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Why Mirroring Is Not a Backup Solution

Craig writes "Journalspace.com has fallen and can't get up. The post on their site describes how their entire database was overwritten through either some inconceivable OS or application bug, or more likely a malicious act. Regardless of how the data was lost, their undoing appears to have been that they treated drive mirroring as a backup and have now paid the ultimate price for not having point-in-time backups of the data that was their business." The site had been in business since 2002 and had an Alexa page rank of 106,881. Quantcast said they had 14,000 monthly visitors recently. No word on how many thousands of bloggers' entire output has evaporated.

30 of 711 comments (clear)

  1. DUH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    DUH!

    1. Re:DUH! by darthflo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As if millions of voices constantly cried out in angst, and were finally silenced.

      Fixed that for you. ;)

  2. Dear Every Corporate Tool in the Universe: by yttrstein · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And that's why your IT department actually needs funding. Sleep tight.

    1. Re:Dear Every Corporate Tool in the Universe: by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And that's why your IT department actually needs funding. Sleep tight.

      They've had the site live for 6 years.
      This wasn't a lack of funding, it was just sheer stupidity.

      6 years and nobody ever thought it'd be a good idea to back everything up to dvd or an external hard drive. HTML compresses really well in case they didn't know.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:Dear Every Corporate Tool in the Universe: by yttrstein · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Stupidity IS a lack of funding. Pay the salary of someone smart enough to handle your data correctly if you have no interest in becoming smart yourself. Simple.

    3. Re:Dear Every Corporate Tool in the Universe: by Volante3192 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Never underestimate the beancounter's desire to save every cent possible. If your site's working perfectly fine, well, what's the point of having backups? Seriously, I see this happen all the time with small businesses. "Oh, it's never failed before, why do we need backups?" Then the server implodes.

      Course, they then get pissed at us for not preventing it, but what do they expect us to do, shell out for a tape drive with our own cash? I think not.

    4. Re:Dear Every Corporate Tool in the Universe: by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hell, they could have spent $50 on a USB hard drive (i.e., half-assed it) and been better off!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    5. Re:Dear Every Corporate Tool in the Universe: by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Being too stupid to recognize your own shortcomings is also a form of stupidity. Or hubris, whichever is more appropriate.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    6. Re:Dear Every Corporate Tool in the Universe: by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A USB drive is an excellent non-archival backup. Two or more in rotation is even better. That plus a decent RAID for the primary storage will cover most data losses. Even better if the drive goes home with the admin at night.

  3. El Oh El by greymond · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's all I can say at this. I'm really surprised that with all the users they had, they are so quick to say "everything is gone and we're giving up" instead of just starting over and maybe implementing protocol that would make sure this doesn't happen again.

    1. Re:El Oh El by kurtmckee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm really surprised that with all the users they had, they are so quick to say "everything is gone and we're giving up"

      Considering how complete and unrecoverable the loss is, they have no idea who their users are. The accounts would have to be recreated from scratch, but who would try? Their users have no reason to ever trust them again. Journalspace would have a difficult time wooing back their original users, and no new user would seriously consider using them.

      Bowing out is the only recourse, but I'm glad they're considering releasing their source code.

  4. Re:When is backing up *not* an option? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Incremental backups to tape every night, full backup at the weekend. Tapes must be stored off-site at a proper storage location. Got lots of data and a small backup window? Get a faster tape drive and a tape robot. It costs money, but you data costs more.

    This is at a minimum people. Come on!

  5. How hard is it to remember: by computersareevil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Mirroring: High availability
    Backups: High reliability

  6. Only 2 drives? by lalena · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe I could understand that there might be issues with backing up live databases, and they didn't want to deal with it. Still not an excuse.
    BUT, according to the site "the server which held the journalspace data had two large drives in a RAID configuration". Only TWO drives.
    All they had to do was pull one of the drives, replace it, and lock up the original off site. In a couple of hours the drives would have been mirrored again.

  7. Re:Ouch by conureman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Or even one, stale, backup.

    --
    The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
  8. Re:To the HR department by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The only problem with that idea is that it may not have been the IT guy's decision to save money by not having a true backup system. I have seen companies skimp on backup systems because they thought their RAID system was enough.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  9. A lesson for admins, and users too by gzipped_tar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No doubt this incident is the result of the admin's fault. He's been confusing mirroring and backup and carried on the mistake until it's too late, as pointed out in other comments.

    Now what about a user's angle? The morale is you can never think your data is safer when it's "in the cloud". If you value your blog and your readers, you *should* save a copy of your work as well as the readers' info, *locally*, somewhere you have control over.

    There's no place like $HOME.

    --
    Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
    1. Re:A lesson for admins, and users too by djmurdoch · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And a corollary to the parent's good advice: if you can't easily get a complete copy of your work, find another host. Manual one-by-one downloads don't cut it.

  10. There is a denial going on by hwyhobo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In today's world where primary storage and protection storage are well-defined, and where entire industry grew around it (examples: NetApp, Data Domain), one is hard-pressed to understand the reason for such a debacle. The reading of the note referred to in the article leads me to believe, unfortunately, that Journalspace's IT department did not understand the difference.

