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Senator Prods Microsoft On H-1B Visas After Layoff Plans
CWmike writes "US Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) told Microsoft this week that US citizens should get priority over H-1B visa holders as the software vendor moves forward on its plan to cut 5,000 jobs. 'These work visa programs were never intended to allow a company to retain foreign guest workers rather than similarly qualified American workers, when that company cuts jobs during an economic downturn,' Grassley wrote in a letter sent Thursday to Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer. The letter asked Microsoft to detail the types of jobs that will be eliminated and how those cuts will affect the company's H-1B workers."
Reader theodp adds, "On Friday, Microsoft coincidentally announced it would postpone construction of a planned $500 million data center in Grassley's home state of Iowa, although work on data centers in Chicago and Dublin will continue."
Surprised a Republican did this. These guys are more likable when not in power, I guess.
These H1B holders are well-educated. They'd be able to take of themselves. They'll return home and be a huge benefit to their home country. The US, meanwhile, will lose these talents after probably having spent lots of money in educating them.
Remember: the number of jobs is not fixed. A million unemployed but well-educated nerds will probably lead to the next google, Apple or whatever. If you throw these people out of the country, those companies and their jobs are just created elsewhere.
Fleur de Sel
I was laid off from my programming job and I have been looking for a job for a year now, and I keep getting passed on. I've even lowered my wage expectations and my references, former managers and coworkers, have a lot of good things to say about me. I am constantly applying through newspapers, monster.com, dice.com, etc. Why is a H1-B holder getting precedence over me? And, why are these companies laying off Americans in favor of keeping the H1-Bs? We have a problem, Houston.
The H1B's that are here are pretty bright. More importantly, the ppl being let go, many be just OK. In the end, MS will start hiring overseas anyhow. Watch what happens with the MSFS group. Just laid off. I am betting that they will hire in CHina for a whole new team.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Let's be clear here. We are talking about H1B program, not outsourcing. Companies outsource entire department to save costs, because they can pay less to equivalent workers overseas. On the other hand, when sponsoring a H1B visa, the employer has to show that the guest worker gets the prevailing wage, on par with all the "similarly qualified" U.S. citizens in the same business. On top of that, the government increases the application fee every now and then to make it costlier to hire H1B workers. In general, it's actually more expensive and difficult to hire a truly qualified H1B employee. Nobody would hire a permanent employee holding H1B visa unless they can't find anyone else equally competent. If anything they've probably already prioritized the H1B holders in their layoff plan, because it makes business sense.
Having been in this situation a while back, no, there is officially no grace period. As far as I know, it just happens that the administration lets people transfer anyways. I have heard 10 days, 2 months, nothing... I personally had my H1b transfer initiated in the couple of days after my company closed. Technically, you can apply for transfer, start at your new job, and have your transfer denied (or so they say, I never actually heard about a denied transfer). fun stuff!
I think bringing in foreign tech workers is fine. The problem is sending them back home.
By the logic that says that bringing foreign tech workers into the US is bad for US tech workers, a software engineer would be better off looking for a job in Flint, Michigan than San Jose, California, because there are so many software engineers in San Jose. The problem with this reasoning is that the number of software engineers in San Jose attracts companies there, and those companies create jobs. Having other engineers around means you get a smaller proportion slice of a much, much larger pie. And the very best engineers don't just consume jobs, the create new industries.
The real fault with the H1B program is that it is structured in a way that encourages companies to offshore jobs. You bring a cohort of junior engineers in from India, have them gain experience in your field and product, then you kick them back to Banagalore, a ready made outsourcing team. Making employers shed H1Bs will only accelerate the loss of US jobs, giving US workers a larger proportion of a much, much smaller pie.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
It is true, these companies are only American in name, as the majority of their workforces are located overseas. They could easily adopt the pharmaceutical model of moving their taxable income there too. Frankly, I do not understand why they have not done so. Could it be patriotism?
These H1B holders are well-educated.
