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Microsoft Donates Code To Apache's "Stonehenge" Project
dp619 writes "Several months after joining the Apache Foundation, Microsoft has made its first code contribution to an Apache project. The project, known as Stonehenge, is made up of companies and developers seeking to test the interoperability of Web standards implementations."Reader Da Massive adds a link to coverage at Computer World.
But it makes Apache better too.
Sometimes it is possible for everyone to win.
I guess that's one way to look at it, but IMO, as one of the struts developers, I was happy to get easy access to copies of their OS so that I can virtualize them and test across browsers, etc. You can say it improves their product, but I say it improves mine... TOE-MAY-TOE / TOE-MAH-TOE however you want to look at it, I appreciated it.
FTA: "The project, known as Stonehenge, is made up of companies and developers seeking to test the interoperability of Web standards implementations"
The first thing I thought of when I read this, is that Microsoft updated the project so it was compatible with IE (not making the project more standards compliant, but that it made IE appear to be standards compliant).
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Embrace - you are here. Extend Extinguish
I do believe "Embrace" was covered when Microsoft joined the Apache foundation. Now that they're actually adding code... that's represented by "Extend."
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Their immortal souls...the usual.
1. Create protocols/formats/standards/specifications which are not inherently inter-operable. (Remember how buggy, incomplete and inaccurate OOXML spec was. Remember how Windows-specific the .NET and Silverlight specs are.)
2. Pick one of your competitors, give him (and him alone, not the whole public) code and/or patent-freedoms so that he can make an inter-operable software. (Remember Novell OO.Org plugins, Mono and Moonlight.)
3. Claim that the standard itself is clean and inter-operable by showing the existence of the above competitor's inter-operable implementation as "proof". In making this claim, take advantage of the fact that most people, organizations and courts make the mistake of not seeing any difference between the original definition of an inter-operable standard - "A standard whose specification is public, true to reference implementation and complete so that any developer can make a fully inter-operable implementation without paying any fees or signing any license agreements" and the twisted definition given by Microsoft - "A standard that has at-least one competing implementation besides the reference implementation".
4. As the claim gradually gets accepted, the "standard" becomes a de-facto standard and more people and government will adopt it. This leads to the death of 1) other standards and 2) other independent implementations of the same standard. (because the top implementations are not inter-operable with them)
5. Now you and your friendly competitor are the only ones in the business. After everyone forgets history, pull the plug and let your competitor die.
The largest prime factor of my UID is 263267.
Maybe that's what this is, too? Good press for them, while at the same time, they're doing more to undermine web standards with things like Silverlight than they have ever done to support them?
When did Flash become a web standard?
If it is one, what's so bad about competition forcing it to become better or die? Doing Flash programming used to be about as much fun as repeatedly slamming your junk in a car door. Now it's getting better from that perspective and I don't doubt that competition looming from Silverlight is some of why.
Yup, and I've made this is a point I've made in the past. I personally believe that while MS is generally evil, and Ballmer rates slightly below Dick Cheney on the evil intentions scale (decidedly lower on the actual evil scale due to Ballmer's patented apeish idiocy), Chris Wilson, program manager for IE, is trying to do The Right Thing.
Personally I think he gets away with it only because Ballmer hasn't noticed.
Chris Wilson, program manager for IE, is trying to do The Right Thing.
The right thing is to let the truly inter-operable standards - the standards which won't require anybody to depend on somebody's charity - to come into acceptance. What MS has been doing will only contribute to the rise of pseudo-standards - standards whose inter-operability depends on one company's charity. This, in turn, leads to the death of other web-servers because they can't implement these standards in inter-operable ways. After that, MS quits Apache Foundation to be the single player.
The largest prime factor of my UID is 263267.
Close.
The sample app is a .NET application that's tied into the Windows Communication Foundation. It's the "Embrace" phase of the plan.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Microsoft doesn't want to use LGPL software in their OS for obvious reasons.
Sorry, it's not obvious. Were it GPL, you'd have a point.
Consider that Apple uses Webkit in Safari, which is shipped with OS X. Why is that not a problem for them?
Microsoft has no way to be 100% sure that the code in there is written by the people who claim to have written it
Apple has already taken that risk. No one has come forward. The iPhone is getting pretty huge, and it has Webkit on it.
Google has also taken that risk. It's on Android. It's in Chrome.
Many apps use and embed MSHTML/Trident including htmlhelp, MSDN library, the GameSpy Arcade frontend...
So include Trident as a legacy version. Apps which support the newer library can use it.
But when Wine uses Gecko, these same applications don't seem to have any problems.
Many web pages, especially on corporate intranets wont run in anything other than IE
Those pages are abortions. No new pages like that should be built.
For the existing ones, they don't necessarily work with IE7, and IE8 is about to be released (or is it out already?), so I think making a newer, incompatible version wouldn't be such a tragedy.
nor do these other browsers support any kind of "protected mode" ala IE7
...except Chrome, which is splitting it out per-process.
What's more, given the environments we've seen these run on, I doubt there would be any real problem doing that. It's a rendering engine -- why should it care what user it runs as? Everything that needs to run outside the sandbox is chrome anyway, and could be carried over.
Basically its just not possible to replace MSHTML/Trident with gecko or webkit and not break a whole bunch of stuff that is VERY important to Microsoft customers.
You mean, like they did with Vista and UAC? Microsoft isn't exactly known for backwards compatibility.
At the very least, they could start shipping other browsers as the default -- and this takes almost no effort. People for whom the above matters can use IE.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!