny

    Why would you even bother posting this when /. puts the domain for the link in plain text?

    --
    If we don't protect the freedom of speech how will we know who the assholes are?
  20. In other news... by rhizome · · Score: 1

    ...there's a such thing as an "impact factor."

    --
    When I was a kid, we only had one Darth.
  21. It's Elsevier... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Half their journals are top-of-their-class, the other half are low-quality or almost useless garbage (like the example in the article) that still get cited more than they should because they show up automatically in searches in any of Elsevier's other journals or search databases. Oh, and of course this part:

    "The fact that this journal costs $4520 per year would be hilarious, except that libraries are actually buying it - at a reduced rate, bundled in with other Elsevier journals, but still!"

    Ah, bundling. It looks like a good deal, until you realize much of what you get in the bundle amounts to the journal equivalent of crapware and simply clutters up the library. Some of those journals I wouldn't pay $100 for, but the library has them wasting space on the shelves.

  22. Job security through obscurity in mathematics by grandpa-geek · · Score: 5, Interesting

    People used to say about a mathematician or physicist that "what he is doing is so important that only a few people in the world can understand what he is talking about."

    In a few cases it was actually true.

    Also, there were mathematicians who believed that the highest form of mathematics was work that had no practical application. There was a story that the inventor of matrix theory expressed pride that he had invented a form of mathematics with absolutely no practical use. Little did he know how extensively his work could be used. He would have been appalled.

    There still seems to be a feeling that the less people are able to understand a paper in a math journal, the more important the paper is likely to be.

    At one time I was a subscriber to the Annals of Mathematical Statistics. Papers in math journals usually assume that you know every paper previously written by the author and the others in the field. There is often very little introductory material and no tutorial material in these papers. Even if you have a general understanding of the topic, you can't follow the papers because they are written very concisely, and assume that nothing needs to be explained if it was ever published anywhere else. You may have to backtrack for years of someone's papers and still not be able to understand the paper you are trying to read.

    This is probably a combined consequence of "publish or perish" in academia and page limits in journals. It is often hard to tell if a given paper makes any sense or is useful.

    I guess you could call it job security through obscurity.

    1. Re:Job security through obscurity in mathematics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gee... I wonder if any of this guy's math is being used in current Climate "Change" (formerly Global Warming) Models...

    2. Re:Job security through obscurity in mathematics by jman11 · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure you've misunderstood what was going on there.

      Previously in mathematics history there was a philosophical concern that the strict logical rules employed by mathematicians might not be how the world works. It is after all an assumption that the world is logical.

      One way of moving beyond this philosophical argument was to prefix your work with a statement to the effect of "this work pertains to symbols on paper". It wasn't a pride thing it was just a way of moving forward and getting some actual work done.

    3. Re:Job security through obscurity in mathematics by invisiblerhino · · Score: 1

      Good post. As far as I'm aware, the guy 'who invented matrix theory' you refer to was in fact G. H Hardy, who was actually famous for his work in number theory. This really was a subject without practical applications, at least until RSA came along. Matrices have always been a useful calculational tool.

      --
      xterm -n 8
    4. Re:Job security through obscurity in mathematics by thechao · · Score: 1

      "the inventor of matrix theory"

      I think you may be talking (obliquely) about Cayley or Sylvester and the numeric representation of vector algebras. However, linear algebra (and matrices in particular) were developed with the specific intention of solving a broad class of problems related to analysis and physics. To be clear: matrices, their "weird" multiplication and other properties as formalized in 7th-grade maths books everywhere were developed by asking what properties of a particular class of numbers were needed, and finding a representation that fit that need.

    5. Re:Job security through obscurity in mathematics by martin-boundary · · Score: 1
      Unless I am mistaken, you appear to confuse Hardy and Cayley. It was Cayley who invented matrix theory, whereas Hardy, who lived about 80 years later, expressed that opinion in the Mathematician's Apology, which is not an apology in the modern sense, but rather a defense of pure mathematics.

      I feel I have to defend the practice of skipping introductory material in mathematical papers. If every technical paper had a substantial tutorial section, then it would be twice as big or more. And what would be the point? Every paper would be half the same as every other paper. There is room for surveys and tutorials in all fields, but it can and should be a citation. Even so, every mathematician has his or her own notation anyway, and mathematical papers tend to begin with a first section where the notation is (more or less gently) introduced.

  23. How insulting! by uberjack · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is an example of the sort of abuse we get all the time from ignorant people. I inherited this science from my father, an ex-used-car salesman and part-time window-box, and I am very proud to be in charge of the first science with free gifts. You get this luxury tea-trolley with every new enrolment. In addition to this you can win a three-piece lounge suite, this luxury caravan, a weekend for two with Peter Bonetti and tonight's star prize, the entire Norwich City Council.

