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Long-Term PC Preservation Project?
failcomm writes "I've been talking with my son's (middle-school) computer lab teacher about a 'time capsule' project. The school has a number of 'retirement age' PCs (5-6 years old — Dells, HPs, a couple of Compaqs), and we've been kicking around the idea of trying to preserve a working system and some media (CDs and/or DVDs), and locking them away to be preserved for some period of time (say 50 years); to be opened by students of the future. The goal would be to have instructions on how to unpack the system, plug it into the wall (we'll assume everyone is still using 110v US outlets), and get the system to boot. Also provide instructions on how to load the media and see it in action; whether it is photos or video or games or even student programs — whatever. So first, is this idea crazy? Second, how would we go about packing/preserving various components? Lastly, any suggestions on how to store it long term? (Remember, this is a school project, so we can't exactly just 'freeze it in carbonite'; practical advice would be appreciated.)"
The problem I see with this is that you'd basically need to include instructions on how to operate every protocol as well as an independent power source to operate it.
The best bet would just be to include a laptop and a few solar chargers to power it. If the future world can't power a laptop with light for some reason... they don't deserve to look back into the past.
Perhaps that mineral oil which is used to keep CRAYs cool might work? Maybe just get a barrel of that, drop all of the components in, and seal it up.
I'm not sure how practical it will be for when it's opened, but it'll suffice for keeping the sucker preserved.
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No consumer electronics are designed to last 50 years. Unless you have been computing on a space probe, recycle the computers.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Keep multiple systems and monitors.
In 50yrs I think you'd have more problem porting the video out than anything else. Remove the batteries too.
Why not store 3 complete systems in 3 entirely different ways. Hoping that one of them will survive intact. Or components from all three will have enough intact to make a complete system. Let's assume that whoever finds it, even in a century will be intelligent enough to turn it on. Unless this ends up being an Old Man in the Cave sort of scenario. Then you've no hope anyway.
My uncle still fires up his Apple LISA every few months to do his accounting on it.
Even if you went to the effort of saying "The two leads need to be supplied with a sine-wave alternating current peaking at 115 Volts" you have no way of knowing that in 50 years they'll be using Volts, AC, two leads, or know what a sine-wave is.
Um, we're talking 50 years from now...not 500. Many of students who created the time capsule could even be the ones digging it up. There will be plenty of people who understand its power requirements. There will be plenty of people who even know how to operated the thing with proficiency.
In my experience, departments can be re-structured, staff get replaced, budgets get changed, buildings get remodelled, torn down, or re-purposed. Frankly, if you expect such a project to survive even 50 years you may have to do a bit of planning first. Figure out who is going to manage the whole thing; a system can't just be put in a closet in a classroom; find a central location (say, a large airtight, waterproof safe in the school library, labelled with a plaque, and get the school board, school paper, etc. informed about the project so that its existence is recorded in various ways. I'm sure that's just about the best you could do with your budget. I'd also not recommend preserving just one system, but probably several complete ones, maybe of varying age. If you got a couple of 286's with PC-DOS, a couple of Pentium II's with Windows 95, a couple of original iMacs with Mac OS 9, etc, that might be much more interesting than just one system, and surely it's better to have some redundancy in case one or more of the machines don't survive for some reason. And certainly include as much physical media with as wide of a variety of software as you can...floppy disks, CDs, DVDs, hard drives, zip disks, and perhaps best of all would be USB flash drives as these would be more likely to survive than optical or magnetic media, and unlike these, USB mass storage might be possible to read with computers with computers built in 2020 or even later. Miscellaneous tips: I wouldn't bother with any software that requires online activation, active internet connection, etc. I'm sure the internet will be quite different from how it is today, and even software giants like Adobe or Microsoft may be long forgotten in 2060. Make sure the systems POST without their clock batteries; these will surely be dead in 2060. Include as much paper documentation as you can. Manuals, quickstart guides, printed tutorials, anything. The documentation on this stuff might be very well preserved online in 2060. Or it might not.
Take off every sig. For great justice.
a few extra motherboards, most necessarily
it won't get you to 100 years, but assuming you pack away 4, and 2 die in the first 30 years, it will get you past 50 years at least
and, with hard work, and assuming nonoverlap in what part failed, you could cannibale parts to get at least one still working for a very long time
besides, even if they completely stop making capacitors, past 150 years, and all the caps fail, a capacitor isn't exactly a difficult component to troubleshoot, understand, or even make
at 150 years, there would be enough interest in building a new capacitor, and enough interest form antique historians to invest in the time to understand and trouble shoot the pc to keep the thing running
and at 200 years, it would probably even be worth a pretty penny
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Most of the EEPROMs used to store the BIOS code only have a rated data retention lifespan of 10 or 20 years. In 50 years, it would likely not even be able to boot.
But even should your EEPROM remain intact, the other problem is getting that hard drive spindle which has remained stationary for 50 years spinning again.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
Maybe they weren't designed to last that long, but they do, anyway. There are plenty of Apple IIs and TRS-80's out there, still running just fine. I have a 30+-year-old computer, myself, that still works. Granted, it's not 50 years, but it's getting pretty close.
Sit, Ubuntu, sit. Good dog.