Except for the ones that lied about their education and experience: http://www.businessweek.com/print/bwdaily/dnflash/content/oct2008/db2008108_844949.htm
When I worked for FNMA I wondered how most of my H1 coworkers had no previous knowledge of computers, and why even though they supposedly had degrees in EE they had no knowledge of any basic principles of that field. They were very popular with management because they always said yes, and were continually afraid of 'causing problems'. The ones I talked to also made 20-30% less than I did.
Certainly not the case everywhere, but I'd say H1B1 visa holder = undereducated indentured servant in far too many places.
These companies already pay some of the lowest taxes going. The reason is that we have SO many loopholes. In addition, if they move overseas, it will hurt sales.
I myself have never seen a "fat lazy American" at my business,
This is due to great Management, we don't hire them.
You are deluding yourself if you think there is a racial/national difference between you and Americans.
I've lived and worked overseas, guess what? You have fat lazy Indians, Chinese, Vietnamese and more.
Face facts, it's a cost analysis, no more than that.
I myself would be offended and try to do something about a company that thinks my work deserves lower pay versus my co-workers due to my nationality.
Seems we need to think on a global level as members of the human race vice difference based upon language, melanin, and areas defined by a grease pencil oh so many years ago.
*I redirected my /dev/urandom to create this post.
On a side note, I thought the US was build on people coming from bad situations to live the American dream, you guys sure have changed your mindset lately.
If that was the case, there wouldn't be any complaints, because then they wouldn't be getting paid less. It's the fact that they're only temp workers that get paid up to 23 percent less than Americans in the same positions that cheeses people off. Level playing field--fine. Unfair playing field where management lies about not being able to find qualified personnel and then turns around and pays substantially lower salaries--not good.
Because it is not a free market in action; the H1B visa program effectively allows corporations to employ indentured servitude on foreign workers to lower wages for an entire industry. Everybody loses.
"Pro-American"? What is that even supposed to mean? Are you suggesting that all Democrats are anti-American and enter politics with the sworn goal of destroying the USA?
It's not a question of being for or against America or Americans. Both sides want America to be a strong and prosperous nation. The difference is in how they think that will be achieved. Do you focus on the very real needs of individual Americans, with the possible consequence of lengthening the economic troubles -- or do you try to strengthen American companies (possibly at the cost of American jobs in the short term) in order to get the economy back on track, at which point the employment market will improve for everyone?
It's an interesting question, and "No more immigration! American jobs for American workers!" is not a useful answer. Drop the jingoistic propaganda bullshit and focus on serious economics, please.
It's not an unfair playing field. Somebody is WILLING to work for less pay than you. You are the one who has to adapt. That's how a free market is supposed to work.
"You can't allow somebody to commit the crime before you detain them." [Condoleezza Rice]
...I have to basically sign an affidavit that I will pay the same rate to the foreign worker as a similarly qualified US worker, and I have to swear that I can't find anyone in the US to fill the job.
Employers who abuse the H1B system should be heavily fined (revenue going to H1B employee backpay and unemployment compensation for displaced citizens.) HR managers who authorized the abuse should find themselves out of a job, if not in jail. We can turn a blind eye to such abuse during boom times but now that the economy is damaged, the blame should not pass on to the abused foreign worker. Blame lies squarely with the abusive company. H1B is designed to backfill specialized skills. Two decades in the IT industry working across a variety of environments has convinced me that most job posts for N years using X framework/language/application/OS are shams. The fact that a recent change in EEOC labor laws encourages this practice. Here is how it works:
Company X needs a unix expert but they don't want to pay for one. So they find a particularly obscure newspaper and advertise that they are looking for 29-31 years of experience using Java 1.7 on RedHat RHEL 21. They get a number of (irritating) domestic applicants who've used Java 1.6 on OSX, Solaris or Ubuntu. They throw these in the bin and hire the H1B person, underpaying them.
For the non IT person, it's almost the equivalent of a taxi firm only hiring drivers who have experience driving 2001 Ford Galaxy vans with the 5.0 Liter V8 engine.
We should have a national website which advertises jobs which are about to go to an H1B applicant. Post it there for a month with all employee/employer correspondence logged and then I'd be happy to hand the job to a person from anywhere. H1B can work to keep jobs in the country. If it isn't abused it is much better for our economy than allowing a company to relocate or outsource.