  24. 10 Words by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

    Sturgeon's Law.

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  25. mixture of people by Trepidity · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The people who most directly care about especially quick-to-skim summaries of quality (like impact factor) are people judging the output of professors. If you're not familiar with a sub-field, how do you separate the professor who's published 20 lame papers in questionable venues from the professor who's published 20 high-quality papers in the top journals of his field? You look at some sort of rating for the venues he's published in.

    For reading papers, I agree it's not quite as relevant. I still do do a first pass of filtering by using my subjective views of publication quality, though. I'm more likely to give some surprising-sounding claim a thorough evaluation if it was published in a reputable journal than if it was published as a PDF on the internet, or in some obscure conference. You can't read everything, and the well-known conferences and journals in my area provide one level of vetting that I can rely on.

  26. I may be thinking about this as a CS geek .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not just have a second impact factor that doesn't count same author or same journal cites?
      Maybe one for each I'm not sure which would be better, but it seems like impact factor is being gamed too easily and needs updating.

      Also automatic tools for similarity to previous work IN THE SAME JOURNAL seems like a no-brainer. Not that an editor couldn't get around this, but it would be more obvious.

  27. peer review by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Originally, peer review meant that peers in the field would actually review the work. Researchers knew each other, and the endorsement of a well-known researcher actually meant something. As research communities have grown, journals have established themselves as the authority about what is good research, but this system was bound to deteriorate because there are conflicts of interest. It's not really always in their best interest to give good reviews, and often they are not really capable of doing the job properly.

    There's an easy solution. Peers just need to start reviewing each others' works again and put things back the way they were. We read each others' papers anyway, we might as well give a review. Perhaps we could use digital signatures to make the reviews verifiable. Here's a tool that does that. If researchers started reviewing each other again, it would naturally create a decentralized social network of linked papers and reviews that we could analyze. Essentially, that network would say everything about who is central in research communities, and who is only connected with a few lucky reviews.

  28. Mathematicians should use more car analogies by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2, Funny

    Mathematicians use all sorts of funky ancient Greek symbols to express their thoughts. It's like trying to read an APL program.

    If mathematicians could represent their concepts in car analogies, maybe ordinary folks would be able to understand what all the fuss is about.

    At least, here, on Slashdot, where the car analogy is the lingua franca.

    And the mathematicians might have some fun with it. How would you express the concept of isomorphic, infinite-dimensional, separable Hilbert spaces with a car analogy?

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:Mathematicians should use more car analogies by sdpuppy · · Score: 2, Funny

      And the mathematicians might have some fun with it. How would you express the concept of isomorphic, infinite-dimensional, separable Hilbert spaces with a car analogy?

      Oh that one is too easy - all you have to do is imagine driving on the Cross-Bronx Expressway during rush hour and you have the concept down pact!

      The infinite-dimensional corresponds to the amount of time it takes to get to your destination, separable Hilbert spaces are where you are and the space just ahead of the car in the other lane moving faster than you which you can never seem to reach unless you go under the separable space under the truck, and isomorphism is what you think of the other testosterone poisoned drivers who don't know how to drive.

    2. Re:Mathematicians should use more car analogies by mvdwege · · Score: 3, Funny

      How would you express the concept of isomorphic, infinite-dimensional, separable Hilbert spaces with a car analogy?

      First, assume a perfectly spherical car of uniform density...

      Mart

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    3. Re:Mathematicians should use more car analogies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isomorphism: A Chevrolet Corvette and a Dodge Viper are structurally identical therefore are isomorphic.

      Infinite-dimensional: A standard car, on planet Earth (for this example, imagine a Bugatti Veyron), can move in 3 dimensions. Forward/Backwards, Left/Right and at least in theory, up/down (if you drive off a cliff for example). These directions are considered orthogonal because they are perpendicular to one another (they form a right angle). Each new dimension introduced includes another perpendicular direction of motion (you can imagine time as the 4th but it's difficult for most people to imagine more than 4).

      Hilbert space: A hilbert space is a mathematical construction that allows us to measure things like the distance that our n-dimensional Veyron has travelled, or what angle it's facing relative to other objects in it's n-dimensional co-ordinate space.

      Sorry, I know it's weak but I had to at least give it a go. :-)

    4. Re:Mathematicians should use more car analogies by John+Meacham · · Score: 1

      Okay, Car analogies:

      Topological Hairy Ball Theorem: It is impossible to drive your SUV in a path that covers the whole planet without crossing your own tracks.

      Fixed point theorem: If you drive from LA to san fransisco all of one day, and back all of the next along the same path, you are guareteed to hit at least one spot at the exact same time you hit that same spot on the way up.

      Combinatorics: You are tired of carhenge stealing your glory and want to create a car-amid (car-pyramid). if you want your caramid to be n cars tall, you need n*(2 + n - 1) / 2 cars.