Print out a copy of all the slashdot suggestions and include it. In 50 years they might have an idea of who was *Insightful* or *Full of it*.
This is true. But, I would hope that unpacking an actual system that is authentic and plugging in the components would be quite an experience. But for all I know, 6-7th graders will be bored out of their skull. Invite their parents along to open it. I bet it'll be the big kids that really dig it.
I dunno. Would there be any point in a 2009 PC without a 2009 internet to use it with?
But for every one of you there are a thousand or more turdbrain like the parent poster who absolutely believe that they are living in the most amazing era ever, and that by the simple fact of being alive in it makes them better than their forerunners. They masturbate furiously in their own feces thinking nobody will ever best them, and nobody will ever get the stupid idea out of the fecal matter they have in their skulls.
I'm packing some of my own shit in a time capsule, so that it can be smeared on the future clueless kids.
Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
What 1959 technology would you like to see run? A turntable? A TV? How about a Radio? We still have all those things, but now, they are cheaper (adjusted for inflation) and better.
So much of the experience of a current "computer" has nothing to do with the hardware, it's the content. So the virtualization ideas, etc have some merit.
50 years from now, how "cool" is old hardware going to be? Not very I expect. They will have better cheaper computers.
IMHO, you'd be better off including lots of pictures and printed material that will be usable, toss in some hw too, even if it won't work. In the end, I suspect an old yearbook will be more interesting than a computer.
Meh, that's just my 2 cents worth.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
This actually brings up perhaps the biggest problem with the project.Where will they find a battery for the bios?
While some bios will boot (to default settings) without a bios battery installed most will simply fail post, hard.
Will a battery, even still in the original packaging, even hold a charge for 50 years? If you look back, battery technology has advanced quite a bit in the last 50 years and there is every indication that this will continue for the next 50 years so getting a hold of the exact battery (or even a similar one) that the bios needs may be impossible.
Minne-snow-da: Winter is comming...
It would be better not to put them all in one place.
If you are going to get 200 CDs pressed, you'd do well to keep a few dozen of them in your capsule, and distribute the rest.
If it's a project at a school, insert a copy of the CD in the back of every copy of that year's yearbook. Make sure to send several copies of the yearbook with the CD insert to all the local libraries in the area. Chances are that will ensure that at least one of them will survive for 50 years. At least in my area, the libraries have yearbooks from all the local schools going back to the 40s, which I presume is when they started producing them. (They have class photos going back a lot further than that, too.)
In general, if you can make information interesting (or at least package it with something interesting), you can practically let other people do all the archival work for you.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
I agree about caps.
I once worked at a place that had dumb terminals that were going on five years old that were seriously flaky because of the capacitors. I managed to fix the situation by telling the users that when they turned off the terminal at the end of the day, they should set the entire thing upside down. The idea was to use gravity to redistribute enough of the electrolyte so that the dielectric performance was improved. It worked like a charm, although I got a unfortunate reputation for being something of a mad scientist. People who couldn't remember my name would refer to me as "that guy who had us turn our computers upside down because of those jelly-roll things."
So although it is a long shot, it might be worth storing the things upside down. In part this might counteract the migration of electrolyte that has occurred over the years, and when they unpack the thing and set it upright, it will counteract any migration of electrolyte that occurred during storage -- presuming any is left.
I wonder whether sealing the circuit boards in wax might help with the outgassing problem. There's an epoxy that is specifically designed for pouring over circuits, but wax could be undone after the capsule was opened -- although it would be messy.
In any case, the first step you should take is to restore the computers to as close to perfect working order as possible. You could desolder the capacitors and install brand new, high quality replacements. Also pay attention to connectors that need replacement. Then you should prepare the computers for storage. Speaking of connectors, it might be best to unplug as many connectors as possible, to prevent metal-to-metal reactions. Disassemble everything, leaving clear instructions about how to put them back together again.
The hard disks are bound to be a problem. Assuming the motherboard and power supply survive, I'd include a variety of media: CD-ROM, CF Card (yes, I know it's a long shot), maybe even 5" floppies with FreeDOS. Since you probably don't want to encourage kids to mess with VDTs, I'm not sure what you should do about preserving the CRTs. I'd consider an inexpensive LCD panel or maybe even one of those USB LED displays and set the computer up to display a welcome message if it boots up at all.
It occurs to me that it might be worth making the time capsule airtight, adding valves to it, then purging and pressurizing it (slightly) with a inert gas. Other than the shell, you could probably get most of what you need form a welding supply store. Purging the air of water, oxygen and miscellaneous pollutants would reduce the chemical degradation of the equipment. Pressurizing it might retard the outgassing problem for a few years. Although it is unlikely that the capsule would remain pressurized after decades, you'd have to put a warning on it if you don't want some future person to blow their head off. You probably should put a warning on the capsule anyway; I agree with the other poster who noted that after several decades, you could end up with a box of gaseous poisons, and I don't think people will become more careful about this sort of thing. They might be used to a world in which pollutants are more carefully regulated and recycled.
You could include a seal that the openers would break, with instructions to do outdoors and to give it a few hours for any contaminants to disperse.
Finally, there's a lot of educational value simply in researching the problem. Students should contact curators at museums which preserve and display antiquities, or which collect old technology.
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