    It is sometimes considered a bad form to say something bad about fellow techies. We prefer to look for 'outside' causes. Still, to learn and avoid the same problems in the future, one has to admit his mistakes first. This paragraph from the Journalspace's page:

    The value of such a setup is that if one drive fails, the server keeps running, using the remaining drive. Since the remaining drive has a copy of the data on the other drive, the data is intact. The administrator simply replaces the drive that's gone bad, and the server is back to operating with two redundant drives.

    makes me believe there is a denial going on.

    --
    End anonymous moderation and posting on /.
  11. Re:That's what backups are for by MBCook · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My guess (and this is a guess, I'd never heard of the site before yesterday) is that this is some guy who started his own little site and it got bigger and bigger. Basically he never designed the backup, the system was just slowly pieced bigger and bigger until it got to it's current state.

    The comments in the messages from the site's operator about the cost of the drive recover and thinking both drives just died at once indicate to me that this site was basically a hobby for him and he isn't experienced as an admin.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  12. Re:Ouch by jabithew · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This story put the fear of god into me. The first thing I did since reading it is to back up the website I admin (for my dad) locally. I'd always assumed our host would have good backup, but that seems naÃve now.

    --
    All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
  13. Mirroring by jav1231 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    See mirroring is like...well a mirror. If you stand before one and stick a fork in your eye your mirror-image does the same. In real time. Analogies are there for a reason.

  14. You need more than backups ... by blowdart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You don't just need backups. You need to TEST them. Having a backup run every night is nice and all; but if the tapes are unreadable and no error was reported, or if you're doing it wrong and the backup is corrupted and you only find out when you come to restore ....

  15. Re:When is backing up *not* an option? by z_gringo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    NAS devices are cheaper and faster now. Lower end removable drives are not much more expensive than tapes, and they are a lot faster and easier to manage.

    --
    -- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
  16. Personal backups of online data by RevWaldo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is why users should be able to easily back up their own data for any online service. If a service entrusted with your data provides no straightforward way to drop a copy of it onto your own hard drive, don't trust it. I'd go as far to say that any service that doesn't strongly recommend you keep your own backups shouldn't be trusted.

    Do the big kahunas of the "Web 2.0" world give users that option? Gmail, Myspace, Facebook, Twitter etcetera ad nauseam?

  17. Re:Double Duh! by azav · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Or attach a 4 TB Drobo to it and then use Time Machine.

    Then make a backup and test the restore.

    Their admin is criminally incompetent.

    --
    - Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
  18. Re:When is backing up *not* an option? by Wdomburg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even accepting your price that's a cost of about 12.7 cents per gigabyte and you can get 800GB native LTO-4 tapes for about $50, which comes out to about 6.3 cents per gigabyte.

    But quoting costs for desktop grade SATA drives severely understates the true cost. For any non-trivial site installation you're talking near-line rated drives, drive caddies, storage shelves and additional SAN fabric. Then price out the additional power, cooling and rack space. Then price offsite shipping and storage for the bulkier, heavier and more delicate disk option.

    Mirroring has its place. Snapshotting has its place. And backups to stable media still has its place too.

  19. Re:The rules of backups by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1. Backup all your data
    2. Test your backups
    3. Backup frequently
    4. Test your backups
    5. Take some backups off-site
    6. Test your backups
    7. Keep some old backups
    8. Test your backups
    9. Secure your backups
    10. Test your backups
    11. Perform integrity checking
    10. Test your backups

    Every company I've worked at has had a backup plan. Exactly zero have had a recovery plan.

  20. Re:When is backing up *not* an option? by Trixter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's not my company's policy, that's *my* policy. I can take a 3-month hit to my personal data. AND YET MY LAX PERSONAL POLICY WOULD HAVE SAVED JOURNALSPACE.

    My *company's* policy is daily offsiting. Expensive, but very many of our locations could become a smoking hole in the ground and we'd still be able to restore and operate.

  21. Re:When is backing up *not* an option? by Wdomburg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Fine. Get the cartridges, but what about the capital cost minus depreciation of the drive? What about random access?

    Random access is why snapshots also have their place. :) Archival backups and nearline backups solve different sets of problems.

    Now weigh those against an inexpensive jbod frame with a 2gb FC backplane.

    What kind of capacity are we talking. For a small site you can pick up a little 2U unit that'll store 6.4TB uncompressed for under $5k. Or if you're running a larger site you can snag a 4U unit with two drives for about $15k that'll handle 30.4TB with optional expansion to 60.8TB native.

    What's the write speed of LT vs a tasty little GB SAS drive?

    120MB/sec per drive without compression. And now that you've talking about SAS drives your per TB cost is hopelessly optimistic. Even OEM packaged terabyte SAS drives are going to run you about a quarter a gigabyte, which is now four times the media cost of an LTO-4 solution.

    Rackspace? You can put a dozen into about 4U.

    So about 12TB in 4U compared to the 30TB unit I mention above.

    Cooling? Although I'll grant you green cost, the random accessibility out-classes the seek time and tape insertion by a human cost dramatically.

    Have you never heard of a tape library?

    Stable media? Tape? Sometimes.

    Properly handled tape is incredibly stable.

    Shelf space?

    If you're doing off-site storage, that's going to be an issue regardless of what media you're using. And as I pointed out, tape is far more compact and far lighter than disks.

    No need to use tape anymore. Get out of the reality distortion field, but do the right thing by testing what you have and doing drills to ensure that whatever you have, works and is a procedure understood by all.

    I'm not the one dismissing an entire class of technology while demonstrating ignorance of its costs and benefits.