      --
      http://notanumber.net/
    5. Re:Mathematicians should use more car analogies by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      How would you express the concept of isomorphic, infinite-dimensional, separable Hilbert spaces with a car analogy?

      Ok. So you've got this car with a one cylinder engine you see, and you put it into drive. Now nano-seconds before the first cylinder fires, you take a positional mark of exactly where the car is as well as the height of piston in the cylinder. Then it fires and moves forward and you make another mark for the car's position and the bottom travel of the piston. Then you jam it into reverse and take another mark of the car and piston just before firing. Then the car moves backward to its original position.
      Now join all the dots on the graph paper and that's something like a theoretical Hilbert space if you ignore the spark plug firing because you didn't actually measure that did you?

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    6. Re:Mathematicians should use more car analogies by slartibart · · Score: 1

      Okay, Car analogies:

      Topological Hairy Ball Theorem: It is impossible to drive your SUV in a path that covers the whole planet without crossing your own tracks.

      If you start at the north pole and drive in an ever-growing spiral, until you reach the equator. Then it's an ever-shrinking spiral until you reach the south pole. I don't think that's the same problem as the Hairy Ball theorem. That says you can't comb a hairy sphere such that all the hairs lay flat. Or put another way, there always has to be at least one spot on earth where the wind isn't blowing.

  29. Buzzword Ponzi Scheme by sharkette66 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When the first questionable but exciting buzzwords come to life, just explain away the doubters with more buzzwords that sound even better!!

  30. Would the wikipedia deletion help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it seems that eliminating the wikipeida entry would make it easier for him to continue crackpottery - it eliminates one of the most popular sources people could look to find a critical opinion of his work.

  31. Why assume a single definition of good? by Willbur · · Score: 1

    It seems to me that part of the issue here is that you're trying to form a single ranking of all the papers/journals, and there might not be one. Netflix doesn't try to form a single ranking of all movies, they try to find the ones that a particular individual will like - a personalised definition of good.

    This allows the crackpots to have their own definition of 'good', and there is nothing wrong with that.

    For individual researchers this approach would probably work very well. Funding bodies would need to specify more constraints than just that they want "good research" to get a useful answer. Figuring out what those extra constraints 'should' be is an interesting question.

  32. yeah by Trepidity · · Score: 1

    That always struck me as somewhat funny about the term "impact factor". Having an impact is in normal speech an impact on something. These factors seem to be trying to avoid the question of what you're measuring an impact on by choosing something really broad, like "impact on the advance of science". But it shouldn't be a surprise that that's more or less unmeasurable.

  33. Deleting from the library would help by DaveInAustin · · Score: 1

    It might help if everyone asked their school library to stop subscribing to this "journal" and perhaps review other journals by this same publisher to see if they are worth keeping. At a time when worthwhile journals are being cut, it's a shame that schools are still paying for this one.

    --
    --- http://davidnehme.blogspot.com
  34. That's nothing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Impact factor? Pul-leeeze. That's nothing compared to the O'Reilly Factor!!!

  35. It's a scam by Elsevier WRT bundling subscription by Nicolas+MONNET · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Elsevier, just like other large commercial publishers of scientific journals, offers libraries a significant discount if they subscribe to their whole catalog.
    By including crappy, useless and inexpensive (for them) journals, they can siphon more money out of universities and into the pockets of their shareholders, as is their god-given duty as capitalists.

  36. Crackpot Crackkettle Crackblack by DynaSoar · · Score: 2, Funny

    It does not help the cause of the sole source of criticism, a math blog from U. Texas, to have ostensibly technical criticism asserting incorrectness but admitting ignorance (see second link in summary). The author takes issue with some points in an article of which he has some experience. However, he points out several things that he has no knowledge of and admits as much. He then asserts from this admitted position of ignorance that the material with which has is not familiar is somehow fraudulent. To make that claim valid the author would have to be able to determine that with certainty, but he can't.

    This technical criticism is produced in support of a posting elsewhere in the same blog, the author of which makes the same sort of assertions, and likewise fails to support most of them. In fact he can produce partial support for only one, and then claims support from others which is not produced. Some of this supposedly comes from his own administration which he admits does not support his work pursuing the matter.

    I take no position with regards to the central issue. I've seen a couple journals with very incestuous editorial policies and staffs. It makes it hard for others to get published. However, the situation evolved into this because those people did a lot of work with each other, not because any of it was fraudulent, so this can happen in an absence of any wrong doing.

    Claims of wrong doing are extremely serious, as the occurrence of such things are. Such claims should be supportable. The claims made in TFA that are supportable are not of evidence wrong doing, and claims of wrong doing are unsupported, and by admission, unsupportable by those making them. As far as I can tell this is a single blog's flamefest with more crackpot value than what they claim is due their target.

