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Visitors To US Now Required To Register Online
mytrip sends a reminder that starting today, visitors to the US from 35 visa-waiver countries will be required to register online with the Department of Homeland Security in advance. The DHS is asking people to go online for the ESTA program 72 hours before traveling, but they can register any amount of time ahead. Approval, once granted, is good for 2 years. DHS says that most applications are approved in 4 seconds. If an application is rejected, the traveler will have to go to a US embassy and get a visa. CNet reports that information from applications will be retained for 12 years, and eventually up to 75 years.
Do people still visit that country?
I mean I don't even get a shopping card from our local supermarket because I don't think it's necessary for them to have my personal information...
I'm not a criminal, and I don't want to be treated as such. It would be would be debatable if they kept personal information for say a year or so and you could trust them to delete your information afterward.
... too bad, I'd really liked to have seen those miracles of nature within the US borders. Ohwell, I'll pour my money into another country's economy. Northern Spain is pretty nice in spring, I've heard.
Ok, time to cue the "I'm not going to the U.S. now" comments... this should be predictable.
The thing is, besides the inevitable furor from the tin-foil hatted crowd, is this policy a step in the wrong direction, or just a return to slightly stricter times? When I came to this country in the early 1970s it was required that we get visa's and passports, present them at the U.S. border, fill out extensive forms documenting our stay etc. And yet we were still thrilled to come here, despite some pretty awful things that had happened in the 60s. We had no doubt that our information was kept on file, and yet it was definitely worth it to come here.
So I am not sure if this policy is just a return to slightly stricter immigration control. If it is, can the policy work and is it necessary? Let's have some constructive discussion instead of whining please.
This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
It's nice and friendly - look what you get as a pop-up as soon as you visit the registration page:
"You are about to access a Department of Homeland Security computer system. This computer system and data therein are property of the U.S. Government and provided for official U.S. Government information and use. There is no expectation of privacy when you use this computer system. The use of a password or any other security measure does not establish an expectation of privacy. By using this system, you consent to the terms set forth in this notice. You may not process classified national security information on this computer system. Access to this system is restricted to authorized users only. Unauthorized access, use, or modification of this system or of data contained herein, or in transit to/from this system, may constitute a violation of section 1030 of title 18 of the U.S. Code and other criminal laws. Anyone who accesses a Federal computer system without authorization or exceeds access authority, or obtains, alters, damages, destroys, or discloses information, or prevents authorized use of information on the computer system, may be subject to penalties, fines or imprisonment. This computer system and any related equipment is subject to monitoring for administrative oversight, law enforcement, criminal investigative purposes, inquiries into alleged wrongdoing or misuse, and to ensure proper performance of applicable security features and procedures. DHS may conduct monitoring activities without further notice."
Afaik, no state on this planet has my fingerprints yet, and I do not plan on handing them over any time soon
I had to hand them over just to get a job (New York State requires them if you work for an OMH licensed facility) so I'm already "screwed" in this sense.
For my contract at a school district in Pennsylvania I had to do a child abuse background check (Which had to be mailed in with a $10 money order, no personal checks), a $10 State Police background check, and $40 to have my prints put on file with the FBI/checked with the FBI via the local intermediate unit. It's widely required at other places of employment, as well.
Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
When I first traveled from Germany to the US in 1988 no Visa Waiver Program was in place. You had to apply for a visa, pay an application fee (~$80), mail your passport, completed form, and passport pictures to the embassy/consulate and wait for two weeks to receive your stamped passport by return mail. If your application was rejected you had to appear in person.
Today, the process does not incur any cost, is almost instantaneous, and you do not have to surrender your passport, answer intrusive questions during a life interview that that could go anywhere, depending on your answers and whims of the interviewer.
The incremental change is that you have to be fingerprinted on your arrival in the US.
I think that the new system is an improvement over the old one. You all seem to forget that international travel used to be much more restrictive and intrusive.
Travel within the EU - while without any apparent border controls - is tightly controlled, over a much wider area, with tight cooperation from police, customs and other agencies. It only appears on the ground to be open and free.
Talk to people that traveled in Europe and beyond in the 70's and 80's about travel restrictions. Not to mention Eastern bloc countries...
True, that's a pretty low barrier.
But So What?.....
Every half motivated tourist we don't get is money not in our (US) economy.
Let's lock the Department of Homeland FUD out and let the tourists in.
Heck, I traveled a lot in the 1970's. Went to the USSR, went to Yugoslavia, Japan, India, etc. Never had to give fingerprints and (at least for the Common Market), the process was pretty painless.
