Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

45nm Phenom II Matches Core 2 Quad, Trails Core i7

Posted by kdawson on from the still-in-the-game dept.

An anonymous reader writes "AMD recently debuted its 45nm Phenom II processors, and The Tech Report has already run them through a complete suite of benchmarks to see how they perform compared to Intel's latest and greatest. The new 2.8GHz and 3GHz Phenom IIs are in a dead heat with like-priced Core 2 Quads, but they generally fall well behind Intel's new Core i7 chips. TR concludes that AMD's future doesn't look as bleak as some say, and future Phenom IIs could compete favorably with more affordable Core i7 derivatives."

14 of 234 comments (clear)

  1. Not first post. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    But it could have been if I had a Core i7!

  2. The problem with Core i7 by oldspewey · · Score: 5, Informative

    is that the CPU price is only one component of a significantly higher overall platform cost. Both memory and mainboard cost significantly more if you want to build an i7 rig.

    --
    If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    1. Re:The problem with Core i7 by electrosoccertux · · Score: 5, Informative

      To be more specific, the motherboards are $200+ on the low end of the spectrum whereas there are a wealth of Phenom II supporting motherboards for $100; and 4GB of DDR3 is only now approaching $100. 4GB of DDR2, OTOH, (which works with the AMD Phenom II), can be had for $20 if you look for it. If you're too lazy to look for these deals, it can be had for $40 no rebates.

      AMD has a real winner on their hands here.

    2. Re:The problem with Core i7 by oldspewey · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't know about most people, but when I budget for a new build I budget the entire thing as a single purchase. So if the CPU+mobo+RAM cost $200 less I will put that money into faster graphics or more memory or a nicer display or whatever.

      I suspect it's a small, small group who buy the best that's available on the market with no concern for an overall budget.

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    3. Re:The problem with Core i7 by rezalas · · Score: 5, Informative

      You are missing a few parts there bud. Like video card, hard drive, DVDRW, Sound card (onboard sound blows). The difference is with a Phenom II, you get all that included in the price you listed as well as the other parts. Look at adding about $300 to your total that wouldn't be added with AMD.

    4. Re:The problem with Core i7 by evilbessie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I seriously doubt you are old enough to have had a mobo with truly awful sound (or even the bad old days of no sound at all). For most people having shitty little 10w speakers plugged in you are not going to notice the difference, hell even with better speakers you would be hard pressed. You only need a sound card if you need some more features/channels/etc. The modern mobos have perfectly serviceable sound for most applications.

  3. Good... but... by CajunArson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The main problem is that AMD is doing the exact same thing Intel did when the P4 was out: they went to a smaller litho process, slapped on cache, and cranked up the clockspeed. If you read the review carefully you'll note that while the new Phenoms are faster than some Core 2 quads, they are not faster on a clock-for-clock basis. Remember back when AMD was leading in that category and it was such a big deal?
        As of right now the Phenoms are a good deal IF you already own an AM2+ mobo... otherwise they are not a good deal for 2 reasons: 1. AMD is coming out with the incompatible AM3 socket that will use DDR3 memory in the next few months, so these current chips will have a very short shelf life; 2. Intel doesn't have to do any innovation at all to beat these chips, all it has to do is drop the prices on current Core 2 quads like the 9550 that outperform the Phenoms but are currently priced higher... dropping prices ain't rocket science and there are rumors these cuts could be coming by the end of the month.
          As for the Core i7, sure it is more expensive, but even the 920 model appears to wail on these chips, and there is a whole lot more future-proofness in buying a low-end i7 right now. Interestingly, the review mentions the new Phenoms have 758 million transistors which means they have about 27 million more transistors than Nehalem... but Nehalem at 2.66 Ghz is easily beating a Phenom at 3.0Ghz. It looks like what AMD really needs is a new architecture, but that does not appear to be coming any time soon.

    --
    AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
    1. Re:Good... but... by LWATCDR · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The Core I7 isn't all that future proof. Intel is going to bring out the consumer version of the I7 with guess what... A new Socket!
      I think that the AM2+ socket will have a good life span. The AM2 sure did.
      The thing really is though is that the Core2 and the X2 really are still "good enough". Most people really are not dieing for a faster PC.
      The Atom is the right now the most interesting CPU around. I think AMD should produce a two core version of the PhenomII or a 45nm X2 cpu.
      A very low power use AMD cpu combined with the 780G would be a great product right now.
      The only reason that any QuadCore interests me right now is that I am addicted to FSX.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    2. Re:Good... but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      AM3 is pin compatible with AM2+/AM2, it just adds faster HT and DDR3 support. My understanding is that Mobo suppliers can even choose to use the AM3 socket with DDR2, getting the (probably insignificant) benefit of faster HT but using cheaper RAM. The fact that the AM3 Phenoms have both DDR2 and DDR3 memory controlers means they van be used in AM2+ boards as long as there is a BIOS update. Could be used in AM2 boards as well from a hardware standpoint, but unfortunately (for me at least) there probably won't be any updated BIOSs for those boards.