    In short, the accusers appear to be embedded in at least as much pot and crack as they accuse others of, failing utterly to differentiate themselves from kettle. They may have a valid point, but they fail to show it, instead making themselves look all the worse through the use of reciprocal psychoceramics.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
    1. Re:Crackpot Crackkettle Crackblack by TheNarrator · · Score: 1

      Above posted modded "interesting" should be modded "funny". For those that didn't get the joke, it appears to be an ironic attempt to apply the "El Naschie" technique in a Slashdot comment. He's basically throwing around a lot of unfounded complicated nonsense signifying nothing in an attempt to get modded up. Much as "El Naschie" does the same in his papers when really it's just, IMHO, a stream of conciousness drooling on the keyboard crackpot spew.

    2. Re:Crackpot Crackkettle Crackblack by Ambitwistor · · Score: 1

      You may be interested to know that the blog's author invented the Crackpot Index.

    3. Re:Crackpot Crackkettle Crackblack by DynaSoar · · Score: 1

      You may be interested to know that the blog's author invented the Crackpot Index.

      Thanks, I checked it out. It's weak. I've seen much better.

      You might be interested to know that the commenter (myself) is a kookologist of long standing, and was a frequent contributor of both administration and material to the operations of alt.usenet.kooks and the many kookological awards dispensed. I've studied networkish psychoceramics for well over a decade. I know it when I see it, whether it's in its natural native form, is developed intentionally as an art form (Meow), or is an effort conducted in response to a perceived kook of choice with or without wrong doing directed at those exhibiting kookness. TFA is of the last form, and I suspect perceived wrongdoing against them to be the driving force.

      --
      "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
    4. Re:Crackpot Crackkettle Crackblack by DynaSoar · · Score: 1

      Above posted modded "interesting" should be modded "funny". For those that didn't get the joke, it appears to be an ironic attempt to apply the "El Naschie" technique in a Slashdot comment. He's basically throwing around a lot of unfounded complicated nonsense signifying nothing in an attempt to get modded up. Much as "El Naschie" does the same in his papers when really it's just, IMHO, a stream of conciousness drooling on the keyboard crackpot spew.

      The above is an attempt to discredit based solely upon repetition of the only tactic they seem to have at their disposal, unsupportable assertion. It is a weak, transparent attempt. I salute your effort if not the result.

      When I mean to be funny, I can get it published in such as "The Best Of AIR". When I mean to be serious I can diagnose. When I mean to out a net.kook or collection thereof, I do so with clear intent, just as I have above.

      Claims of being funny, including being modded as such, only work in my favor. More will read it than if it appeared serious. By now far more have read it than read the math blog which is the source of irritation, and credit for that is in part yours. I appreciate your attempts to assist me. Feel free to continue.

      --
      "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
    5. Re:Crackpot Crackkettle Crackblack by Ambitwistor · · Score: 1

      Am I supposed to be impressed?

      Sorry. I know John Baez personally, and "perceived wrongdoing against him" is the furthest from his motivations here.

  37. that seems odd, if so by Trepidity · · Score: 2, Informative

    Citation indices like citeseer distinguish self-citations from non-self-citations; if you pick some random paper that has both, you'll see a tally like "81 citations -- 7 self". Does Thomson Scientific not actually bother to do that in computing its impact factor?

    1. Re:that seems odd, if so by MickLinux · · Score: 1

      Does that mean that he will now need to found several more journals, and start writing some of his articles under a pseudonym?

      --
      Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
  38. Not a whole lot to see here... by daniel_mcl · · Score: 1

    Basically what's being said here is that the academic publication system is vulnerable to the sorts of SEO attacks that briefly caused search engines to be befuddled by sites full of interlinked pages full of nonsense text and viagra ads. The academic publication system just moves a little slower, so it's going to take them a little longer to update things.

    --
    I used to read Caltizzle. I was a lot cooler than you.
    1. Re:Not a whole lot to see here... by glwtta · · Score: 1

      the sorts of SEO attacks that briefly caused search engines to be befuddled by sites full of interlinked pages full of nonsense text

      What do you mean "briefly"? Wikipedia is still the top hit for most Google searches!

      I wouldn't really say this affects academic publishing as a whole, though - these "impact scores" are pretty much an academic exercise, nobody really pays attention to them (unless they happen to coincide with pre-conceived opinions).

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
  39. Sounds like the "custom books" story from April by Ustice · · Score: 1

    It sounds like this jack-ass is using the system that Philip M Parker developed to create "custom books" where a computer network scours publicly available sources of information and then pieces together a "book" based on the information that it picks up. To someone scanning the books, you may not notice, but it you try to understand anything in it you can't help but realize that either the person that wrote it was a complete idiot, or it was computer generated.

