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IBM Hides the Bodies, Eyes US Government Billions
theodp writes "As his company was striving to hide the bodies of its laid-off North American workers, IBM CEO Sam Palmisano stood beside President Barack Obama and waxed patriotic: 'We need to reignite growth in our country,' Palmisano said. 'We need to undertake projects that actually will create jobs.' While Sam positions IBM to get a slice of the $825 billion stimulus pie, Big Blue is quietly cutting thousands of jobs and refusing to release the numbers or locations, arguing that SEC disclosure rules don't apply since the US job cuts are immaterial in its big global picture. The layoffs included hundreds in East Fishkill, coming early in the year after NY taxpayers paid IBM $45 million not to cut additional jobs in East Fishkill in 2008. Some are questioning whether IBM incentives are worth the cost."
Ever got fired for workign for IBM...
It is far better to cut off a dying limb than to have the infection seep back into the whole body.
If the division was in such a pathetic state that the state had to beg IBM not to cut it in good times, is it any surprise that IBM decided to cut it in the bad times?
Business isn't charity, no matter what those enlightened European countries may believe.
this is why using tax payers money to solve private businesses problems is never right. at most issue low interest short term loans to ease cash flow issues. never just wholesale billion dollar give aways because it'll slide right into the CEO's and exec's pockets.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
...to the pork barrel highboard, his company has been making billons for decades, but thinks it can screw some more in 'this time of need'.
He steps over the bodies of the fallen, leaps into the air and does a perfect belly flop into the barrel, with a belly laugh for effect - he'll get good style marks for that.
Sixes from five of the judges,only a 5.7 from China and billions for a wealthy corporation! Sam's gotta be pleased with that result.
If he's the Walrus then can I be a penguin please?
Last time they left bodies in their wake, the Allies found most of them...
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/
Even in the linked article, they're only questioning how much to pay IBM -- not whether to pay them. It amazes me that local officials do this so often, when there's no real proof these sorts of incentives are a net gain. Localities pay hundreds of millions of dollar for sports team's stadiums and get no direct profit sharing, cities offer multi-million dollar packages - or in Seattle's case, even build an egregious trolley line - for businesses and don't even pretend to have a measure of the monetary benefit to the community for the given initial outlay. I always wonder how much these pointless incentives come from honest incompetence versus corruption of the government officials.
"what are good jobs to be in at these times?"
In a good future (defined as long recession, possible, but liveable depression): property & business lawyers, accountants, small time tradesmen like electricians and plumbers, government workers in countries where governments are still working, nurses.
In a bad future (defined as Mad Max-style Fallout 3 depression): outlaw motorcycle club sergeant-at-arms, Marine Corps platoon leader, gang leader.
"What are good skills to have at these times?"
In a good future: whatever skills are good now and have been in the past. This runs the gamut from liberal arts like history and philosophy to technical streams like programming, basic accounting, mathematics, etc.
In a bad future: social skills, electrical engineering skills (electronics, electrical repair, solar and other home energy tech, communications), animal husbandry, combat shooting skills, gunsmithing/mech eng/chemistry or chem eng for both ammo production, but also other areas like water and sanitation, farming.
So is IBM the bad guy now I just need to know before I comment.
Jonathanjk.com
...they're so disorganized and flat-out dishonest with their employees that I say screw giving them any incentives, stimulus, or any other kind of special help. They need none.
All IBM has done since Gerstner is coast, layoff, reorg, and outsource. No significant new technology, major divestitures (heck, we sold off our entire networking arm to AT&T). The first thing Palmissano did in his video address after taking over as CEO is tell sales "don't let the engineers tell you no". Great idea - it led to vaprous announcements, selling technology we couldn't produce, and atrophied all of our internal systems, investment, and talent. Growth targets are consistently at bubble levels to ensure no one gets reasonable bonuses, and in the lead up to the firings in Fishkill managers were told to downrate employees on their PBC's to limit severance payments.
And no, I wasn't one of the ones laid off. If I had a better nest egg I might welcome it, freeing me from that blasted place. In the meantime, I have a family to support...