People used to make jokes about the USSR because of the difficulty and arbitrariness of their visa process. Just saying...
When I started college 3 years ago I was actually planning on spending a year in the US just to see what the standards and discussions are like and to see whose history I'm studying here. Since then, each year, the American governments makes one shit move after another and my interest in actually visiting this country dwindles with every one.
My sincere advice to you is: DON'T. Every country has beautiful, impressive, and important sights to see. If you must travel abroad, go someplace nearby and minimally fascist.
The USA could really use your tourist dollars right now, but coming here and giving them to us would just be rewarding bad behavior, which only guarantees more of it.
Please, visit a country whose government supports personal freedom. Don't put your money into the USA. You're only funding global terrorism.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It is utter irony of course that the US is so much for boasting freedom etc, but they are implementing measures that are supposedly done in the interest of security without really adding much of anything (beyond annoyance and essentially making the entire visa waiver program useless). It does however seem to indicate just what the US government thinks about the rest of the world: no one can be trusted.
Of course, since apparently green card holders now will be subjected to the ridiculous US VISIT requirements as well, that distruct shouldn't surprise anyone.
Sad thing is... I'd be willing to bet money that Obama won't change any of this during his presidency, which (to me) would be a clear indication that this isn't just the action of an adminstration under a crazy shrub, but rather a consistent move towards protectionism and isolation.
Sad sad sad...
We are about to find out whether that is also true in the USA.
I don't think it is. Yet anyway. How many states stood up and flipped Washington off over real-id? Our system is more decentralized than the UK's. That's one of the reasons I'm leery of the geniuses that think we should continue to expand the power of the Federal Government. Personally I'd chop the Federal Government down to size and shift the responsibility for the social safety net to the states.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Your government keeps your prints when you haven't been convicted of anything?
Here in Canada they take your prints upon arrest and are supposed to destroy them IIRC 6 months after acquittal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
I have travelled all around the world.
Form Canada to South Africa, Vietnam, Namibia, all of Western Europe. You name it.
Your immigration procedures are only comparable to those in Vietnam, a communist dictatorship.
If that makes you feel great, all the power to you, if it was my country it would give me pause for thought: it would seem that to be safe you have to emulate totalitarian attitudes.
If you think that poster is lying think again. I go back home frequently and flights with stop overs in the US are cheaper, but just to think about all the draconian, unnecessary procedures (I would be just in transit, no other country I know off needs you to apply for a visa in advance to go on transit) makes me feel sick. Thus I chose to fly using European or Canadian airlines, where I can change planes quickly, efficiently and with minimal fuss.
Every time I flight back home your country loses an average of $1500 that it would gain if the intrusive bureaucracy wasn't so unreasonable.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
this country is big enough for anyone to travel, with enough really wonderful places to visit and not have to visit anywhere else in the world.
And never be exposed to a different culture than the one they already know.
There's plenty of neat places in all the countries in the world to keep people busy their entire lives, but there's more to travel than kodak moments.
You can't take the sky from me...
You folks don't know the half of it..
My flight to London from Australia went via LA recently. I had to sign a "visa waiver" that basically said I waived all my rights whilst in transit in LA.
I had no intention of entering the USA at all. I was "in transit" from Australia to London.
However, I was directed through USA imigration into the baggage claim area (my baggage didn't leave the plane of course..) and then herded back around immigration into the transit lounge.
At the immigration desk I was photographed and fingerprinted. When I stated that I didn't want to enter the USA and asked why I was being fingerprinted, the immigration officer was quite rude and basically said "What do you have to hide?".
I found the whole incident truly scary and it made me quite sick to my stomach. I will never take any flight that transits the USA ever again and I will certainly never visit the USA.
Two things get me about this.
The first is that the process effectively mixed me (an in-transit passenger) with visitors to the USA _after_ immigration. This is stupidity of the highest level.
The second is that the USA now have my photo and fingerprints on record against my will and I have absolutely no say in how those records are used or stored.
During this experience I had the awful thought that if my photo happened to match some dickhead criminal, I could have been thrown in a USA prison, something that doesn't really appeal to me.
I advise anyone traveling overseas to avoid the USA if at all possible.
A good friend of mine refuses nowadays to return to the US, she is a us-born woman with filipino roots living in finland nowadays with her (finnish) husband.
After twice being submitted to full strip searches entering her homecountry, she just couldn't stand it anymore.
Make a man a fire and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life