    --
    One never knows when one might need a rotten tomato... - King's Quest IV: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow
  40. Problem goes beyond mathematics by babernat · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately I think the problem goes beyond mathematics and extends to technical schools of thought in general. It is disappointing that a respected publisher would publish this dribble. I think this day and age people are so desperate to get their ideas out there that they put out anything and for some reason many journals are willing to publish them. I bet you this guy's next paper will be, "I've proven P=NP!"

  41. If only i knew.. by Barryke · · Score: 1

    If only i knew someone that had the unstoppable urge to explain all this to me. I'd like that.

    (talking math and physics in general here)

    As a programmer, i wish i was better adept in math. Its interesting even when i don't understand it at all. If only..

    and then i stumbled upon the links in the article.
    Hey!

    --
    Hivemind harvest in progress..
  42. Screwed up ranking systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe he's publishing all the papers he writes, chock full of references to his other writings, in a journal he edits so he can build an impressive citation count, thus gaining brownie points towards a promotion. You don't have to be good to be appointed dept. chair, just get your name and university plastered all over "respectable" journals more often than the other guy and you're the administration's new hero.

  43. Math Reviews of El Naschie's papers by charteux · · Score: 1

    I looked up this guy on MathSciNet (Electronic Math reviews by the AMS). El Naschie has authored 98 articles. Many if not most say "There will be no review of this item". Some have a copy of the abstract only a few are actually reviewed.

  44. One company, 2000 journals ... by ErkDemon · · Score: 1

    It is disappointing that a respected publisher would publish this dribble.

    Well-known scientific publishers tend to be well-known because of a few stand-out "gems" in their inventory that get all the attention. Most people never see the rest of the iceberg.

    This is a commercial publisher who put put out 2000 different journals. That's an awful lot of iceberg.

  45. Journal SEO (Re:Not a whole lot to see here...) by ErkDemon · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The academic publication system arguably pioneered many of the SEO techniques - self-linking, linking to your mates, mutual cross-linking networks, adding lots of outgoing high-value links to your material to improve index rankings, and so on.

    If you're a new researcher in an obscure field, one of the best ways to advance is to assemble a group of researchers interested in similar topics, hold a conference so everyone can get to know each other, publish the conference proceedings, and then you all publish like crazy citing each other's papers - this then bootstraps the whole group's rankings.

    Another thing you see happening is that journals are wary of single-author papers, so it's kinda accepted that if you write a paper all by yourself, you invite a few mates to be co-authors, to make the thing look more legitimate and to improve its statistical ranking (with three authors rather than one, a paper has three times as many incoming and outgoing author links, and correspondingly greater connectivity).

    If you see a paper published in a major journal, with fifty authors, you know that each one of those fifty people probably can't personally vouch for every detail in the paper. If they could, you wouldn't need fifty of them.

    You also know that when you go through the most cited authors in physics, and find that someone appears to named as a co-author on ~300 successfully-published papers a year, that that person is probably a head of department, and may not have actually read all the papers with their name on, let alone been involved in any of the scientific work.

  46. There are no total guarantees. by ErkDemon · · Score: 1

    When the paper shows up in an INSPEC or Web of Science search, how is the person being scammed supposed to know that the paper isn't really legitimate?

    You never do know for sure, even with major journals:

    Problematic physics experiments.

    If someone submits an paper on experimental physics, the journal referees typically aren't in a position to say that the experiment really happened the way that the authors say. As long as the claimed results are roughly in line with what people expect, and nothing seems wrong, and the experimenters seem to have a track record, things tend to go smoothly.

    Trouble is, sometimes a respected researcher's entire career turns out to be based on a succession of fraudulent papers (e.g. the Schon case) - in these cases, what makes the offenders "successful" as scientists is often their ability to get results that other people couldn't get, or to get them first ... and sometimes the reason for those notable successes turns out to be because the "successful" researcher cut more corners. When the system operates according to the "first past the post" principle, and competing teams are striving to be the first to achieve a result (and get their names in the history books), there's an incentive to take shortcuts (consciously or unconsciously).

    With hindsight, a surprising number of "historically-significant" physics experiments perhaps shouldn't have been taken so seriously ... but they generated results that people liked, so they got through the system without quite as much scrutiny as they perhaps needed, and after something's been published in a major journal, it seems to be considered bad etiquette to criticise it too much while the author is still alive (provided that the results themselves are considered "right").

    Peer review (in the physical sciences) has never offered any guarantees, other than that a published paper should be considered by the system to be free from identifiable error at the time.