Did you ever think that these huge corporations would perform just as well, or even better, if top executives didn't exist, or just never did anything? So, if the company has good products and the economy is good, it prospers. And if the economy is bad, or the products are bad, the company suffers. That's what a company without top brass with golden parachutes, would do. The absurdly overpaid executives should be the ones who can turn a company around, whose leadership actually makes a difference.
But, as we could see with the big 3 car manufacturers and basically every big publicly traded company (in private companies you can bet your sweet ass that there's an owner that will keep an eye on the managers), executives don't do a lick of a difference. When times are tough, these companies tank - and ask for bailouts.
It's a bailout for incompetence, and Obama's administration would be foolish to support them. But it's too late - from the way the big 3 car manufacturers have been bailed out, I see more incompetence being rewarded.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Forge a revolutionary Leninist-Trotskyist workers party! Sweep away capitalist anarchy and barbarism with international socialist revolution!
M1 Carbines for the US, and Holleriths for the Nazis? What a brilliant business strategy! European explosive manufacturers made tons of money supplying both Iran and Iraq during their war in the 1980's. But I guess you're not supposed to do this if your country is on one side of the conflict.
I suppose that IBM would claim that the Nazis had taken over the subsidiary, and that IBM in the US had no control over it. I believe that Ford and GM (Opel) had the same problem with their subsidiaries, and faced the same allegations after the war.
If the case in the book is so strong, why hasn't anyone sued IBM over it?
"Hey, Daryl McBride! Here's your chance to try to sue IBM again!"
Or maybe some militant animal rights groups can sue them over this: http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_4506VV2154.html
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
The incentives don't appear to work as several states have already found out. Invariably, companies receiving these incentives do not hold up their end of the bargain. And yet this practice continues. This is a kind of socialism too. Where's the outrage?
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
Who is the most inefficient? Government workers! People who have no accountability, can steal money from taxpayers at a whim, and possess no real incentive to ever to a good job or improve themselves. So now that companies have gotten large enough to fail, the dumbest of all are taking them over. This will lead to greater failure because it is sucking in money from better people. Russia tried this approach, and the people starved... Americans are fat, but how long will we last when our bread lines run dry? Governemnt control of business has always failed, and will always fail. Obama is 100% wrong to "bail out" any company. Bush was no better since he did the same thing. We all knew W was a dummy the first time he opened his mouth, but Obama seemed a bit brighter.
Let the companies go under. Others are waiting to pick up the pieces and start fresh. If you are about to be laid off, sorry, but you are free to start your own business. If you had a brain you'd be working on it now instead of bitching. You don't need big college degrees to make a business. Get good at something and charge for your service.
This is the problem when government does not place restrictions on a bailout package. Our government wrote a blank check on us to bailout the results of extreme corporate greed and stupidity. It was incredibly assinine to think that trading mortgages like securities was a good idea. And, now, Uncle Sam turns around like the patient older parent and says, "Oh it's okay .... we forgive you .... here is an 820b allowance." This money should *not* have gone to corporations but should go towards keeping people in their homes. This is the key to beginning recovery. I must say that I am severely disappointed in Obama not seeing this fundamental fact. We should have let these greedy corporations fold under their own weight. We have set a dangerous precedence now for future troubled economic times wherein corporations can say, "Hey, you helped us before!", as an argument for more welfare.
The claim that their German subsidiary was taken over by the state is a little shaky; Not only were the same management left in place but they continued to report to Thomas Watson in New York throughout the war. Most importantly, after the war they recovered the profits made selling and maintaining punch card machines for the holocaust.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
I just don't understand why any American wants to work for IBM. Granted, these days, any job is godsend. But in a year or so, this recession will be over and IBM will probably start growing again, like other tech companies. I have little respect for any American who accepts a job at IBM, given a choice. Years ago I used to work there, and I never got the sense that IBM appreciated its American workers.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Man, the way they keep printing that money, I'm not really sure if I want to work for it any more. I mean, what's it going to be worth in 5 years? Why bother?
I'm going to make a still and go back to bartering. This money stuff is a total rip off.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
First IBM manages to post a 'strong quarter' (though in depth analysis by some indicates serious problems underscoring the superficially nice summary).
Then, the CEO sends an email to the whole company saying while other companies are cutting back, IBM is going to be different because they think it is important to invest long term in its people because IBM can afford to.
The next day, they execute the first wave of layoffs.
As layoffs continue, they try to say things about 'accelerating workforce rebalancing through resource actions' to pretend it is somehow different from everyone else. Notably, they have architected the whole thing it so that they feel disclosing the details to the SEC is not required.
I guess it may be different, maybe IBM is trying to finally achieve a goal under the smokescreen of recession-induced lay-offs. They are ditching people in the US with high years of service as they reduce numbers to allow for future overseas growth *despite* relying chiefly upon the US market for revenue still.
I still work at IBM (for the moment), but this recent activity has really frustrated me. The BS is so transparent and yet they shovel it on us anyway. If IBM were at least forthcoming about it, I might retain some shred of respect, but they are being so slimy about it.
My conflict is lack of viable choice in my area and in the industry. Doing in-house IT for various companies has lacked the technical challenge I want, as well as a salary ceiling that goes with that level of expectation. Small business/startups are even less certain than IBM employment. Other healthy hardware providers don't tend to volunteer to help with complex application of the gear. I guess HP would be the other candidate, but they aren't any better and aren't where I live.
What were the German IBM managers supposed to do? Say "no" to Hitler??? I don't think that would have worked.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Credit can appear and disappear relatively quickly without causing rampant inflation. That doesn't mean the total money supply can simply increase forever without doing so. Be very careful overgeneralising from the last decade. I think there's a specific reason we've gotten away with it for so long, which is China. They willingly hoarded ever more of our dollars and tied their currency to ours. Part of the reason is because they hold so many US dollars, if they tried to circulate them they'd become almost worthless. If they ever call in our debts by spending those dollars, we are in big trouble.
Last I checked, the Japanese had the highest amount of US dollar holdings. Or did the PRC suddenly gobble up the extra few hundred billion that were desperately necessary?
Printing money is not a smart idea, but at least it's an improvement. I know my money has some value, unlike batering, where you're never quite sure what you'll end up with.
I'll tell you what - you give me a few suitcases of that soon to be worthless money, I'll give you some worthless goods in exchange (perhaps some brightly colored beads?), and we'll call it even.
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
Frankly, yes. They did have a choice, even if none of the outcomes of that choice were particularly pleasant.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
So it's not just China, rather Japan and China.
Nobody is proposing to abolish money and go back to bartering. I'm not even sure this stimulus is such a terrible idea, maybe it will work (though we'll never really known either way). What worries me is we've been doing this since the 80's (Reagan), long enough to know that even in good times, we never quite get around to repaying the debt we rationalize in the bad times. Where will it end?
That's what the parent is saying. China keeps their take from sales of cheap stuff mostly in US banks... the same ones that turn around and put the money back into loans for high interest credit cards and ARM home loans.
In a sense it was their money that fueled the housing boom... People borrowed to buy more stuff. Which increased Chinese profits and they make the money available to borrow so interest stays low. It works well until the bankers screw it up by fixing the books.. because they are "competing" to turn sub-prime 5% loans into 20% plus returns to investors.. take a guess how long that lasted?
What were the German IBM managers supposed to do? Say "no" to Hitler???
Yes. Yes, they were.
Banks create money on a grand scale, and contrary to what people would expect, it doesn't cause rampant inflation.
You mean, US banks print money on a grand scale, and trade that money for real goods from foreign nations who never redeem them for American made goods because they'd rather trade them back and forth for oil, so the devaluation effects are never felt in the US?
Sorry, that was last millennium. This is the new millennium. The money is starting to come home. Those greenbacks are now bad cheques that MUST bounce, and so protectionism is the new order of the day.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
I'll tell you what - you give me a few suitcases of that soon to be worthless money, I'll give you some worthless goods in exchange (perhaps some brightly colored beads?), and we'll call it even.
Replace the beads with rare earth magnets and spools of copper wire for my turbines and motors, throw in a cow, some chickens and some tempered glass to expand my aquaponic setup and you've got a deal.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
I want an aquapony too.
Hate to break it to you, but the commodities bubble has already gone bust. Dollars and Yen are the only things going up in value these days.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.