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The Secret Lives of Ubuntu and Debian Users
jammag points out a look at statistics from the Popularity Contest projects on Debian and Ubuntu. These projects track the download and upgrade habits of their respective distributions' users, revealing — no surprise here — that Ubuntu users are more likely to be newbies than Debian users. The numbers reveal, for instance, that 86 percent of Ubuntu machines use the proprietary NVidia driver, where only a mere sliver of Debian machines do. Likewise, Debian users are far more eclectic in their software choice, less likely to use any default options. The article concludes with a look at the limits of what conclusions can be drawn from statistics like these. "In general, Debian users seem more eclectic in their use of software than Ubuntu users, and less likely to use an application simply because it is included by default. Debian users also seem more likely to be concerned to maintain a free installation than Ubuntu users — a conclusion that is hardly surprising when you consider Debian's reputation for freedom, but is still interesting to see being supported by statistics. ... To what extent last week's figures are typical is uncertain. Very likely, studying the figures over a longer period would produce different results. Possibly, too, those who participate in the Popularity Contests are not typical users of either Ubuntu or Debian. "
I use ubuntu and love it. Some of us aren't worried about free as in whatever debates and more interested in usable *nix, and for that ubuntu is fantastic.
Using the proprietary nVidia driver makes you a "newbie"? When you consider that the open-source driver doesn't fully support a lot of modern cards (last I checked, everything from the 8-series on), and provides inferior performance to the proprietary one on most of the cards it does support, I'd have to wonder how you figure people who haven't yet replaced the included driver aren't the "newbies." Or perhaps it's buying nVidia cards that makes you a "newbie"? Real nerds use Intel GMA 900s!
I run Debian on my server and Ubuntu on my laptop. I have no need for NVidia drivers or a web browser for my server. I also use more manually installed software on my server as there is no default server software configuration that will meet anyone's needs, while the default Ubuntu installation serves most of my productivity needs.
I know when I install Debian, I don't even bother with any of the major metapackages. I just install a base system, and apt-get whatever I need. That way, I know everything that is on the machine, and it's all stuff I use. Of course, doing this in Ubuntu would defeat the whole point, which is to have a well managed set of applications preinstalled for you. So it seems obvious that Ubuntu users would use a lot more of the same software than Debian users.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
> Debian users are far more eclectic in their software choice, less likely to use any default options.
When most of your experienced users think your default options are crap and refuse to use any of them, perhaps it is a good time to change those defaults, eh?
Cool to know that's where they are pulling their package ratings info. This has been tremendously useful in my family - I just tell the wife "I dunno, install the one with the most stars and see how it works for you." I'll have to install the Popularity Contest package so I can add to their data, even though I don't subscribe to idea of having a "contest" at all.
df -h
[...] Ubuntu users are more likely to be newbies than Debian users. The numbers reveal, for instance, that 86 percent of Ubuntu machines use the proprietary NVidia driver, where only a mere sliver of Debian machines do.
How does that classify a user as a newbie instead of just someone interested in playing games through WINE, or someone interested in graphics performance?
the coolest club on
Regular people just want their computers to fucking work.
It's also why Apple keeps selling computers.
If you can't understand that, then you're clueless.
I'd also be interested in architectures, does Ubuntu support anywhere near the same range?
I've got little experience with Debian, but can compare Ubuntu to Fedora and say that Ubuntu sacrifices bells and whistles that a "tinker" like yourself would prefer so that it can deliver ease-of-use. The most glaring difference that I've noticed is right at the very beginning while you're installing it... Fedora presents you with a list of hundreds of packages/application to install and Ubuntu (if I recall correctly) just sets you up with a system that's good for "most purposes" without giving you the same wide options.
As my choice for a computer that's doing anything besides web-browsing, word processing, picture editing, and music playing... I'd avoid Ubuntu. However, I'm proud to run Ubuntu on my laptop because that's all I use it for.
Support the 30 Hour Work Week!!!
pppffftt
Why burden the end user at install time when you've got such a cool
package manager as apt-get or synaptic waiting for them on the other
side? You can literally start with the Debian net installer, use the
most barest of options and have a functioning system afterwards that
can easily add anything else you want.
You don't need an F-350 full of water bottles on the front lawn.
You've got indoor plumbing.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
All modern desktop distros are as functional and easy to use as Ubuntu. We have moved past the days of dicking about with autoconf and makefiles for hours just to get X11 to start up. Ubuntu is not really special; the Ubuntu team just got lucky, because Mandriva was on the verge of collapse right at the time when Ubuntu was getting started, so they rushed in to fill the void of "easy desktop linux." Fedora also works out of the box now (and yes, before someone gives me an Ubuntu-worked-Fedora-didn't story, I have plenty of stories of Ubuntu not working when Fedora did; so what?), Mandriva is back on its feet, OpenSUSE is less of a pain, etc. Seriously, why do people focus on Ubuntu?
Palm trees and 8
I suppose I should clarify my comment. She bought a computer with Ubuntu on it. Yes, I understand what you're saying. Clearly the journalist what no tech expert, which obviously the Linux community has no patience for. So next time you're in getting your car fixed and you don't know what a lower control arm is, I hope they call you an idiot.
Similes are like metaphors
Sorry, I have not yet seen many smart new Linux user who is swithed from Windows to Ubuntu ditribution. I read three different Ubuntu forums (eng, fi, swe) and all the skilled Ubuntu users are mostly from other distributions who has learn things correctly.