  47. Re:It's a scam by Elsevier WRT bundling subscripti by lysergic.acid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    which is why academic publishing is seriously screwed up. the public pays taxes to fund most academic research, but then researchers have to pay journal publishers in order to get their papers published. and in return, the publishers retain the copyright to all public research, keeping it out of the hands of the tax payers who funded it (and charging Universities up the ass to have access to their own research).

    people used to justify this commingling of academia with commercial interests by the peer-review process involved in journal publication, but the peer-review process provided by academic journals clearly isn't working here. at this point, it would be far better for Universities to publish their own research papers, allowing public research to be made freely available to students, researchers, and anyone else who might be interested in it.

    research papers could be published in online databases where they would be archived for easy public access. it's easy enough for independent writers to self-publish and distribute their writings online. so it should be no problem for Universities to do the same. the peer-review process of papers submitted for publication could be handled either by the University itself, or different Universities could get together and form an agreement whereupon they would review one another's papers for free. this would keep academic research purely non-commercial and eliminate potential conflicts of interest.

    eliminating/bypassing commercial publishing houses would also mean that societally beneficial projects like Google Book Search wouldn't be stonewalled by greed-driven publishers, and public good could be placed before corporate interests for once. Wikipedia is nice and all, but serious research would greatly benefit from all academic research being made freely available in a searchable online database for all to access. after all, public research isn't very useful if no one has access to it.

  48. Research Paper generator by SilverJets · · Score: 1

    Looks like this El Naschie (is he a Mexican wrestler?) is using the Mathematics equivalent of SCIgen - An Automatic CS Paper Generator.

  49. Quote the papers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, why don't we look at the article and read some of these papers published on the vanity press?

    It may be a rather well known fact, at least for all round educated mathematicians, that there are 17 and only 17 distinct types of wallpaper patterns in terms of their symmetry groups. Many of these patterns were known and used by the Arabs in Spain to decorate their palaces, for example the world famous Alhambra in Spain [9,10]. Less well known however is the fact that there are 5 Dirichlet domains corresponding to these 17 groups and that there are exactly 17 two and three Stein spaces with a total sum of dimensions found by the Author to be exactly equal to [14]:

    5 0 +1 =(5 )(137 )+1 =685 +1 =686

    Okay... The people in TFA have a lot more, but basically these papers appear to be gibberish. I hasten to mention that in spite of the odd name, there are 17 wallpaper groups, but the fact is that he comes up with all these occurances of numbers like 686 and appears to be claiming there's some kind of meaning behind it without specifying what, exactly, he's claiming.

  50. Leigh Van Valen and Red Queen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a biologist, I must admit mixed feelings (Was it Science or Nature who discussed El Nachie recently?). Leigh Van Valen, a biologist/paleontologist at the University of Chicago shows many of the same quirks. He self-publishes many of his writings in his own journal (Evolutionary Theory), a journal which consists almost entirely of Van Valen's work. He occasionally also publishes poems and songs in the journal.

    But here's the thing... Van Valen is, well, sort of on the brilliant side. He's published several times in Science and Nature. His seminal paper, "A New Evolutionary Law" showed that log survival curves of clades were flat, providing the basis for the well known Red Queen theory. He was obly able to get it published by starting "Evolutionary Theory" out of his office. Every journal he tried rejected the paper.

    That said, Evolutionary Theory is still published from Van Valen's office, and not from Elsevier.

    So, do we make this behavior acceptable for some and not for others?

  51. That's a Slashcode option you can turn off by Mathinker · · Score: 1

    You can totally turn off that "link in plain text" thing, if you want. Why you would want to do that, I have no idea (I set my own option to be even more pedantic about it than the default).

    1. Re:That's a Slashcode option you can turn off by theillien2 · · Score: 0

      I guess with people like him/her trying goatse-roll people I guess I'll never be turning that off.

      --
      If we don't protect the freedom of speech how will we know who the assholes are?
    2. Re:That's a Slashcode option you can turn off by knails · · Score: 1

      Actually I have mine turned off because it bothers me. I automatically check the lower right corner when I mouse over a url on any other site, and the plain text otherwise gets in the way when I'm trying to read a post.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" -Voltaire
  52. Re:Elsevier seems particularly prone to being "gam by kurthr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As a published scientific author-
    Elsevier sucks!

    They have bought important 'name' journals and charge for everything (including your pre-prints) that they possibly can. Many reputable departments are boycotting their publications now.

    They even bought me a nice dinner once in Tokyo. I guess that was a sign they were making too much money and had no idea how to spend it.

  53. Re:It's a scam by Elsevier WRT bundling subscripti by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    www.biomedcentral.com does exactly this.

    100's of journals. All free to access.

  54. Re:It's a scam by Elsevier WRT bundling subscripti by lysergic.acid · · Score: 1

    cool. ibiblio.org is more of a digital archive & online library provided freely in the spirit of open information exchange (they're part of the University of North Carolina, i believe), but they also maintain a collection of open access journals and allow users to submit their own research papers to the collection.

    hopefully these kinds of open access archives will catch on at more universities and convince academia that commercial journals aren't necessary.

