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Tricked Into Buying OpenOffice.org?
mldkfa writes "Recently I told a friend about OpenOffice and how it was a great alternative to the big name pay office suites. She went home and searched on Google for it and thought she found the website, filled typical registration information, and downloaded OpenOffice.org 3.0. The next time she opened her e-mail she found a request for 98 [Euro] for her 1-year subscription to OpenOffice.org 3.0 from the company that she downloaded it from. Apparently the EULA stated this cost and here in Germany she is required to pay up. So I thought I would ask Slashdot, should she pay? On the OpenOffice.org German website there is a warning of these schemes being legal. Shouldn't Sun change the license of OpenOffice.org to protect their fans or are they doing this to protect someone else? It has really made me think about recommending it to any more friends." Below, read Google's translation of the warning; it wouldn't be the first time that open source software has been lightly repackaged and sold in ways that should raise eyebrows among anyone familiar with the wide, free availability of the same apps.
Google translates the warning message thus: "WARNING before downloading from any third party: The download of OpenOffice.org is free from this page possible. These are not personal data. In recent times, however, we can reach more complaints about companies that the program for a fee for downloading. Among other leading search engines to search for OpenOffice.org to pay "download subscriptions. We want to emphasize that we have these offers are not affiliated and is not responsible. Due to the open-source philosophy allowed our license, but also the sale. When you download OpenOffice.org under no circumstances disclose your personal information!"
Well, if as you say it's legal in your jurisdiction, then it sounds like yes, she should pay, unless she wants to risk damage to her credit.
Maybe for this reason everybody should get into the habit of calling it OpenOffice.org. That's the name of the software. Not OpenOffice. OpenOffice.org. So where do you get it? OpenOffice.org. What's the cost? Find out at OpenOffice.org. What's the latest version? OpenOffice.org will tell you. Et cetera.
Breakfast served all day!
Is it a typical EULA that was scene during the install of the product? Can't your friend state that she read the EULA, disagreed with the terms and is, in effect, returning the software (deleting it). Delete it, get a fresh copy (just in case the company in question modified some of it before passing it along), and use that instead.
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
Most likely there's some way to cancel the order on the basis of faulty or incompatible produce -- "Y'all's version of Open Office don't work on my computer! I want my money back!" type deal.
Look into that, remove their version of it, and get the official one or even different software.
Any way to 'return' the 'product'?
I know that Europe has much better consumer protection than the U.S., generally speaking, so she may be able to get a refund or somehow officially reject the product and not pay.
excuse me, but see a lawyer over a E98 charge? Can you even talk to a lawyer for E98, let along talk long enough to get advice about the particular situation?
Yeah, well tough shit.
This boxed set includes a Ubuntu CD, Quick Start Guide, and 60 days of professional support from Ubuntu.
$20 for a CD, a printed guide, a pretty box and 60 days of professional support is not so bad really.
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
I'll need the EuroDotters among us to confirm if it's more common over there to ask for a full name. Most quasi-savvy Americans are used to Bogusizing such things and only registering for real if it's a kickin' program.
Like we see with the patent trolls, these kinds of operators also have access to lawyers to provide nuisance suits along the theme that they "provided additional packaging services". So if they stuck their own splash screen on it, it *is* work performed, and so makes the case too murky to simply throw out.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
The problem is that the 'product' purchased is 'ability to download from our site'.
Openoffice being GPL, they aren't selling the *software*, they're selling the *download*. Uninstalling the software doesn't negate the download service 'purchased'. ... in the same way that you can't return a package to the sender for a refund of the UPS fees.
(IANAL, blah, blah...)
If you're not the copyright-holder of a piece of GPLed software, you have the right to sell copies of the software, but you do not have the right to sell the legal, controlling rights to that software.
Here's the relevant bit from the FSF's GPL Licensing FAQ:
Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money?
Yes, the GPL allows everyone to do this. The right to sell copies is part of the definition of free software. Except in one special situation, there is no limit on what price you can charge. (The one exception is the required written offer to provide source code that must accompany binary-only release.)
It's interesting that the FSF talks about selling copies rather than just about licensing a copy. I believe their point is that in order to distribute the software (for free or for money) it's necessary for you to transmit a copy to someone else, and because the GPL puts restrictions on distribution, not use, there's no point in using the term "licensing".
coding is life
Das wÃre gar nicht in Ordnung. Really, unless you get seriously mixed up in the Russian mafia, Germany is an incredibly safe place to live. But the police might come a-knocking with a court summons if you ignore a debt or fine.
(Last summer, an Italian girl told me she'd feel quite safe sleeping in one of the parks in Berlin, because there were other people doing it, but would never ever do the same in Milan. Berlin's a more relaxed, "socialist", graffiti-strewn kind of city. High unemployment, lots of immigrants, junkies, drug dealers in the parks, legal prostitution...it's the kind of place that would be a violent crime-ridden hellhole in the US, but here it's really quite pleasant if you enjoy a bit of grit in your life. And don't own a luxury car.)
Huge, probably not. AFAIK, worst case is you pay the money owed, plus maybe a bit extra. But basically all you need to do is send a stern but polite "fuck off" letter to the company. As others have mentioned, consumer protection laws are quite strong here. You just have to know your rights and exercise them.
Germany can be pretty screwed up in some respects, especially if you're used to living in a fairly "loose" system like the US.
Not that I disagree with your assessment about Germany being screwed up, but I think calling the US loose (especially compared to Berlin) is a bit of a stretch. Having lived both in the US and in Berlin, I consider most of the places in America much less relaxed in every respect I can think of (drugs [especially weed], prostitution, homosexuality, sex in general, abortion etc). Well, everything except gun control and nazi insignia.
Completely off-topic but "I use linux since the last century" becomes to be sigable...
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
Ya know, there's a difference between what the law states and what is enforceable. Technically she may be required to pay-up, but that doesn't mean she has to. It's very likely she could ignore the email, never pay, and the scammers would drop the bill because it's too expensive to file court cases to claim $96.
Worst case: If they somehow managed to charge her credit card, she could simply send an empty envelope to the scammers and tell the VISA card, "I have returned the item; here's the tracking number which proves it. Please reverse the charge," and it will disappear.
When dealing with deceitful scam artists, sometimes you need to be smart and reverse-scam them to recover your stolen money. Use the law to your own advantage. I've bought a lot of false-advertised junk off Ebay and Amazon, but so far haven't lost a single penny thanks to using the technique I just described.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
He can't because only the original copyright holders of the GPL'd work can sue under such circumstances.
The program can be seen in German here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0ks_ttU7Yo
The Kriminalpolizei (sounds so much cooler than our plain police. :) ) advices that victims of this scam under no circumstances pay.
So to the OP: Don't pay!
The way the story is told I'd suggest that the practices of this company are at the very least deceptive, and there's ways to deal with this. I'd recommend waiting for legal papers (Mahnbescheid*) and then have a lawyer tell them to shove it. They won't go to court because they know that their business practices are "Sittenwidrig" (including laesio enormis - the service (that's what was sold) is in no way proportional to the costs) which essentially means that their practices are amoral/against proper business practices and thus not legal. *) A Gerichtlicher Mahnbescheid is a kind of legal paper anyone can get from a local court without any real checks by paying a few bucks to the court. This paper is then used for forclosure. However, this claim can be challenged, which would lead to a proper civil trial - if the claiming party will go that far, which in this case, they most likely won't.
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?