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Long-Term PC Preservation Project?
failcomm writes "I've been talking with my son's (middle-school) computer lab teacher about a 'time capsule' project. The school has a number of 'retirement age' PCs (5-6 years old — Dells, HPs, a couple of Compaqs), and we've been kicking around the idea of trying to preserve a working system and some media (CDs and/or DVDs), and locking them away to be preserved for some period of time (say 50 years); to be opened by students of the future. The goal would be to have instructions on how to unpack the system, plug it into the wall (we'll assume everyone is still using 110v US outlets), and get the system to boot. Also provide instructions on how to load the media and see it in action; whether it is photos or video or games or even student programs — whatever. So first, is this idea crazy? Second, how would we go about packing/preserving various components? Lastly, any suggestions on how to store it long term? (Remember, this is a school project, so we can't exactly just 'freeze it in carbonite'; practical advice would be appreciated.)"
NO electronics are designed to last 50 years. If you got basically all the moisture out of the storage facility, everything but the storage devices MIGHT last, IF the temperature were stable enough. And at the end, you'd have a hermetically sealed container full of poison because odds are that the nasty crap would have come out of some of the capacitors anyway, and the plastic would have been offgassing all of this time, and your time capsule would probably be declared a superfund site.
Moral of the story: shoot some digital video of some people using the computers, then pack them off to the recyclers. Whether the exercise is worthy is not really at issue; it's not really a feasible idea anyway. The cost of preserving the machines (are you going to have shielding capable of protecting digital magnetic media over that time scale?) coupled with the risk of the systems not working when you try to fire them up anyway makes the whole point moot for most schools (and most anyone else, too.)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I think you're missing the point of the project. There's far more to computing than operating system and software. If the point was to show where virtualization was now to people 50 years ago, your idea is great, but the point is to remind people 50 years from now what kinds of computers we had that the average person used.
How uncool would everything be if you opened up a time capsule from the 80s and found out that it consisted of a polaroid picture of everything people wanted to put into the time capsule?
Instead of 50 years, make it 25 or 20. Then their kids can be in middle school and see the computer their folks used to use.
There are plenty of pc's made in 1984 that can still work fine.
Another idea... don't put it in an actual capsule at all.
Climate controlled closet, visual inspection of the system yearly, boot test every three years. Also, every year or two, fresh burns of optical media.
After glancing at many of the nay-sayers and upon this posting, I'd like to remind everyone that very few common instruments of man have been created to endure beyond the life of their users, and quite often they are a joy to be discovered, even if the most basic of happenstances occurs to keep them somewhat preserved.
Many solid state electronics last just fine for decades, nestled in their Styrofoam enclosures. I have personally seen a 1981 KayComp power up after being stashed under a desk for 25 years. I have little doubt it could have happily lasted another 25 down there. . . mercury and plastics gassing away.
The important thing is to offer reasonable protection and documentation. Your Media is going to be the first thing to go. . . so try and document how the media would have worked "IF" it works. Use Acid Free Mylar where possible to keep paper and media from reacting as much with the environment. Take reasonable steps to make sure the computers are packed away from light, (UV hasten the decomposition of plastics), dirt and moisture. Make sure they can be accessed without being damaged and create a reasonable storage scheme that is organized, minimal and well documented.
Essentially, do your best. Even if they don't power up in 50 years because they won't accept the wireless transmission of neo-voltage power used in that day and age, they will be marvels to students of that day. And people may figure out new pieces to apply to their lives in the future based on where we were going today. Also, if one "teacher" or child who has yet to be born, wants it bad enough, they'll figure out how to make them work, or have enough data from the specimens you try to preserve to make a model in their modern day.
Afterall, if I could see just pieces of something like Babbage's difference engine, it's a wonderful experience, even if it doesn't have any punch cards to fully work.
good luck
-Scribe of Argos
Wouldn't the capacitors be an issue on a TV that old? It's pretty common for old tube amps and pre-amps to have all the capacitors replaced by the audiophiles that buy them on ebay.
I sold an old tube pre-amp, and the guy said that if they don't replace them outright they'll hook up lightbulbs in series and slowly power up the device, using the lights to verify if the electrolytes are still good.
Pfft, more like 'Holy crap, this thing is fast! It boots in minutes, not hours! But where is the dna scanner that tells the government who the operator is?'.
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
Yeah, but personally relevant and educationally relevant are two different things. Punch cards are something that I would discuss as a historical aside in a high school computer science or programming or technology class, and I might trot some out just to show students how far we've come. That doesn't mean that I still use them to store data, or that I am a punch card fanatic.
Please look at this through the eyes of a teacher; the goal of this project is not to get students using old technology, but simply to give them some understanding of what their teachers had to learn on. I had a teacher in high school who had some old magnetic disks that apparently had to be immersed in a fluid. He showed those to me and some other interested students as novelties.
Imagine how cool it would be if your children or grandchildren could see what you had to live with, technology wise. Wouldn't that teach them something about history, or give them some understanding of how different our culture was compared to their culture? Essentially, is the goal of education to give a student some practical skills and then boot them out into the world, or do we want to give them a context for their skills?
This kind of activity is educationally relevant because it allows students to feel like they've contributed something to the world or done something cool. When it's unearthed it will be valuable because it gives their grandkids an understanding of what was technologically advanced in the past.
SRSLY.
People pull old Trash-80's or whatever out of closets and get them to work, and that's been 15-20 years maybe. Assuming the storage is kept cool and dry, I can't see any reason why the hardware wouldn't be usable after 50 years.
The reason is tin whiskers. Electronic devices and components made before RoHS requirements will far outlast anything made since then.
In other words, it's highly unlikely that in 15-20 years, anyone will pull a working PS3 or Xbox 360 (or Core 2 Duo-based PC) out of the closet.
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
Don't hard drives decay quickly if unused?
Also, you might want a cracked version of windows, Microsoft probably won't have the activation servers running in 50 years.
Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
lol i think you've missed the point of what the lightbulb does lol
The lightbulb acts as a current/voltage limiter. Picture this:
It's crude, but effective, and a trick electricians have been using for years.
(Caveat: the actual technical facts of the matter are somewhat more complicated than this, but given the quality of your comment I doubt you're capable of understanding them...)
What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?