    3. Re:Good... but... by Atriqus · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except that AM3 is compatible with many AM2+ boards; I know mine is. AM3 has both a DDR2 and DDR3 memory controller.

      --
      Hey, look! It's Bono's brother.
    4. Re:Good... but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually you are looking at this in the wrong way. The entire problem is that you are looking at the Phenom as though it's the critical portion of AMD design, which it's not. The Phenom II is part of the Dragon platform, which includes the 4000 series graphics and the 7 series chipset. When combined, the system can be configured for less than $500 or just under $700 with very high end parts. Once together, the AMD system can use Overdrive to hit 4ghz on air with very little effort. Tests have put them at 3.8ghz with the automated performance boosts. Now, not only does Intel not have a platform to match, but their chipset and graphics departments are still playing catchup. Once the AM3 systems hit the market Intel will be in a considerable amount of trouble staying competitive.... especially with the current voltage problems (DDR3 performance memory can burn up i7 chips).

      Also, do not forget, AMD manufacturing costs are dropping while Intel's are increasing. This is not a good trend to have when attempting to compete on prices. New i7 CPUs are entering the market at equal prices and staying high, while the very best AMD chip enters market at the lowest Intel price point and drops. It becomes very hard to justify spending several times more on an Intel system for a tiny performance difference, knowing that it might not even be DDR3 compatible.

    5. Re:Good... but... by athakur999 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The AM3 Phenom II's are supposed to be able to work in an AM2+ motherboard (and utilize DD2 memory). TechReport's review of the chip has some more details on this:

      http://techreport.com/articles.x/16147

      In one of the neater tricks we've seen along these lines, Socket AM3-capable Phenom II processors will, happily, be backward compatible with current Socket AM2+ motherboards and DDR2 memory.

      So AM2+ is still a viable socket for the future since AM3 processors will fit in. I wonder if the backwards compatability will work both ways - could an AM2+ processor be used in an AM3 motherboard?

      --
      "People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
  4. Re:Did you ever notice by somersault · · Score: 5, Funny

    So you didn't notice how you can't spell "Islamo-Communist mental case" without I n t e l then?

    --
    which is totally what she said
  5. Headline should read... by Pyroja · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... "AMD finally on par with Intel tech from two years ago."

    Seriously. I love AMD. I've been using AMD chips since my very first system of my own, which had a mighty K6-166.

    This past Novemeber, I finally bit the bullet, sold my Athlon X2 system, and upgraded... To a Q6600-based rig. Some may scoff that it's only a 2.4ghz chip, but I'm running it at 3.4ghz right now, and I'm fairly sure I'll reach 3.6ghz with a bit more work.

    To be sure, those who don't overclock, but want a powerful AMD-based system will find this chip worthwhile. I would expect those to be people who already have AM2+ systems looking for an upgrade (I have a good friend that wanted an ultra cheap upgrade for her desktop a few months back... I built her an AM2+ X2 setup. Guess what? Now she can upgrade to something worthwhile. Yay!).

    However, for the enthusiast, the hardware tweaker, the overclocker... The Phenom II is a disappointment. It has been said it can overclock to as high as 3.8ghz with good air cooling, maybe even 4ghz if you go with water. Awesome. C2Q can clock every bit as high, and you'll get more performance per clock out of it as well. I paid $180 for my Q6600. At 3.4ghz, it'll out-pace the top-end Phenom II. That Phenom II cost $275. Which is about the same price as... A low-end Core i7 chip that will overclock to 4ghz and beyond. With the i5 chips coming down the line, what's stopping Intel from slashing Core 2 prices?

    All-in-all, the Phenom II is a powerful chip, and would serve well as the heart of an AMD rig, delivering worthy performance for almost anything. The problem is, a Core 2 Quad will do ya one better every time, for the same cost or less, and has been doing so for the past two years.

    I'm anxiously waiting for AMD to bring back the glory days when they actually tried to compete with Intel, not just chase their taillights.

    --
    [Trojan.]