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A Teacher Asking Students To Destroy Notes?
zwei2stein writes "I found this question with far-reaching implications in the off-topic section of a forum I frequent: 'My economics teacher is forcing us to give up all of our work for the semester. Every page of notes and paper must be turned over to her to be destroyed to prevent future students from copying it. My binder was in my backpack, and she went into my backpack to take it. Is that legal?' Besides the issue with private property invasion, which was the trigger of that post, there is much more important question: Can a teacher ask a student not to retain knowledge? How does IP law relate to teaching and sharing knowledge? Whose property are those notes?"
I'll venture a quick guess... Ms. Galindo, Harlandale High School, San Antonio, TX? (I'm surprised she's still teaching if so, she has to be pushing 70 by now. I graduated in 1996..didn't have her for classes, but knew of her antics far too well.)
If it isn't her, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that someone else would do the same.
Besides being anal about exactly how students take notes, she was notorious for making all students turn in their notebooks at the end of the year. She would make sure they were complete (you'd fail the entire class if not) and then make you shove it through an industrial shredder she had brought in just for this task.
Fun fact: She was teaching there as far back as the 70's...a family friend had her back then. The friend ended up out of school due to medical issues. An hour after waking up from a major surgery that had her gutted like a fish, that teacher was on the phone making sure she was doing her homework.
Assuming you are NOT a minor and are in college then they have no right to take your notes. As stated before you wrote them so they are your property. I would at least file a formal complaint even if the professor is tenured and talk to a lawyer.
On the other hand if you are a minor and this isn't college then your rights (if any) will depend. In this case it really depends on what your parents are willing to do and or back you doing.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10351058
Then you're licensing your own work, since the copyright of your own notes falls to you.
Of course, this is much murkier legal waters than the question the OP asked, which IMHO is pretty straightfoward: since the teacher was teaching them, and no other contract was in place, an implicit personal use license was granted.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
If the copy was lawfully made (i.e. with permission of the Copyright holder) then it belongs to the person who owns the piece of paper. The Copyright holder can't demand that they return it, destroy it, not sell it, etc... It's called the "Doctrine of First Sale." You don't need a license to "use" your own legit copy of anything, with some exceptions for creation of derivate works, public performance to people not in the presence of the physical copy, rental of software, and a few others.
The teacher can only achieve the desired outcome by entering into an agreement (i.e. a Contract) with the students beforehand that all copies of the notes will be turned at the end of the semester. In other words, there's nothing in Copyright law that gives the Teacher the right demand the students return their notes, even if they copied them from the teacher with his permission.
Works of authorship become protected by Copyright as soon as they are fixed in a tangible medium of expression. A Copyright notice is not necessary anymore. However, it is a good idea since it establishes authorship and date of authorship, and reduces the possibility that someone might innocently believe the work is not protected.
It's a paradigm shift that I've witnessed over the years. The RIAA/MPAA certainly have been major influencers.
Also, this is quite honestly lazy ass teaching. Reusing 100% of the material year after year...? Hell no. Theories change, textbooks update, and teaching methods improve. Beyond that, as pointed out before, the notes are for your future reference, not just for reference of the class. If you were to write all your notes into the margins of your textbook, would they tell you that you have to burn the book?
Bring this to the Dean first. If nothing else, just to get his/her reaction. If the Dean thinks this is no big deal and acceptable behavior, get the hell out of there. That place is taking your money and giving you a substandard education as far as I'm concerned.
Vol~
A reply in the original thread says:
Even funnier that the forum ID which posted that is "I pwnd U"....
I agree completely. It is very important as an academic to ensure that this instructor's behavior is not tolerated. Your school most likely has a well-defined policy for behavior, and what many people often fail to realize is that this policy cuts both ways. It lays out expected behavior for both students and teachers.
When I was a college sophomore, I took an introductory geosciences class to fill a gen-ed requirement. Now, most of the people in this class had pinned their hopes on a curve in this class, but I enjoyed the subject material, and in general, I took my studies very seriously.
However, around the time of the midterm exam, I came down with a horrible stomach bug, and was unable to attend class. I contacted the professor ahead of the exam, and had even made the effort to get a doctor's note. But the professor actually had the gall to tell me "tough luck, kid" in writing. I wrote a letter back to the professor, copying both my advisor and the Dean of Students, citing portions of the Undergraduate Code of Conduct (the "arbitrary and capricious" part was the money quote), and pasting this nice , little "tough luck, kid" part into the letter.
Within 24 hours the professor had scheduled a time for me to do a make-up exam.
It may seem like students often get the shit-end of the stick, but keep in mind, these people work for you, even if they don't always act like it.
Are you implying that the teacher somehow has a copyright on the information taught in the classroom? The teacher was speaking, and since that speech is not "fixed in a tangible medium", the teacher has no copyright at all whatsoever. In fact, this is one of the few cases left where speech is still free of the evil spectre of copyright.
All data is speech. All speech is Free.
P.S. Found a reference - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Martinez-Fuerte
"We have held that checkpoint searches are constitutional only if justified by consent or probable cause to search....And our holding today is limited to the type of stops described in this opinion. -[A]ny further detention...must be based on consent or probable cause." i.e. Without probable cause, like noises coming from the trunk, the homeland security checkpoints that are randomly placed in certain states may NOT search your car.
Here's a useful resource:
https://www.checkpointusa.org/blog/
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall