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Senate Approves 4-Month Delay In Digital TV Switch

DJRumpy sends word that the US Senate has voted to delay the switch to digital TV until June. "The transition date would move to June 12 from February 17 under the bill that was fueled by worries that viewers are not technically ready for the Congressionally mandated switch-over. It would also allow consumers with expired coupons, available from the government to offset the cost of a $40 converter box, to request new coupons. The government ran out of coupons earlier this month, and about 2.5 million Americans are on a waiting list for them."

40 of 438 comments (clear)

  1. Ahh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And then it'll be December 17.

    1. Re:Ahh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      ..., 2035.

    2. Re:Ahh... by el+americano · · Score: 4, Informative

      Don't ignore the other aspect of this bill. As a holder of one of the 14 million expired coupons, I look forward to getting and using a new one. I requested so early, that it came in February, with an unexpected 3-month expiration period. For price and selection, I was motivated to wait as long as possible, and time ran out. My mistake, but if I get a second chance, I'll buy it right away.

      I'm unsure if it'll really happen, because the funding looks to have been spent, and there's a waiting list of people who didn't waste their coupon ahead of me, but it's in the article, so it must be true. [sign-up required, editor - or you can change your user-agent to be the googlebot.]

      --
      Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
    3. Re:Ahh... by Bootarn · · Score: 4, Informative

      I envy you.

      Here in Sweden, they switched us over without considering the signal coverage in the countryside. Analogue reception was already bad, and it's impossible to put these heavily distorted radio signals together into digital video frames. No, the viewers were not ready. No, the government didn't care.

      And no, they didn't offer coupons for set top boxes either.

  2. Just do it! by XanC · · Score: 4, Funny

    One motion! Right off!

    1. Re:Just do it! by matazar · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Seriously, I don't think this is that big of a deal.
      Just make the switch and stop those annoying commercials.

    2. Re:Just do it! by cashman73 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It really doesn't matter when they do it -- February, June, two years ago, two years from now. Either way, they'll still have 2 million clueless idiots cussing out at their TVs wondering what happened to their TV signal. And all of those 2 million will be technologically clueless senior citizens -- anyone under the age of, say, 40, already gets most of their TV from the internet, where it's on demand and there's far fewer commercials.

    3. Re:Just do it! by porcupine8 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When they finally do it, instead of shutting off all analog signal they need to make every station in the country broadcast a repeating message for a week explaining what happened and giving instructions plus a phone # to call for more details. That's about the only way to limit the number of angry phone calls that everyone from the electric companies to the stores that sold the remote controls will get.

      Amazingly, my technologically-handicapped grandmother actually noticed the commercials and listened to my dad when he told her about this, so she's fine - I, on the other hand, waited too long and am now on the dtv waiting list. (Though I also might use it as an excuse to upgrade to hd.)

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    4. Re:Just do it! by DigiShaman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm on the fence on this.

      On one had, the economy has tanked which leave people with little to no disposable income. I can imagine some canceling their cable/sat account and going with just over the air programming. By having a four month extension, this will be helpful while the economy rebounds (if it all by that time).

      On the other hand however. By forcing people to switch now, it will force people to start purchasing. Having a healthy economy starts with flow and exchange of money from person to person.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    5. Re:Just do it! by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm on the fence on this.

      I'm on the fence about whether or not the change is worthwhile -- by all accounts the digital transmissions have worse reception and worse issues with multipath -- but if we accept that it's worthwhile it seems to me that we should stop stonewalling the change. Just get it over with already. Or cancel it and tell Verizon and AT&T to go pound sand (like they were ever gonna give us a third pipe anyway). Either way make a decision already.

      They could delay it for 10 more years and there'd still be people out there that have no clue until the TV stops working and a big graphic comes on that explains why it stopped working.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    6. Re:Just do it! by AuMatar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And if we hire a thousand kids to throw rocks at windows, it will stimulate the economy by forcing the purchase of new windows!

      Forcing people to buy things they don't need or want with no benefit to them won't stimulate the economy- it will force dollars away from useful purchases to useless ones. It harms the economy, not boosts it.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    7. Re:Just do it! by David+M.+Andersen · · Score: 5, Informative

      Obligatory Wikipedia page explaining this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

    8. Re:Just do it! by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Informative

      >>>TV Stations can still switch to digital early if they want to.

      You're about the 10th person on this forum to say that, and it's not true. KSNC received a *waiver* from the FCC due to antenna damage. Other stations have asked for waivers because of economic hardship. Without these waivers they would still be required to continue broadcasting analog.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    9. Re:Just do it! by Daa · · Score: 5, Informative

      one problem right now is many DTV signals are not being transmitted at their final full power because they are being sent from temporary transmitters and in many cases on different frequencies than then their final assignment. the stations will switch transmitters and frequencies when the switchover is made.So looking at DTV today does not necessarily tell what the signal will look like after the changeover.

    10. Re:Just do it! by SuperQ · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It is worthwhile. For this one reason. Gigawatts.

      Using data from the FCC, http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html I calculated the sum total effective radiated power of all TV stations in the US.

      Total for ATV: 3.6 GW
      Total for DTV: 1.5 GW

      Savings before you factor in transmitter efficiencies: 2.1 GW.

      I have no idea what the real efficiency of a TV transmitter is, but if it were 80% input to ERP you get about 4.5 GW of energy used to keep running ATV.

      Over the 115 day extension that's 12.3 Terawatt-hours.

    11. Re:Just do it! by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      by all accounts the digital transmissions have worse reception and worse issues with multipath

      Just to add a datapoint for you. I'm in a large city (NYC) with a big building blocking the path to midtown where the antennas are... analog gave me almost no reception - certainly nothing clear. Using the same antenna I get most of the major networks. The signal sometimes drops out a little and I get those funny digital artifacts or lose the sound for a second, but not often enough to sour the average ball game or sitcom. We NEVER watched analog TV because of the quality, but now we'll occasionally fire up the TV.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    12. Re:Just do it! by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Funny

      Over the 115 day extension that's 12.3 Terawatt-hours.

      What's that in burning-libraries-of-congress?

      C'mon man, use STANDARDS.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    13. Re:Just do it! by kent_eh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have no idea what the real efficiency of a TV transmitter is, but if it were 80% input to ERP you get about 4.5 GW of energy used to keep running ATV.

      Given that a TV transmitter is mostly just a huge power amplifier, and in my experience most of the higher powered ones contain at least a couple of tubes*, I'd be surprised if the efficiency got over 50%
      As a matter of fact, it looks like it's lower than that. Take a look and do your own math.

      * Why tubes in this day and age?
      They are a proven reliable way of amplifying up to 100s of kilowatts. Transistor amplifiers get very complex even as low as 10KW (the biggest solid state transmitter I've personally worked on). And when they fail it usually takes out dozens, if not hundreds of components. Replacing a pair of final amplifier tubes, and maybe a capacitor after a lightning strike can get you back on the air in an hour or 2.

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    14. Re:Just do it! by Skapare · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually it is true. Early in the transition, waivers were needed. Towards the end, this was eliminated. You might want to read some details here.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    15. Re:Just do it! by AngelofDeath-02 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wish I shared your experience. I live in Phoenix and i can't even walk across the living room without interrupting the signal. Also, instead of getting partial snow or a possibly wavy picture you get nothing, or at best blocks of your picture.

      My solution? Download them. I watch two shows and I can buy the dvd's when the next season starts.

      --
      No, I am not an English major. My posts are subject to typos and incorrect grammar. Do not expect perfection.
    16. Re:Just do it! by beckerist · · Score: 4, Informative

      Duh. That wasn't it. In my haste I posted a dumb link. I found a lot more info here: http://www.tvfool.com/

  3. Bad Move by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This a bad move by an equally mismanaged program. They say that there was not enough funding for the demand for coupons, but then the number of coupons exceeds the estimate of TVs receiving through broadcast signals. Most of those boxes are now for sale on eBay. And this does not even touch on the lobbying from the cable industry and other vested $$$ interests. Bad move.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Bad Move by sribe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also, I went online and requested my coupons very early in the process, well over a year ago. (What the heck, the gov't wants to use my tax dollars to hand out free converter boxes, I'll take one!) I never received any coupons. I wonder how many of these expired coupons were never actually sent out because some contractor did not actually ever put them in the mail.

  4. I'd rather they just pulled the plug... by Firethorn · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One of my stations switched recently anyways; other than telling my TV to check for a digital station on that channel, no issues. Picture improved, though it's pretty obvious that they're merely feeding it an analog signal through a converter for now.

    While I'd push more funding in for the coupons; I have the feeling that many/most on that list don't actually need a box. Talking with various people, there's a lot getting them 'just in case' even though they get cable/dish. For that matter, I bought one for my CRT TV about a month before a great deal had me buying a new LCD TV.

    The final point I'd have is that, at this point, delaying the switch won't get you that many more digital capable homes - many are procrastinating, and will continue to do so until they can't get broadcast TV.

    Meanwhile I'd like to see those applications for the freed up bandwidth to actually happen. Of course, I saw on conspiracy theory that those wanting a delay have or are looking to bring out competing products.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  5. Will this change anything? by fo0bar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm not talking about the "will delaying the transition allow everybody who has been ignoring the constant barrage of ads to ignore them some more" debate. February 17 is (soon to be "was") a date all broadcasters must stop BY. It doesn't mean you have (had) to stop ON that date. A local broadcaster actually just turned off their analog tower yesterday.

    I'm wondering if many broadcasters will just choose to switch over on the 17th anyway, as the ball is already rolling, so to speak. It'd probably cost them a decent amount of money and wasted resources not to go ahead with the original plan.

    (I could be wrong; there could be wording in the bill forcing broadcasters to wait off.)

  6. Just transmit in B&W the last 90 days by Hadlock · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Seriously, if you're watching TV and your color TV suddenly is B&W on every channel, and so is your buddy's, even the clueless idiot is going to drag his ass to the TV asile of walmart and start asking questions. You still get TV, and HDTV is avalible, but SDTV is black and white which will prompt people to go to the store and at least consider a HD tuner.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
  7. How many by Darth_brooks · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So how many of those 2.5 million are scammers and huckesters who are bilking the elderly and inept as we muddle through this insane clusterfuck? This mess is enough to turn the most die hard quasi-socialist into a small government, free market libertarian in the span of about 7 seconds.

    Plus, now I've got to deal with four more months of commercials regarding this switch....ON MY CABLE FUCKING TV!!!! yeah, thanks comcast, thank you for reminding me every 29 seconds that the DTV switch is coming.

    I need to drink more.

    --
    There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
  8. This is good. by Alien+Being · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The cable companies have been using the February switchover as subterfuge for their own plans.

    For about a year, Comcast have been advertising that their customers can "keep on watching their favorite shows" after the switch with no changes needed. Very recently, the wording of their ads changed. Now all they say is that if you use their set-top-box, then you're covered.

    I decided to call them and ask for the real answer.

    Me: I see that you've changed the wording in your ads. Will my service change in February?

    Comcast: blah blah blah blah affected blah blah.

    Me: Would you please repeat that?

    Comcast: blah blah blah blah affected blah blah.

    Me: Wait. Will I be affected, or will I not be affected?

    Comcast: You will be affected.

    Me: How?

    Comcast: You will lose some channels.

    Me: Really! Which ones?

    Comcast: We don't know yet.

    Me: Well, how many channels will I lose?

    Comcast: Between 7 and 10.

    Me: I see. For a year you've been lying to us and you still won't tell us the truth. By the way, why does the Comcast have to change anything?

    Comcast: We don't. The timing is coincidental.

    Me: Fuck you!

    1. Re:This is good. by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Comcast is trying like hell to eliminate the analog lineup. They can then force you to pay extra for EVERY TV by forcing a cable box rental. The upper management has been drooling over this for over 4 years and this in fact has been planned for a while now. Most places that have comcast will be FORCED over to the digital boxes by the end of 2010. At least those were the plans I saw in one of the last meetings I was in on back in 2005. They get a rate cut from the content providers by encrypting everything. Plus they get to fire 70% of the installer workforce as they no longer need to roll a truck for a disconnect. They simply shut off your boxes.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  9. PBS by 787style · · Score: 4, Informative

    PBS claimed that delaying the conversion would cost them $22 million. Is that a check we have to write now lest we get sued?

  10. Old buggers by tdwMighty · · Score: 3, Funny

    The old buggers in the Senate probably just figured out how to work a DVD player and now are too afraid of the change to digital TV.

    --
    read some interesting stuff at mightyinteresting.com
  11. Advertising dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The media is scared shitless that millions of households won't have converter boxes installed by the Feb. date, which, coincidentally, is during one of the "sweeps weeks" for broadcasters. Millions of eyeballs not able to watch tv will mean several millions in lost advertising revenue in a time when tv is already showing declining viewership among the more coveted demographics. Broadcasters prefer putting off the deadline till the beginning of summer when most everything on tv are reruns and viewership is at its lowest.

    1. Re:Advertising dollars by UserChrisCanter4 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not really. First off, Sweeps is a month-long period, not a week. Also, March 2009, not February as usual, is sweeps month for this exact reason. It just made sense not to try and accurately gauge viewership in the middle of a changeover.

  12. NOOOOOOO!!!! by pjbgravely · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have been waiting for 3 years for this change over.

    Most of the stations I receive will increase their digital streanth. One channel will change frequency and I need to know if I can get that one or I will have to point the antenna to another city.

    --
    Star Trek, there maybe hope.
  13. Re:Just do it!/done did it by zogger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Worked out better for us. Don't know about the economy overall, but for us it was a deal, it made it so the old set is still functional, and it improved it immensely! Like a really good cheap upgrade! Got the coupon, bought a zenith 901 converter, and we get more stations now and they come in *clear*, out in north cow flop rural Georgia. Before, stations were all fuzzy, none of them clear, plus we picked up PBS, which we couldn't get at all before. Granted, you can *not* screw with the antenna once it is set, but once you have it adjusted ~just so~, it's great, the old tube has the best picture evar, like watching a disk. That's a dollars-intangible personal subjective improvement, but the lessening of the fuzzy stations annoyance factor has some net worth. And that is just using indoor rabbit ears! And despite other folks anecdotals, we haven't experienced much in the way of bad weather dropouts.

      The only thing I don't like about the digital conversion is, we have two old battery portable units to use for during power outtages, and there are few replacements for those on the market yet and all spendy (compared to 15 dollar analog portable sets you can get still). There's a market niche that needs to be filled, I am sure many other people would like to have a portable digital TV in the affordable category. If I have to I'll just get another converter and run both devices from a 12 volt battery and an inverter. I have that rig now but use it for my laptop when the power goes out.

      With that said, I wish the government would just broadcast a plain vanilla constantly updated local weather radar scan (that can be analog on some locked assigned frequency maybe), the weather radios don't quite cut it without that visual. That would be another improvement.

      So, for some small spending, cash out of pocket plus my citizen tax payer share of the proceeds from the public spectrum auction in the form of the converter coupon, we get much better TV quality, and more stations, without having to purchase a new TV or go to monthly big bill satellite TV. Is that good or bad for the economy? For us it was a good enough deal. And who knoweth but maybe the freed up spectrum (the other 1/2 of the digital conversion package that will be used somehow) might go to someone getting wireless broadband that works out here, lead pipe cinch there isn't going to be anything wired ever run, no company is going to run anything decent for more than a mile to maybe pickup a total of six households, just ain't never gonna happen. And that is roughly 15% of the nation that still can't get any sort of broadband. And the benefits of broadband/internet are well understood. I use the net all the time to look stuff up we need for farming (just the amount of crap that breaks and needs new parts makes online shopping worthwhile) or to research things for my various geekier projects, saves a ton of time and driving around expense and cash dollars when we go to spend them. Dialup is good enough for that (although more expensive than most peoples broadband now), but for keeping a linux distro updated (or even getting the distro downloaded) it is the pits though...

    I was actually looking forward to the overall big digital switch day, to see if we got even more channels as the stations went more power. We have an outside mast antenna, but it is more or less whipped and dysfunctional, if the big changeover goes very well, I will consider getting a rotor and a newer antenna to max out the freebie viewing experience (brand/make/model suggestions from anyone knowledgeable gratefully accepted).

  14. What about the lease space by WillRobinson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And that space that was sold in the auction? Is the government going to reimburse the people who purchased the leases on this space that will be continued to be used? I smell another bailout..

    1. Re:What about the lease space by matthewd · · Score: 3, Informative

      Their licenses will get extended the 116 days the switchover is delayed:

      US Senate passes bill to delay digital TV switch

      There is an interesting politics as usual angle to this too:

      Chicago politics lands in DC

  15. Karma sacrifice (Re:Just do it!) by peektwice · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Horse shit, there is no fence. These assholes (government, network TV, viewers) have had four years to get ready for this. Anyone dragging their feet over a $49US converter box is just a lazy shit-bum. Remember folks, TV is a luxury item that you don't need. It shouldn't be subsidized. If you want to continue watching it, get a converter. Simple as that. You've all had ample time to get the converter. The fact that 2.5 million people are on the waiting list tells me that there are 2.5 million lazy sons-of-bitches that will NEVER get with the program as long as there are delays. Remember when Al Gore said we had ten years to fix global warming? These same fuckers are waiting for the government delay on that too.

    --
    Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
  16. Because of Clearwire vs. LTV carriers. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not trolling but honestly, why was this article flagged as corruption?

    Because Obama's adviser on the DTV transition was an executive VP at Clearwire, which (with Sprint) is rolling out a WiMAX network. The competition (notably Verizon) is about to roll out LTE on the bandwidth being freed by the DTV transition (which they bought at auction for billions.)

    Delaying the DTV transition for months delays the LTE rollout ditto, while Clearwire captures more market share and the competitors' capital is locked up in useless assets that are producing no revenue.

    See this slashdot article for more.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  17. Re:There should be no coupons, period. by WiiVault · · Score: 3, Informative

    When the government sells the spectrum and makes money they should certainly use some of that money to assist people in upgrading. I mean when they brokered the deal they certainly budgeted for it.