Every day you can find out on typical comments of blogs, news on web or other kind sites where Ubuntu users are blaming other distributions, giving instructions to do sudo this and sudo that, marketing the "uber" package manager of _Ubuntu_ (they dont even always know it is from Debian) etc.
And when you point out to them the CoC (Code of Conduct) page of Ubuntu, they plame you to be a liar or n00b who should STFU.
There is BIG difference between Ubuntu and Debian users.
Debian users knows that "Free" on the "Free software" means Freedom but not the price.
Ubuntu users believes that "Free" on the "Free software" means no cost and rights to relicense copyrighted material as GPL without permission, because GPL is FREE".
You can go any almost any place to find out that mostly bad behavior conduction people are _ubuntu_ users.
It gives very terrible view of Ubuntu when the most comments what are coming from Ubuntu users, are totally wrong or idiotic. All my friends are in feeling that Ubuntu turns people to somekind zombies to be included army of Canonical and to be praise the Ubuntu.
Two years ago, you got gnome-look.org or kde-look.org sites for Gnome and KDE. Now you have more stuff to Ubuntu and Kubuntu. You are more easily finding a wallpapers or even the icon packs or themes to be build as Ubuntu DEB package than standard tar.gz package what could be used on Gnome desktop what ever Linux-distribution or other than Linux OS is used with Gnome.
If most newbies comes switch from Windows to Ubuntu. It is predictable that most idiotic users can be found from there. Because if someone speaks out the truth about stuff, you get answered as STFU because you might "hurt" someones knowledge by being too technical or accurate. Because the usage should be "easy" and "simple". It is good that you even can use "Distribution" word without being flamed as geek or nerd who does not understant that "Distribution == Operating System" so you should not say "Different distributions" but "Different Operating Systems".
When someone comes to computer site to ask help about Windows installation, soon there might me first Ubuntu user suggesting that he/she should install Ubuntu because the OS includes a great office package, is easier to use etc. And other Linux users and even Windows users are needed to help the first commenter to solve her/his problem with Windows.
Do you really think no MS fanboy would have harassed her?
Hmm. My experience is that the MS fanboys are far less passionate about their choice than either the Linux or Mac fanboys. Perhaps it is the complacency of the mainstream?
You are correct that there are fanboys for just about everything, and I expect you are right that someone would have responded had she blamed Microsoft, but I doubt there would have been the same depth of disparagement and certainly not the same quantity. Fewer MS fans would have bothered to respond...
I use both Linux and Windows and like them both. I used Macs a very long time ago, but their price pushed me to Windows and then Linux (I'm talking about before Jobs left the first time...). I enjoy working with all three, but wouldn't consider myself a fan of any of them any more than I'm a fan of my television.
Clearly the journalist what no tech expert, which obviously the Linux community has no patience for. So next time you're in getting your car fixed and you don't know what a lower control arm is, I hope they call you an idiot.
This was moderated "insightful"?
Maybe it's my Buddhist influence speaking, but personally, I think the world could learn more patience. The next time you're in getting your car fixed, and you don't know what a lower control arm is, I hope they try their best to be courteous and helpful, and try explaining what a lower control arm is to you (assuming this knowledge is even at all relevant to solving whatever problem your car is having).
It isn't requred, but they *tell* you it is required. The problem I've found with family that I'd give Linux machines to is that they would just go out and buy software, hardware, and services without checking if they were compatible with Linux or consulting with me. There are many users that don't understand what an OS is, they think that there are "computer CDs" and that they work like DVDs (and work everywhere). Really, those users aren't wrong -- its the situation that is screwed up. We should have been using a standard interpreter years ago, such as Java. People can lament the Java implementations all they want, but it was a great idea.
Those same users, when they get a CD from Verizon telling them to put it in, to get their internet working, will do just that. If it doesn't work, they won't blame Verizon (who is rightly at fault), they'll blame their computer for "not working right". Surely, because to them "computer CDs" are like DVDs and will "just work" unless their computer is broken. I know that this happens to Windows users too on occasion, they'll buy programs that only work under MacOS or Linux -- this happens much more rarely than the other way around, of course.
Of course, readers of Slashdot will know *why* it doesn't work, and *why* the situation is as it is, but we really need to do something about this. There should be a trademark logo program that can be used to certify disks or procedures that are platform independent. Verizon should make it clear that Linux (and other) operating systems will work with their services, and provide ample instructions that will not confuse users that don't know what an "operating system" is.
Vendors really need to get on the ball and realize that Linux is getting on enough devices now that they *do* have to support it, and they can't make it a magic black art that only power users and greater can accomplish. Linux on the desktop won't be a success as long as our grandmothers get hung-up on when they say their computer has Linux running on it. Grandmothers won't know that they need to lie on the phone when they call technical support, they won't even know what lie to concoct, and they shouldn't have to lie.
The truth is that if you run Linux today, you need to know what you're doing or entrust management of your systems to someone that does -- not because Linux is difficult, but because vendors will make your life hell otherwise.
"The numbers reveal, for instance, that 86 percent of Ubuntu machines use the proprietary NVidia driver, where only a mere sliver of Debian machines do." What do most people use for a server? Debian workstation? Ubuntu. Servers don't need fancy graphics no need for nvidia binary!