  55. Elsevier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought most mathematics decided to no longer publish or referee for Elsevier...

  56. Re:It's a scam by Elsevier WRT bundling subscripti by WhiteHorse-The+Origi · · Score: 1

    You mean something like this? Arxiv

  57. Re:It's a scam by Elsevier WRT bundling subscripti by Metasquares · · Score: 1

    Peer review is done on a volunteer basis. The journals do not pay their reviewers. Very often they solicit the very same authors who submitted their papers to the journal to review.

    The model used by academic journals is quite exploitative to all parties involved and needs to change.

  58. Grand unification theory, get him a Nobel price! by owlstead · · Score: 1

    According to himself:

    "However if we postulate a geometry which is so wild that it looks more like a stormy ocean to be the geometry of space-time, then both Einsteinâ(TM)s theory and quantum particle physics will fit in. That is more or less what I have done."

    Oh, he has only created the great unification theory. My my, how unfortunate that he hasn't received his Nobel price yet. Gee.

    Source:

    http://www.el-naschie.net/el-naschie-physicist-details.asp?site=248

  59. Cool Pop-up by pohlman0 · · Score: 1

    Did anyone else get this cool popup from TFA?

    "Internet Explorer does not support MathML (used here for equations) and has severely broken support for other Web Standards like CSS2 and XHTML.

    Most Web designers have bent over backwards to shelter you from the failings of this wretched browser. We have not.

    Aside from the equations, many things on these pages will render poorly or not at all in IE. If they do, We're sorry, but we aren't going to "fix it."

    MathML support can be obtained with the aid of a new plugin. For the rest, you need to get yourself a Standards-Compliant browser, like Mozilla."

    And it's not my fault. I'm at work and can't install a real brower.

    1. Re:Cool Pop-up by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      And it's not my fault. I'm at work and can't install a real brower.

      Exactly, which is why you can't just ignore what 80% of the world stil uses as a browser.

      So why do you think the popup was "cool"?

      Extremely annoying, more like.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  60. all you need to know by cinnamon+colbert · · Score: 1

    1
    elsiver is a for profit company

    2
    some librarys, think harvard ,sustained by a 20 billion + endowment, buy everything, so all elsiveir has to do is say a years subscription = # librarys/cost * profit factor. And they have a pretty good idea of what # librarys is.

    and of course, professors need to publish, so following Sturgeon's Law, see wikipedia, most of academic/science publications are not that important (empirical data: science citation index states that ~ half of all papers have one or fewer citations)

    so there is this sort of game or collusion between the publishers, the funding agencys, the librarys and the academics to provide enough journals so that all the profs have some place to publish; there are a small number of journals - a handfull - that consistently have good quality stuff; most of the otheres just exist to make money for the publishers and jobs for the scientists (not to rant, but fusion power is another scam, just welfare for scientists, totally ludicrous)

  61. A Sokal connection by Kalvis · · Score: 1

    On the Chaos, Solitons & Fractals web site http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/journaleditorialboard.cws_home/967/editorialboard#editorialboard it says Associate Editors: Nonlinear Dynamics Engineering Applications: S.R. Bishop University College London, London, UK. So one of the editors is in the same department (the Department of Mathematics, UCL) as Alan Sokal of the Sokal hoax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair It is a small world!

  62. The Null Hypotenuse by BradleyAndersen · · Score: 1

    In grad school there were rumors of a Journal a former student had started called "The Journal of Pointless Studies". I submitted for publication to said journal a mathematical proof of the non-existence of the null hypotenuse. Since I was an Economist at the time, one Professor thought I meant "null hypothesis" and wrote me off. Another got the joke and then proved the existence of the null hypotenuse. Oh yeah. You know you wanna be me.

  63. Re:It's a scam by Elsevier WRT bundling subscripti by interploy · · Score: 1

    people used to justify this commingling of academia with commercial interests by the peer-review process involved in journal publication, but the peer-review process provided by academic journals clearly isn't working here.

    Well, if you're a crackpot, it follows that at least some of your peers will be crackpots too. That's the whole problem with trust-based systems. They don't work if everyone's a nutjob.

  64. Re:P by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Seriously now, I can see this business model struggling exactly on the same timescale as our friends at the RIAA, only less violently.

    Hell you could even put papers on Slashdot with special restrictions on the qualifications of mods and commenters. The only real stickler is you need a world class IT manager to keep identities ultra pure, and develop the credentialed group of Peers allowed to Review.

    The problem is that Good Science takes money, and money leads to political wiggling.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  65. Re: Content Rating by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    While it might allow some sophisticated trolls through, I'd like to use a search engine ranked by data intelligence. No BuyMe link farms, and phenomenal discussions above random unreadable junk.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  66. Re: Chicken Vs. Egg by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Chicken.

    Your first chunk of money comes from some other job, to produce your first paper, which earns you a grant. Then you earn the time for your second paper at "normal" rather than half-speed.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  67. Re:It's a scam by Elsevier WRT bundling subscripti by jbylake · · Score: 1

    I truly wish that I could have put your thoughts into words, first. Congratulations on exposing the wrong, the hoax, and the pure stink of it all. Bravo!

  68. Re:It's a scam by Elsevier WRT bundling subscripti by pitro · · Score: 1

    Excellent post! The problem here is that the professors who are holding positions in these commercial journals (and who possibly would not have so much power in deciding what gets published otherwise), to the disadvantage of all of us but theirs, will not give up their positions in favor of new, free, and open publication channels. On the other hand, there are some good examples and trends, see for example intechweb.org.

  69. Re: Chicken Vs. Egg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On the other hand, the sayings "You get what you pay for!" and "Pay as you go!" seem applicable. The amount of money you make per hour from publishing a paper makes the minimum wage look attractive. The fact that some people continue to publish useful papers at this pay rate is detrimental to scientific progress as it supports the societal manipulative myth that you don't need to pay researchers what they are worth.

  70. Prometheus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A much more reliable journal rating criterion already exists: it is called "Cited half-life".
          If you log in to ISI Web of Knowledge, choose Journal Citation Reports, select "JCR Science edition 2007", "View a group of journals by "Subject Category"", then select "PHYSICS, MATHEMATICAL", and "View Journal Data - sort by "Cited Half-Life", you will see a list of 43 journals. The top ones, with tied scores of >10.0, are COMMUNICATIONS IN MATHEMATICAL PHYSICS, JOURNAL OF MATHEMATICAL PHYSICS, JOURNAL OF STATISTICAL PHYSICS and a few more that everyone in the field knows are actually the journals of choice, while the two quack journals CHAOS SOLITONS & FRACTALS and INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF NONLINEAR SCIENCES AND NUMERICAL SIMULATION appear, respectively, as nos. 35 and 38 with scores of 3 and 2.2. If you eliminate the 15-20 journals that are misclassified by Thomson-Reuters as Mathematical Physics, and a couple more that have only been in existence for 2-3 years, these two quack journals come dead last.
          If, on the other hand, you "View journal data - sort by "Impact Factor", these two journals appear as nos. 2 and 1, with IF scores of 5.099 and 3.025, respectively, while, e.g., the widely used, well regarded JOURNAL OF MATHEMATICAL PHYSICS appears only as no. 26 with an IF score of 1.137.
          It is not hard to explain why the Impact Factor score has little or nothing to do with actual merit or genuine impact, while the "Cited Half-Life" has everything to do with it. Just think about it. Is progress in science based upon popularity polls, self-referencing or juggling of hermetic terminology? Or on careful verification of the validity of new results, confirmed by competent experts over an extended period of time?

  71. Clarifying journal ratings by macdonald_ja · · Score: 1

    A much more reliable journal rating criterion already exists: it is called "Cited half-life". If you log in to ISI Web of Knowledge, choose Journal Citation Reports, select "JCR Science edition 2007", "View a group of journals by "Subject Category"", then select "PHYSICS, MATHEMATICAL", and "View Journal Data - sort by "Cited Half-Life", you will see a list of 43 journals. The top ones, with tied scores of >10.0, are COMMUNICATIONS IN MATHEMATICAL PHYSICS, JOURNAL OF MATHEMATICAL PHYSICS, JOURNAL OF STATISTICAL PHYSICS and a few more that everyone in the field knows are actually the journals of choice, while the two quack journals CHAOS SOLITONS & FRACTALS and INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF NONLINEAR SCIENCES AND NUMERICAL SIMULATION appear, respectively, as nos. 35 and 38 with scores of 3 and 2.2. If you eliminate the 15-20 journals that are misclassified by Thomson-Reuters as Mathematical Physics, and a couple more that have only been in existence for 2-3 years, these two quack journals come dead last. If, on the other hand, you "View journal data - sort by "Impact Factor", these two journals appear as nos. 2 and no. 1, with IF scores of 5.099 and 3.025, respectively, while, e.g., the widely used, well regarded JOURNAL OF MATHEMATICAL PHYSICS appears only as no. 26 with an IF score of 1.137. It is not hard to explain why the Impact Factor score has little or nothing to do with actual merit or genuine impact, while the "Cited Half-Life" has everything to do with it. Just think about it. Is progress in science based upon popularity polls, self-referencing or juggling of hermetic terminology? Or on careful verification of the validity of new results, confirmed by competent experts over an extended period of time?